sighted in my deer guns tonight

[northernvalk]

If the point of tags available is to manage the herd only the does matter.  When spring comes if you have fifty does and five bucks you will have fifty pregnant does.   If you have a hundred bucks and fifty does you will still have fifty pregnant does.  

Exactly, that is why we can only get 1 buck now. A buck will breed itself to death. The doe to buck ratio here in my 2 counties I hunt is about 6 to 1 which is pretty healthy. A buck can easily breed 6 does. I would like to see it get down to around 4 to 1 but then you have too many bucks competing for territory and breeding rights. You end up with injured and or dead bucks. So I think a 6 to 1 ratio is good.

But the point is not all bucks should be breeding...you need bigger bucks to push the younger "family " members away to mix the gene pool and keep the weaker bucks from breeding. 6 does to one breeding buck is great, but the next couple generations need to be prevented from breeding until they are ready. I think 2 or three to one breeds a stronger here from what I've read.  I remember reading an article about a ranch in Texas that tries to keep the ratio around 2 to one and it was pumping out monsters iirc. I know that two many brothers and sisters are breeding around here(insert joke here) and it's leading to poor genetics and very small deer. Lots of deer, but not healthy.

I may not like your view on guns in America but you are very knowledgeable about deer hunting and hunting in general.  we have a small population of piebald deer on one of the properties I hunt. With any luck we will take a couple out. It's even said to be a 10 point albino running the same property. Albino and piebalds normally have genitic deformations,  like sunken skulls and poor bone structure so we really do not want them passing those genes along.

I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot, I am glad we can have an informative conversation on one of the topics I love most, shooting and hunting.
We did get a moose two weeks ago, that takes a lot of the pressure off for deer season, if we can get 3 for the 6 of us hunting, if be happy.  Moose meat is much better than dear imho.

[Gavin_Sons]

It's an interesting theory but has holes in it.  Deer tags are not issued based upon the genetic quality of the bucks.  So long as bucks are available as targets the hunters will prefer and wait for the bigger, healthier males.  That runs counter to the thought of maintaining the genetically superior breeders.

Deer tags historically have only concerned themselves with numbers.  Only the doe tags have any impact on the intended result.  

Your right willow, in areas where buck and doe tags are controlled, but here there is no control on buck tags and VERY few doe tags issued. the results are most big bucks have been harvested and since only buck tags can be gotten, the smaller bucks get hammered also. So we end up with a few 1-2 year old bucks breeding with cousins/sisters. That gets compounded by people being able to use a doe tag on bucks. I'm not a trophy hunter. We hunt for meat. Big racks are cool but I'd rather have the size of the average animal larger.
 

I trophy hunt but take 2 or 3 does every year. Last day of season i may take a smaller buck just for meat.

[fudgie]

Ive seen a lot more bucks this yr then previous. Esp hit on the road. 2-1 on does.

[Varmintmist]

Curious,  where does the bullet hit at 100 yards if sighting in at 200 yards dead center? 

With about any bolt action deer rifle, if you set it about 1.5 high at 100, you will be pretty close to zero at 200. Another way to go is Maximum Point Blank Range. You sight your rifle in to where the bullet will not go over the plane of the point of aim more than 3 inches. The max range is where the bullet then drops to 3 in below the point of aim. Figure a whitetails vitals are a 6 in area and there ya go. Bigger critter, longer MPBR. After about 270-300 you still need to dope in holdover.
You can get a chart, or use a online ballistics chart, to get a more refined number, but the only way to be dead on at any range is to shoot that range.
This is my favorite https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/ The better the input, the closer the estimation will be.
If you dont have a cronograph, and you are shooting factory, you can find their speed on the box or the webs. More than likely, they are shooting from a 24" bbl, so you can adjust down a bit for every inch your hunting rifle is.

[northernvalk]

Curious,  where does the bullet hit at 100 yards if sighting in at 200 yards dead center? 

With about any bolt action deer rifle, if you set it about 1.5 high at 100, you will be pretty close to zero at 200. Another way to go is Maximum Point Blank Range. You sight your rifle in to where the bullet will not go over the plane of the point of aim more than 3 inches. The max range is where the bullet then drops to 3 in below the point of aim. Figure a whitetails vitals are a 6 in area and there ya go. Bigger critter, longer MPBR. After about 270-300 you still need to dope in holdover.
You can get a chart, or use a online ballistics chart, to get a more refined number, but the only way to be dead on at any range is to shoot that range.
This is my favorite https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/ The better the input, the closer the estimation will be.
If you dont have a cronograph, and you are shooting factory, you can find their speed on the box or the webs. More than likely, they are shooting from a 24" bbl, so you can adjust down a bit for every inch your hunting rifle is.

Correct.  I did assume that anyone asking this question would be shooting factory ammo....if you hand load, this "lesson" was more than likely learned at the beginning our your shooting lifetime.  It is A LOT harder to shoot at 300 yards, especially for sighting, and other factors need to be doped in, so sighting at the initial point the ballistic arch crosses your sight line will get you very close and give you confidence out to 250-300 depending on cartridge/rifle.  I have fired on a range up to 800 meters, but most hunters have never taken a shot over 300 yards and few would even consider it. For the "average" hunter/shooter, 200-300 is a LONG way. I wouldn't recommend anyone shoot those kind of distances without significant training and practice, but that's the fun part anyway!!! So get out there and heat up some brass, nothing beats pratice and there isn't much more fun than shooting, and the feeling when you explode that milk jug at 400+ yards is exhilarating!!!!

[Gavin_Sons]

Curious,  where does the bullet hit at 100 yards if sighting in at 200 yards dead center? 

With about any bolt action deer rifle, if you set it about 1.5 high at 100, you will be pretty close to zero at 200. Another way to go is Maximum Point Blank Range. You sight your rifle in to where the bullet will not go over the plane of the point of aim more than 3 inches. The max range is where the bullet then drops to 3 in below the point of aim. Figure a whitetails vitals are a 6 in area and there ya go. Bigger critter, longer MPBR. After about 270-300 you still need to dope in holdover.
You can get a chart, or use a online ballistics chart, to get a more refined number, but the only way to be dead on at any range is to shoot that range.
This is my favorite https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/ The better the input, the closer the estimation will be.
If you dont have a cronograph, and you are shooting factory, you can find their speed on the box or the webs. More than likely, they are shooting from a 24" bbl, so you can adjust down a bit for every inch your hunting rifle is.

Correct.  I did assume that anyone asking this question would be shooting factory ammo....if you hand load, this "lesson" was more than likely learned at the beginning our your shooting lifetime.  It is A LOT harder to shoot at 300 yards, especially for sighting, and other factors need to be doped in, so sighting at the initial point the ballistic arch crosses your sight line will get you very close and give you confidence out to 250-300 depending on cartridge/rifle.  I have fired on a range up to 800 meters, but most hunters have never taken a shot over 300 yards and few would even consider it. For the "average" hunter/shooter, 200-300 is a LONG way. I wouldn't recommend anyone shoot those kind of distances without significant training and practice, but that's the fun part anyway!!! So get out there and heat up some brass, nothing beats pratice and there isn't much more fun than shooting, and the feeling when you explode that milk jug at 400+ yards is exhilarating!!!!

250-300 yards are pretty intimidating to someone who has never shot that far. I have taken several coyotes at 600 yards with a 300 win mag. I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer at 300 with the 243. Not any further than that though.

[northernvalk]

250-300 yards are pretty intimidating to someone who has never shot that far. I have taken several coyotes at 600 yards with a 300 win mag. I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer at 300 with the 243. Not any further than that though.

600 yards for a yote, NICE!!! even at 6 bills, that 300 would still hit like a hammer!, were you shooting 150s?

[Gavin_Sons]

250-300 yards are pretty intimidating to someone who has never shot that far. I have taken several coyotes at 600 yards with a 300 win mag. I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer at 300 with the 243. Not any further than that though.

600 yards for a yote, NICE!!! even at 6 bills, that 300 would still hit like a hammer!, were you shooting 150s?

178 grain hornadys

[Varmintmist]

Curious,  where does the bullet hit at 100 yards if sighting in at 200 yards dead center? 

With about any bolt action deer rifle, if you set it about 1.5 high at 100, you will be pretty close to zero at 200. Another way to go is Maximum Point Blank Range. You sight your rifle in to where the bullet will not go over the plane of the point of aim more than 3 inches. The max range is where the bullet then drops to 3 in below the point of aim. Figure a whitetails vitals are a 6 in area and there ya go. Bigger critter, longer MPBR. After about 270-300 you still need to dope in holdover.
You can get a chart, or use a online ballistics chart, to get a more refined number, but the only way to be dead on at any range is to shoot that range.
This is my favorite https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/ The better the input, the closer the estimation will be.
If you dont have a cronograph, and you are shooting factory, you can find their speed on the box or the webs. More than likely, they are shooting from a 24" bbl, so you can adjust down a bit for every inch your hunting rifle is.

Correct.  I did assume that anyone asking this question would be shooting factory ammo....if you hand load, this "lesson" was more than likely learned at the beginning our your shooting lifetime.  It is A LOT harder to shoot at 300 yards, especially for sighting, and other factors need to be doped in, so sighting at the initial point the ballistic arch crosses your sight line will get you very close and give you confidence out to 250-300 depending on cartridge/rifle.  I have fired on a range up to 800 meters, but most hunters have never taken a shot over 300 yards and few would even consider it. For the "average" hunter/shooter, 200-300 is a LONG way. I wouldn't recommend anyone shoot those kind of distances without significant training and practice, but that's the fun part anyway!!! So get out there and heat up some brass, nothing beats pratice and there isn't much more fun than shooting, and the feeling when you explode that milk jug at 400+ yards is exhilarating!!!!

250-300 yards are pretty intimidating to someone who has never shot that far. I have taken several coyotes at 600 yards with a 300 win mag. I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer at 300 with the 243. Not any further than that though.

300 is still considered short range in service rifle. Elevation for range is easy, just do the math. Bullet is fired at X angle at X velocity with a ballistic coefficient of XX  it will sink back through the point of aim at a calculated drop. Where the whitchery comes in is doping wind past 300.

[northernvalk]

  measure, estimate, compensate, squeeze and watch......i love lobing rounds over 400 meters. In competition we used a C12 in 7.62x51 Nato. at 800 meters it one hell of physics lesson and windage lottery. I remember praying the flags would remain "constant" when squeezing rounds on target!!! open sights, it's like firing an artillery round lol.

[phideux]

I don't sight my "hunting guns" in for deer season. I shoot them all year round, along with my bows, which I use most of the time for hunting.
I spent 18yrs working my "real" jobs, while having a part time job at a gun shop and shooting range. I can't count all the folks that come in right before deer season to either shoot their deer guns in, or let our gunsmith sight them in for them. A crap load of people shoot just a handful of rounds, if that, out of their hunting guns each year. These same ones will come back bitching about how they missed the big one, or got a bad shot on one. They automatically blame the gun or the scope.
If you are gonna hunt, be proficient with what you hunt with, you owe it to the animal you are hunting. Shoot your hunting stuff more than once a year. Shoot them standing, kneeling, off hand, all different ways. You never get a shot on a deer with a rifle rest at a range. Practice like you hunt.

[Varmintmist]

measure, estimate, compensate, squeeze and watch......i love lobing rounds over 400 meters. In competition we used a C12 in 7.62x51 Nato. at 800 meters it one hell of physics lesson and windage lottery. I remember praying the flags would remain "constant" when squeezing rounds on target!!! open sights, it's like firing an artillery round lol.

Did a service rifle (AR)  match this summer, I had 15+ MOA of right windage at 600. That 7.5 feet. SWAGed 8 MOA and shot a 6, added more. Did one this fall and had 4MOA on, and was doing OK, then the wind at the target started blowing the left to right while the wind at 600 continued right to left. Had to give up on the opens due to eyes past 200. Service rifle is a 4x max optic now so I can still shoot it.

[northernvalk]

I don't sight my "hunting guns" in for deer season. I shoot them all year round, along with my bows, which I use most of the time for hunting.
I spent 18yrs working my "real" jobs, while having a part time job at a gun shop and shooting range. I can't count all the folks that come in right before deer season to either shoot their deer guns in, or let our gunsmith sight them in for them. A crap load of people shoot just a handful of rounds, if that, out of their hunting guns each year. These same ones will come back bitching about how they missed the big one, or got a bad shot on one. They automatically blame the gun or the scope.
If you are gonna hunt, be proficient with what you hunt with, you owe it to the animal you are hunting. Shoot your hunting stuff more than once a year. Shoot them standing, kneeling, off hand, all different ways. You never get a shot on a deer with a rifle rest at a range. Practice like you hunt.

This is an EXCELLENT post! Shooting is a learned skill and needs to be practiced on a regular basis if you hope to be consistent! Luckily my parents own 200 acres with open fields up to 800 yards or so, we get to shoot all year but don't do much in the winter unless the wolves get ballsy....

[Leathel]

I don't sight my "hunting guns" in for deer season. I shoot them all year round, along with my bows, which I use most of the time for hunting.
I spent 18yrs working my "real" jobs, while having a part time job at a gun shop and shooting range. I can't count all the folks that come in right before deer season to either shoot their deer guns in, or let our gunsmith sight them in for them. A crap load of people shoot just a handful of rounds, if that, out of their hunting guns each year. These same ones will come back bitching about how they missed the big one, or got a bad shot on one. They automatically blame the gun or the scope.
If you are gonna hunt, be proficient with what you hunt with, you owe it to the animal you are hunting. Shoot your hunting stuff more than once a year. Shoot them standing, kneeling, off hand, all different ways. You never get a shot on a deer with a rifle rest at a range. Practice like you hunt.

Its the same over here in New Zealand, so many don't understand why I reload, a box of 20 rounds will do them a few years.... But when you talk to them about hunting and they have plenty of stories about the one that got away, my pet hate are the ones that rared up and took off..... It must have been close story, when in reality they probably hit it as we all know they can go a fair distance with a lung shot....but they doubt they own ability as they haven't done the practice to know in there head its a hit and its going to be dead, just got to find it.
We have a mates place set up with steel targets that we set from 300 - 850 yards, on the knee to 300 is easy with practice , at rest 500 is easy, past that and wind drop temp etc can make more of a challenge but its good to practice... but on animals I tend to shoot half the range I shoot at steel, not wanting to wound an animals but in good conditions have taken goats out to 600..mates go further but its a long way to walk when shooting across valleys to finish an animals off so I play it safe!

My kids have shot plenty of steel, good practice for them, My sons first kills were magpies that were in a paddock 250 yards away when we had a steel day, first 2 kills and not a miss, they were shot from the hill beside the dark green trees (can just see the gazebo we were shooting targets from)





He used a little BRNO that I had put an old barrel of my 260 that I had shortened and setup as a 6.5BR...was a 223 that someone opened the bolf face and tried to ream to 22-250 but mucked it up, I had bit laying around to slapped it together

[Gavin_Sons]

I do shoot mine all year long but have not shot it for a couple months and just wanted to be sure it was still up to my standards. I know these people you talk about. They blame everyone but themselves. I use to work in a gun shop and we would sell slug guns the night before season came in with a scope and just a bore sight. A few came back with deer but the majority did not. We told them this up front, a bore sight will just get you on paper, it is up to you to fine tune it. Yes, sometimes the boresight would be dead on but mostly was off by up to 10 inches at 50 yards.

[MarkT]

I was out on the range yesterday getting my M1A ready for the season - new setup, had not been fired since I swapped out the folding evil black folding stock for a milsurp M14 wood one. And added the Nikoplex 800 BDC scope.  Brought that and 2 other rifles to be sure they were spot on (In fact, used Nikon's SpotOn ballistic computer ap on the phone, VERY nice check it out if you haven't, only like $5 IIRC). The Ruger .44mag carbine I've had 40 years; great woods rifle, and one of the new AR's I built recently but hadn't fired yet. Not to mention the .500mag S&W X-frame hand cannon.  Another shooter at the range just had to check it out - 2 shots was enuff for him - stung his hand pretty good.  Warned him!   Anyhow - got the M1A zero'd in at 200 but the group was wandering - what the hell?  Turns out the scope mounts vibrated loose and I didn't have a full set of hex wrenches with me.  Remembered everything else but forgot the gun tools.  DAMN! Hafta make a list or just put the stuff in the range bag and leave it there. Well now they are nice and tight and loctited but now have to go back to the range to verify & re-zero.  We don't get nice windless and warm days here in CO this time of year very often.  The stand I'll be on with my bud is 70 yds from the feeder in the woods - Hell I could take them easy with iron sights (co-witness on the M1A) or the .500mag.

Here's the stand my bud has set up.  Heated, office chairs inside, shelf for rifle rests, hot coffee, snacks, radio (down low), toilet and plexi windows that fold up.  The deer are attracted to an automatic corn feeder 70 yds away in the woods near a creek - prime habitat.  Rough hunting.  I paid the dues back in the day, hunting from tree stands 30 ft up, a couple miles from a tent camp in the swamps in the cold N. WI winters.  Had to bundle up not to freeze then get too comfy and fall asleep. No ATV's to haul the deer.    Now - not so much.  Drive the truck to where the deer is downed.  Now I need a crane to lift them into the truck.  Hmm.

[Jess from VA]

Another day at the office.      I like it. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't sight my "hunting guns" in for deer season. I shoot them all year round, along with my bows, which I use most of the time for hunting.
I spent 18yrs working my "real" jobs, while having a part time job at a gun shop and shooting range. I can't count all the folks that come in right before deer season to either shoot their deer guns in, or let our gunsmith sight them in for them. A crap load of people shoot just a handful of rounds, if that, out of their hunting guns each year. These same ones will come back bitching about how they missed the big one, or got a bad shot on one. They automatically blame the gun or the scope.
If you are gonna hunt, be proficient with what you hunt with, you owe it to the animal you are hunting. Shoot your hunting stuff more than once a year. Shoot them standing, kneeling, off hand, all different ways. You never get a shot on a deer with a rifle rest at a range. Practice like you hunt.

Its the same over here in New Zealand, so many don't understand why I reload, a box of 20 rounds will do them a few years.... But when you talk to them about hunting and they have plenty of stories about the one that got away, my pet hate are the ones that rared up and took off..... It must have been close story, when in reality they probably hit it as we all know they can go a fair distance with a lung shot....but they doubt they own ability as they haven't done the practice to know in there head its a hit and its going to be dead, just got to find it.
We have a mates place set up with steel targets that we set from 300 - 850 yards, on the knee to 300 is easy with practice , at rest 500 is easy, past that and wind drop temp etc can make more of a challenge but its good to practice... but on animals I tend to shoot half the range I shoot at steel, not wanting to wound an animals but in good conditions have taken goats out to 600..mates go further but its a long way to walk when shooting across valleys to finish an animals off so I play it safe!

My kids have shot plenty of steel, good practice for them, My sons first kills were magpies that were in a paddock 250 yards away when we had a steel day, first 2 kills and not a miss, they were shot from the hill beside the dark green trees (can just see the gazebo we were shooting targets from)





He used a little BRNO that I had put an old barrel of my 260 that I had shortened and setup as a 6.5BR...was a 223 that someone opened the bolf face and tried to ream to 22-250 but mucked it up, I had bit laying around to slapped it together

Reminds me of having my nephew with us moose hunting. He was only about 8 at the time. I'd bring my BB gun out there with us to knock off "camp robbers" who would try to get at the hanging meat. He and I would spend hours challenging each other to special shots.

[fudgie]

I was out on the range yesterday getting my M1A ready for the season - new setup, had not been fired since I swapped out the folding evil black folding stock for a milsurp M14 wood one. And added the Nikoplex 800 BDC scope.  Brought that and 2 other rifles to be sure they were spot on (In fact, used Nikon's SpotOn ballistic computer ap on the phone, VERY nice check it out if you haven't, only like $5 IIRC). The Ruger .44mag carbine I've had 40 years; great woods rifle, and one of the new AR's I built recently but hadn't fired yet. Not to mention the .500mag S&W X-frame hand cannon.  Another shooter at the range just had to check it out - 2 shots was enuff for him - stung his hand pretty good.  Warned him!   Anyhow - got the M1A zero'd in at 200 but the group was wandering - what the hell?  Turns out the scope mounts vibrated loose and I didn't have a full set of hex wrenches with me.  Remembered everything else but forgot the gun tools.  DAMN! Hafta make a list or just put the stuff in the range bag and leave it there. Well now they are nice and tight and loctited but now have to go back to the range to verify & re-zero.  We don't get nice windless and warm days here in CO this time of year very often.  The stand I'll be on with my bud is 70 yds from the feeder in the woods - Hell I could take them easy with iron sights (co-witness on the M1A) or the .500mag.

Here's the stand my bud has set up.  Heated, office chairs inside, shelf for rifle rests, hot coffee, snacks, radio (down low), toilet and plexi windows that fold up.  The deer are attracted to an automatic corn feeder 70 yds away in the woods near a creek - prime habitat.  Rough hunting.  I paid the dues back in the day, hunting from tree stands 30 ft up, a couple miles from a tent camp in the swamps in the cold N. WI winters.  Had to bundle up not to freeze then get too comfy and fall asleep. No ATV's to haul the deer.    Now - not so much.  Drive the truck to where the deer is downed.  Now I need a crane to lift them into the truck.  Hmm.

Dad has a similar set up except his is on a grain hopper chassis.