Matt Lauer - fired!

[Serk]

While I'd prefer a morally sound candidate, it's their actions in office that really count...

Case in point, if presented with the options between these two, which would you pick?

Candidate A - Kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, drinks a quart of whiskey a day, used opium in college and smokes heavily.

Candidate B - Decorated war hero, vegetarian, doesn't smoke, very rarely drinks and never cheated on his wife.

If you chose candidate B, congratulations, you just selected Adolf Hitler over Winston Churchill. (And I just Godwin Law'ed myself.)

[Willow]

... and never cheated on his wife.

If you chose candidate B, congratulations, you just selected Adolf Hitler over Winston Churchill. (And I just Godwin Law'ed myself.)

Actually Hitler was only married to his wife in the final minutes of his life.  Not much opportunity for cheating there.

[Serk]

... and never cheated on his wife.

If you chose candidate B, congratulations, you just selected Adolf Hitler over Winston Churchill. (And I just Godwin Law'ed myself.)

Actually Hitler was only married to his wife in the final minutes of his life.  Not much opportunity for cheating there.

Yup, but it's still technically true that he didn't cheat on her...

[The emperor has no clothes]

While I'd prefer a morally sound candidate, it's their actions in office that really count...

Case in point, if presented with the options between these two, which would you pick?

Candidate A - Kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, drinks a quart of whiskey a day, used opium in college and smokes heavily.

Candidate B - Decorated war hero, vegetarian, doesn't smoke, very rarely drinks and never cheated on his wife.

If you chose candidate B, congratulations, you just selected Adolf Hitler over Winston Churchill. (And I just Godwin Law'ed myself.)

I'm curious why you view being a vegetarian and non smoker as good moral character preferences ?

[Serk]

I'm curious why you view being a vegetarian and non smoker as good moral character preferences ?

Vegetarian - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-4920994/Why-meat-eater-mean-SNOB.html

Smoking - http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/1067/resolution-on-cigarette-smoking

(Not saying I do or don't agree with either, there are many thing "society" considers moral that I consider immoral and vice versa.)

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm curious why you view being a vegetarian and non smoker as good moral character preferences ?

Vegetarian - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-4920994/Why-meat-eater-mean-SNOB.html

Smoking - http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/1067/resolution-on-cigarette-smoking

(Not saying I do or don't agree with either, there are many thing "society" considers moral that I consider immoral and vice versa.)

We are in agreement. I seem to be at odds with society a lot. 

[Skinhead]

Yeah I think Matt pinched someone's grandmothers tits back in '32........ So tired of this jumping on the bandwagon crap it makes me want to puke.

Women are finally being listened to, and there are now consequences for bad behaviour by men in power.  I think that's a good thing.  Go puke your guts out, if it makes you feel better.

Matt Lauer wrote in a message issued by his public relations team:
“Some of what is being said about me is untrue or mischaracterized, but there is enough truth in these stories to make me feel embarrassed and ashamed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/media/matt-lauer-nbc-statement.html

** EDIT TO ADD: **
I hope that of the men who are guilty of this kind of immoral/unethical/criminal behaviour, a large percentage of them are developing ulcers from the dread of their actions coming to light.

GR my only point there was that why didn't any of these women come forward before? 1 speaks then all of a sudden there are 100's claiming the same thing, why if it has been happening to them have they not spoken up?
Don't get me wrong if there was sexual abuse prosecute the perps to the max allowed.
I just can't understand the overwhelming flood of this all at once.

See bold above.  The thing that has changed is that up until recently complainants, to a large degree, have either been ignored, transferred from the presence of their perpetrator, or punished for rocking the boat.  In the last couple of years, and more so in the last few months, complaints are being taken seriously and perpetrators are being prosecuted, reprimanded or otherwise non-criminally punished, or ostracized.  Women are also seeing a trend that allows a pussy-grabbing, misogynistic, openly narcissistic demagogue to become President, and they're finally willing to do something about it when similar men have victimized them, personally.

That was unworthy of you, Gryphon Rider.

The question I have, and I don't know that it has ever been proven, but did Trump merely talk about the alleged genital grabbing, as in some good old boys engaging in locker room talk, our is there proof of actual instances of genital grabbing?

[Skinhead]

I suppose it comes down to one's definition of hatred.  One who sees the value of women largely determined by their sexual desirability, and who, when in a disagreement with a woman, attacks her sexuality or appearance or uses derogatory terms based on her gender (e.g. "bimbo"), in other words sees women as not being worthy of dignity, hates women.  Does the fact that Hitler considered some Jews to be "noble Jews" and worthy of protection prove that he didn't hate Jews?  Now I'm not saying that Trump is even remotely comparable to Hitler in terms of evil committed or degree of hatred, but just that exceptions don't disprove the generalization.

I think part of the problem with the whole "hates women" thing is that Trump (or anyone else for that matter) makes a remark about a particular woman i.e. Rosie O'Donnell, (who I consider appalling, along with Rosanne Barr), In some instances his comments may have been true statements or justified.  But these statements about a particular woman are taken to universally apply to all women, when he doesn't feel that way toward all.  Statements must be taken in context. 

[Gryphon Rider]

I suppose it comes down to one's definition of hatred.  One who sees the value of women largely determined by their sexual desirability, and who, when in a disagreement with a woman, attacks her sexuality or appearance or uses derogatory terms based on her gender (e.g. "bimbo"), in other words sees women as not being worthy of dignity, hates women.  Does the fact that Hitler considered some Jews to be "noble Jews" and worthy of protection prove that he didn't hate Jews?  Now I'm not saying that Trump is even remotely comparable to Hitler in terms of evil committed or degree of hatred, but just that exceptions don't disprove the generalization.

I think part of the problem with the whole "hates women" thing is that Trump (or anyone else for that matter) makes a remark about a particular woman i.e. Rosie O'Donnell, (who I consider appalling, along with Rosanne Barr), In some instances his comments may have been true statements or justified.  But these statements about a particular woman are taken to universally apply to all women, when he doesn't feel that way toward all.  Statements must be taken in context.  

We're not talking about him merely being harsh with people who deserve it. We're talking about verbally assaulting, with a focus on some aspect of their sexuality or gender, the dignity of many, if not most, of the women he disagrees with, and regarding the (good-looking) ones he likes as sexual objects. American women are rightfully fed up with this societal blight, and having their President as such an egregious example of it has put some iron in their spines.

[Rams]

We're not talking about him merely being harsh with people who deserve it. We're talking about verbally assaulting, with a focus on some aspect of their sexuality or gender, the dignity of many, if not most, of the women he disagrees with, and regarding the (good-looking) ones he likes as sexual objects. American women are rightfully fed up with this societal blight, and having their President as such an agregious example of it has put some iron in their spines.

I can relate, gets old being looked at as just an object to some fantasy to be used and thrown away....
But, I'm getting used to it.    Women!!!! 

[Willow]

... American women are rightfully fed up with this societal blight, and having their President as such an agregious example of it has put some iron in their spines.

I think your analysis and assessment is entirely incorrect.  U.S. women have the right to vote.  Forty-two percent of them voted for the duly elected President of the United States.  It appears that you, like a lot of us, simply see what you prefer to see.

I have stated before and will do so again that Donald Trump was certainly not my first choice during the elections.  He was however the best option of the choices presented.  I voted for Donald Trump.  A vote for him was a vote against Hillary Clinton and his election put Mike Pence into the vice presidential position.

Our Canadian friend while castigating the duly elected President of the United States says that had he been a voter he would have cast his vote for a third party candidate.  I guess he doesn't recognize that such a vote would in fact be a vote for Hillary Clinton.

I enjoy the sight of a pretty woman.  I do not talk about grabbing their female parts nor do I lust after physical relationship with them.  I do not think that males and females of the species are exactly alike.  Truthfully I acknowledge that there are some tasks or skills are which women are generally superior and there are some tasks or skills at which men are generally superior.  I suppose by G. Rider's values that would make me a misogynist but I don't hate or misuse women.

I am not qualified to be President of the U.S.     

[Rams]

I am not qualified to be President of the U.S.      

Carl,
Being brutally honest, if you had run against HRC, you would have had my vote.  

Edited: Although, I'm not sure how they would have handled a Presidential bust with that stache..................  

[Gryphon Rider]

I can relate, gets old being looked at as just an object to some fantasy to be used and thrown away....
But, I'm getting used to it.    Women!!!! 

[Rams]

I can relate, gets old being looked at as just an object to some fantasy to be used and thrown away....
But, I'm getting used to it.    Women!!!! 

Aw Yes, you know my pain.......................   

[GiG]

... American women are rightfully fed up with this societal blight, and having their President as such an agregious example of it has put some iron in their spines.

...I do not think that males and females of the species are exactly alike...

I’ve seen photographs suggesting that is true 

[Gryphon Rider]

... American women are rightfully fed up with this societal blight, and having their President as such an egregious example of it has put some iron in their spines.

I think your analysis and assessment is entirely incorrect.  U.S. women have the right to vote.  Forty-two percent of them voted for the duly elected President of the United States.  It appears that you, like a lot of us, simply see what you prefer to see.

I have stated before and will do so again that Donald Trump was certainly not my first choice during the elections.  He was however the best option of the choices presented.  I voted for Donald Trump.  A vote for him was a vote against Hillary Clinton and his election put Mike Pence into the vice presidential position.

Our Canadian friend while castigating the duly elected President of the United States says that had he been a voter he would have cast his vote for a third party candidate.  I guess he doesn't recognize that such a vote would in fact be a vote for Hillary Clinton.

I enjoy the sight of a pretty woman.  I do not talk about grabbing their female parts nor do I lust after physical relationship with them.  I do not think that males and females of the species are exactly alike.  Truthfully I acknowledge that there are some tasks or skills are which women are generally superior and there are some tasks or skills at which men are generally superior.  I suppose by G. Rider's values that would make me a misogynist but I don't hate or misuse women.

I am not qualified to be President of the U.S.     

My comments were in response to these questions:

GR my only point there was that why didn't any of these women come forward before? 1 speaks then all of a sudden there are 100's claiming the same thing, why if it has been happening to them have they not spoken up?
Don't get me wrong if there was sexual abuse prosecute the perps to the max allowed.
I just can't understand the overwhelming flood of this all at once.

I'm sure many, like you, think it's more odious to vote for a Democrat, or HRC in particular, than to vote for a notoriously sexist (amongst other character flaws) Republican whose promises, policies, and capabilities in other matters are appealing.  I usually put more weight on the character, competence, and ideals of the individual candidate than on the name of the party they are running under, but people who better match my ideals tend to run for particular parties that also align better with my way of thinking.  During the last provincial election, I couldn't find out anything substantial about the local candidate for the party I wanted to vote for, so I voted for a man with an established stellar reputation who was running for a party that I wouldn't otherwise have voted for.  But that has little to do with the question I was answering, "Why didn't any of these women come forward before?"

Part of the answer to that question, and I have no way of knowing how large a part, is that women are seeing what kind of man can become president when men like that are not held to account for their behaviour.

I enjoy the sight of a pretty woman.  I do not talk about grabbing their female parts nor do I lust after physical relationship with them.  I do not think that males and females of the species are exactly alike.  Truthfully I acknowledge that there are some tasks or skills are which women are generally superior and there are some tasks or skills at which men are generally superior.  I suppose by G. Rider's values that would make me a misogynist but I don't hate or misuse women.

I don't know what you think I said, but I never said appreciating the beauty of a woman or understanding the differences between the sexes was misogynistic.  Assessing women in a way that only considers whether they can fulfill my needs, ignoring consideration of their dignity as a whole person, is what makes me a misogynist.  Some of us recognise when we are guilty of it and take steps to mitigate or eliminate it from within us, while others are proud of it and seize every opportunity to practise it.

From http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300093-trump-confirms-he-walked-backstage-when-beauty-queens:

“I’ll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show and everyone’s getting dressed,” Trump told Stern.

“No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. … ‘Is everyone OK?' You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible-looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

Former Miss New Hampshire Bridget Sullivan told BuzzFeed News in May that it was “shocking” Trump would come backstage to wish the contestants good luck when many of them weren’t dressed.

“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

[Skinhead]

From http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300093-trump-confirms-he-walked-backstage-when-beauty-queens:

“I’ll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show and everyone’s getting dressed,” Trump told Stern.

“No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. … ‘Is everyone OK?' You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible-looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

Former Miss New Hampshire Bridget Sullivan told BuzzFeed News in May that it was “shocking” Trump would come backstage to wish the contestants good luck when many of them weren’t dressed.

“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

I don't know, it may be just me, but I would call that good timing!

[Willow]

...
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

I don't know, it may be just me, but I would call that good timing!

I don't approve of that behavior.  I don't fully know the context, but I don't think it would cause me to change my mind. 

However, once more that incident is seventeen years old.  If he is what his accusers insist shouldn't they be able to find some more recent examples?

That said, I would have voted for Donald Trump even if all they claim is accurate.  It was that important to me to vote against Hillary Clinton and to do what we can to solidify worthwhile Supreme Court nominations.

[The emperor has no clothes]

...
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

I don't know, it may be just me, but I would call that good timing!

I don't approve of that behavior.  I don't fully know the context, but I don't think it would cause me to change my mind. 

However, once more that incident is seventeen years old.  If he is what his accusers insist shouldn't they be able to find some more recent examples?

That said, I would have voted for Donald Trump even if all they claim is accurate.  It was that important to me to vote against Hillary Clinton and to do what we can to solidify worthwhile Supreme Court nominations.

Even if all they claim is accurate ? Or just the behaviors towards women ?

[Willow]

...
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

I don't know, it may be just me, but I would call that good timing!

I don't approve of that behavior.  I don't fully know the context, but I don't think it would cause me to change my mind. 

However, once more that incident is seventeen years old.  If he is what his accusers insist shouldn't they be able to find some more recent examples?

That said, I would have voted for Donald Trump even if all they claim is accurate.  It was that important to me to vote against Hillary Clinton and to do what we can to solidify worthwhile Supreme Court nominations.

Even if all they claim is accurate ? Or just the behaviors towards women ?

Even if all they claim is accurate.  I thought I said that.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

...
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked,” Sullivan said.

I don't know, it may be just me, but I would call that good timing!

I don't approve of that behavior.  I don't fully know the context, but I don't think it would cause me to change my mind. 

However, once more that incident is seventeen years old.  If he is what his accusers insist shouldn't they be able to find some more recent examples?

That said, I would have voted for Donald Trump even if all they claim is accurate.  It was that important to me to vote against Hillary Clinton and to do what we can to solidify worthwhile Supreme Court nominations.

Even if all they claim is accurate ? Or just the behaviors towards women ?

Even if all they claim is accurate.  I thought I said that.   

Yes you did. I just wanted to make sure I understood you were fine voting for someone who could beholden to a foreign dictator. 

[Serk]

Yes you did. I just wanted to make sure I understood you were fine voting for someone who could beholden to a foreign dictator. 

I can't speak for Willow, but for me, that was precisely one of the reasons I voted against her.

https://www.newsday.com/opinion/commentary/hillary-and-bill-clinton-russia-ties-1.15322854

So if they're both owned by a foreign dictator, might as well vote for the one that will nominate SCOTUS justices that believe in freedom and liberty.

[Serk]

[G-Man]

Yes you did. I just wanted to make sure I understood you were fine voting for someone who could beholden to a foreign dictator. 

I can't speak for Willow, but for me, that was precisely one of the reasons I voted against her.

https://www.newsday.com/opinion/commentary/hillary-and-bill-clinton-russia-ties-1.15322854

So if they're both owned by a foreign dictator, might as well vote for the one that will nominate SCOTUS justices that believe in freedom and liberty.

I tried explaining this to my daughter the other day and she couldn't wrap her head around it.  I gave her examples of clear and accurate facts, detailing money going to the Clintons from foreign heads of state, pay for play, 30 thousand pieces of State Dept. correspondence/activities that disappeared, etc.  On the other hand, we had Trump showing Putin a minutia of public respect and the left went crazy accusing Trump of anything that would stick.  Russian collusion stuck with the FAKE NEWS  lame stream media and after a year of "investigations" over a bogus accusation, they've found nothing against Candidate, President elect, or President Trump. 

It is for these reasons, I too felt I had no choice but to vote against Clinton, and my choice continues to be well justified the longer the investigation continues because they keep proving a negative which is very difficult to do.