Are you guys following the new Tax reform?

[Oss]

RDAbull you nailed it.   Both sides live off the pork and the back door money

And the fat cats can not and will not cut their favorite on either side of the aisle.

I think, but dont know for sure, that dinosnake owns a Valk   I know I invited him to the fall ride

Dino do you own a Valk and post a pic !   By the way. we have members who no longer own a Valk dont we?

and G-man is correct, my Democrats had a majority and failed to get the job done  and also those cursed Republicans did no better.  Both of em suck these days.

Fortunately Trump aint in it for the money. After all look how much money he gets paid for the abuse he is taking.

[Savago]

RDAbull you nailed it.   Both sides live off the pork and the back door money

Amen, brother!
 

[Savago]

@RDABull: But that is the problem no?
Lower corporate taxes = higher personal taxes or **higher deficits**

Which means in short term an even higher deficit. Fiscal responsibility used to be a core value of Republicans.

With the added bonus: in 4 years more taxes (if you are not a millionaire). It is the worst of both cases.

I'm vested in USA (about 70-76% of my assets, maybe is time to diversify a bit more?) and also don't wanna see the country defaulting its debts in 20-30 years because then the dollar will be worth nothing and the same goes for real state (i.e. think Detroit).

[RDAbull]

@RDABull: But that is the problem no?
Lower corporate taxes = higher personal taxes or **higher deficits**

Which means in short term an even higher deficit. Fiscal responsibility used to be a core value of Republicans.

With the added bonus: in 4 years more taxes (if you are not a millionaire). It is the worst of both cases.

I'm vested in USA (about 70-76% of my assets, maybe is time to diversify a bit more?) and don't wanna see the country defaulting its debts in 20-30 years because then the dollar will be worth nothing and the same goes for real state (i.e. think Detroit).

That is my point.  This whole tax debate is a sham, it fixes nothing but instead only kicks the can down the road and increases the risk to our economy.  If you think that the pols will let taxes rise in four years you are in dreamland.  It will just be another temporary appeasement that will kick said can again.  The fix is a restructure of tax law but that will only be done as a last resort several years from now when we finally restructure the election process.

Diversify by buying a new motorcycle and riding the hell out of it.

[Savago]

Diversify by buying a new motorcycle and riding the hell out of it.

Loved the plan!
:-D

[John Schmidt]

First point is that corporations do not pay taxes, period.  They only act as conduits for the funds that we pay into them when we purchase their goods and services.  The taxes they send to DC are just one of the costs of doing business they incur, just like Cost of Goods Sold or General Administrative  and Selling expenses.  If P&G doesn't collect that 1 cent extra to pay the Income Taxes on the sale of that bar of Ivory Soap they go out of business as an extreme example.  The consumer pays all corporate taxes: income, property, sales, etc.  Lower corporate taxes = higher personal taxes or higher deficits.  The cash flow has to come from somewhere.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RDABull....BINGO!  As Willow said....finally, someone has stated the obvious. I was an auditor for the State of Florida for 30 years, made a lot of heavy assessments and a lot of heavy refunds. The assessments only made a temporary dent in disposable cash until the price increases took hold. As for refunds, it seldom....if ever, was felt beyond the upper corporate level. I would audit for various state taxes at one visit and if a pattern appeared, we would re-audit in three years. In the second audit I always would see the impact of the previous visit from three years prior. When I asked one boat builder why they never changed their practices, he simply answered with something to the effect "you can only go back three years, think how much I've screwed you out of prior to that!"  The only way we could go back beyond three years was if we could prove fraud, which isn't easy when you don't have access to years out of statute. That particular boat company was revisited at 30 months in stead of the usual 36.   I did the same thing to a few other outfits with the same mentality until they finally decided it was cheaper to clean up their act.

My point is....I got a first hand look at the very thing highlighted above. Literally, the only time I saw a refund passed on to the employees was in small businesses such as a mom & pop establishment or a small company with only one or two people at the top. Some big corporations got millions in refunds, especially if they were involved in Gov't. contracts such as aerospace, etc. One large aerospace corp. got a refund of over $50 million in sales tax alone. That money and any discussion re. it never went beyond the board room, I was privileged(?) to be there since they asked me to discuss and review the audit with them. When done, one comment made that really riled me came from one of the top execs; "that sure will feel good come Christmas."

[dinosnake]

RDAbull you nailed it.   Both sides live off the pork and the back door money

And the fat cats can not and will not cut their favorite on either side of the aisle.

Yep.  We're screwed.  We got the best government money can buy, and we're all too stupid to do anything about it.

I think, but dont know for sure, that dinosnake owns a Valk   I know I invited him to the fall ride

Dino do you own a Valk and post a pic !

I've posted a pic of my Valk in the 1800 forum ride 'em don't hide 'em picture thread

Fortunately Trump aint in it for the money.

Nope, it's worse: he's doing it for his own ego.  To become the center of attention (look closely at his comments during any type of meeting).  To show, yes, he really *is* somebody (after being rejected by New York high society...who STILL want nothing to do with him, even in the Oval Office).  

He's the most dangerous type of person to give a position of power to: a narcissist.  It's all about him and how he does things, even if not much really gets done by him at all.  Bask in his sunshine, boys, before the manure hits the flames.

[John Schmidt]

He's the most dangerous type of person to give a position of power to: a narcissist.
===============================================================
Really?  And you really think we didn't have that in super portions the last eight years?   

[Serk]

the most dangerous type of person to give a position of power to: a narcissist.  It's all about him and how he does things

How true...

[Oss]

touche Serk

 


Oss

That was a belly laugh emogee

Nice bike Dino

[dinosnake]

He's the most dangerous type of person to give a position of power to: a narcissist.
===============================================================
Really?  And you really think we didn't have that in super portions the last eight years?   

In a way, yes!  ALL these people end up wanting power for ego sake.

But you missed the point of Star Trek:S3E22 - "The Savage Curtain".  

Kirk and Spock are forced, by aliens, to fight historically "evil" villains, with the help of historical "good guys", in order for the aliens to understand these concepts.

Alien: "We offer you an opportunity to become our teachers by demonstrating whether good or evil is more powerful."

The good guys win.  But the aliens are confused:

Alien: "However, you have failed to demonstrate to me any other difference between your philosophies. Your good and your evil use the same methods, achieve the same results. Do you have an explanation?"

KIRK: "You established the methods and the goals."

Alien: "For you to use as you chose."

KIRK: "What did you offer the others if they won?"

Alien: "What they wanted most. Power."

KIRK: "You offered me the lives of my crew."

The difference isn't the actions, people, the difference is the motivation.  Modern GOP activity is about benefiting their own group - usually quite wealthy, sometimes middle class.  The liberals are usually wealthy and powerful, too, but they try to make policies and actions that help people less fortunate than themselves.  A rich liberal will try to pass a welfare program for the homeless...a rich neo-conservative will try to pass tax benefits for themselves.

And THAT'S the difference.

[Serk]

You seem to think that us conservative and libertarians don't want to help the less fortunate?

Nothing could be further from the truth.

We just disagree as to the best way to help the less fortunate.

As ultra-conservative right-wing Republican Bono of U2 says "Capitalism Takes More People Out of Poverty Than Aid"

Release people from the shackles of "government aid" and let capitalism free people from the tyranny of the state.

[dinosnake]

You seem to think that us conservative and libertarians don't want to help the less fortunate?

Nothing could be further from the truth.

We just disagree as to the best way to help the less fortunate.

As ultra-conservative right-wing Republican Bono of U2 says "Capitalism Takes More People Out of Poverty Than Aid"

I overall agree: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

But there are absolute times when, in desperate times for people, measures for rescue are called for.  You can't have "rescue" when you DISMANTLE the functions, and worse when you're claiming to do it for their "future benefit".

It's the worst anti-Christian joke.  "We're going to help you!  By cutting you off and forcing you into a corner, you'll fix yourself!"

The Bible does NOT, NOT say "God helps those who help themselves" ANYWHERE, sorry.  It is frequently attributed to Ben Franklin, but is most likely from Algernon Sidney.  The Bible is FULL of Jesus helping others regardless of their social position, yet politically conservative evangelicals are, frequently, doing the opposite.

Here are FACTS:

Trickle-down economics started with Reagan.  That was 1980, *37* year's ago.  Since then, our national debt - added to by BOTH Democrats and Republicans - has gone up 2230%.  Reagan alone blew up the debt by 286%.

Since then, after numerous tax cuts... income inequality is the highest since the Gilded Age of the 1920's.  Costs for the average worker has risen but, by EVERY measure, poll AND expert analysis, our middle class income is STAGNANT. 

Corporations are currently earning RECORD profits, with a massive stock market rally... but pay remains fixed.  Your children have, by *every* measure taken, less opportunity than you for their future but yet you STILL vote yourselves benefits that will hurt *them* in the long run, increasing national debt.

Kansas' GOP-run legislature overruled their governor's trickle-down tax cutbacks, as being an utter failure... and STILL you ask for the same thing, nation-wide.

Denial ain't just a river.

[Serk]

The Bible is FULL of Jesus helping others regardless of their social position, yet politically conservative evangelicals are, frequently, doing the opposite.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am a Christian... Nothing could be further from the truth, but nonetheless:

[G-Man]

 rejected by New York high society... 

That's nonsense.  I've lived here in NYC for 53 years and Trump was rejected by NOBODY.  He was never accused of anything before running against a democrat.  Wherever he was, was the place to be.  They banged down the door to be invited to his weddings (remember, the Clintons were even there).  Rich people paid excessive prices to live in his amazing buildings.  His TV show made MILLIONS for charities and celebrities, entertainers, and rich people donated through the nose to be on, or mentioned on the show.  He's given millions to charities world wide out of his own pockets and through charitable organizations he's run or chaired.  He and his partner, Lefrak, developed terrific middle and low income housing all over the city.

And after 70 years, all they have on President Donald J. Trump is a failing witch hunt and that he's a womanizer. 

And you keep perpetuating the nonsense.   

[RDAbull]

Denial ain't just a river.
[/quote]

Dino, My ultimate point is that if we don't fix the system of taxation in a very near future there will be nothing left to give.  This debate in D.C. is not fixing a damn thing.  The government is not in a position to solve all of the social and economic problems of the nation.  Rich have to pay more, poor have to give something, time, labor or some other type of involvement for their subsistence.  The nation of free stuff will come to an end if we don't elect people of good moral character and with some decent economic knowledge and judgement and work with them to help solve our overindulgent appetite.  When there is nothing left to give we WILL become a very large third world country, and when our economy fails the world depression will make the 30s look tame.

Alarmist, I don't think so.  Realist.
I probably won't live long enough to see it, but my Grandchildren will.

BTW, love your ride.

[G-Man]

 vote yourselves benefits that will hurt *them* in the long run, increasing national debt.

Your blaming the RIGHT for voting themselves benefits? ? ? ?

Don't that beat all?

[G-Man]

Denial ain't just a river.

Dino, My ultimate point is that if we don't fix the system of taxation in a very near future there will be nothing left to give.  This debate in D.C. is not fixing a damn thing.  The government is not in a position to solve all of the social and economic problems of the nation.  Rich have to pay more, poor have to give something, time, labor or some other type of involvement for their subsistence.  The nation of free stuff will come to an end if we don't elect people of good moral character and with some decent economic knowledge and judgement and work with them to help solve our overindulgent appetite.  When there is nothing left to give we WILL become a very large third world country, and when our economy fails the world depression will make the 30s look tame.

Alarmist, I don't think so.  Realist.
I probably won't live long enough to see it, but my Grandchildren will.

BTW, love your ride.
[/quote]

I'm with you, Roger, but the person who is willing to stand up and say EVERYONE needs to pay more or the gov't needs to spend less will not be called a hero because nobody wants to pay more and the left doesn't want to spend less.

[RDAbull]

I'm with you, Roger, but the person who is willing to stand up and say EVERYONE needs to pay more or the gov't needs to spend less will not be called a hero because nobody wants to pay more and the left doesn't want to spend less.

That's the problem Gary.  If I ran and told the nation the truth, I would get 3 votes, including yours.
Nicholson was right  "You can't handle the truth".   That line should have been addressed to a joint session of congress.

[Ramie]

One of my favorite economists explains it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc-bELgAowU

[The emperor has no clothes]

The problem recently (past few years) in my opinion is it’s all about each team “winning”. What’s good for the country doesn’t mean squat. As long as my team gets some small victory over your team that’s all that seems to matter. And it goes with both sides.

[hubcapsc]

Everything's All Democrat or All Republican, and All Bad. Everyone's
intransigent.

-Mike "including me, I guess"

[RDAbull]

Everything's All Democrat or All Republican, and All Bad. Everyone's
intransigent.

-Mike "including me, I guess"

Don't worry Mike, you'll be "transigent" as soon as those papers go through.
Texas spring is calling!

[hubcapsc]

Everything's All Democrat or All Republican, and All Bad. Everyone's
intransigent.

-Mike "including me, I guess"

Don't worry Mike, you'll be "transigent" as soon as those papers go through.
Texas spring is calling!

thirteen days.

-Mike "today's half over..."

[dinosnake]

That's nonsense.  I've lived here in NYC for 53 years and Trump was rejected by NOBODY. 

Never read his biography, have you?  His high society acceptance was not inherited from his father, a major player in the New York real estate scene.  He had to struggle for it, through multiple marriages made with glamorous women to try to gain a bit of street cred, to several poor business decisions that led to multiple bankruptcies.  Mostly, IIRC, is after he left the exclusive realm of NY area real estate - when he went international in Las Vegas and other locations - is when the the world's top rollers started counting him as a real player.  Before, he was rich daddy's son trying hard to cast his own shadow.

In other words, Trump had to buy his way into high society social acceptance. 

[dinosnake]

Denial ain't just a river.

Dino, My ultimate point is that if we don't fix the system of taxation in a very near future there will be nothing left to give.  This debate in D.C. is not fixing a damn thing.  The government is not in a position to solve all of the social and economic problems of the nation.  Rich have to pay more, poor have to give something, time, labor or some other type of involvement for their subsistence.  The nation of free stuff will come to an end if we don't elect people of good moral character and with some decent economic knowledge and judgement and work with them to help solve our overindulgent appetite.  When there is nothing left to give we WILL become a very large third world country, and when our economy fails the world depression will make the 30s look tame.

Alarmist, I don't think so.  Realist.
I probably won't live long enough to see it, but my Grandchildren will.

Actually, I agree with you fully - everyone has to pay a fair share.  Telling the rich that they get loopholes for their money is just as bad as the handouts to the poor that get a conservative's goat. 

Trickle-down economics does...not...work.  Somehow, when allowed to keep more personal funds, a rich person will grant some of that benefit to workers around them??!  Really?  The rich are, somehow, magnanimous with their wealth?  37 years, middle class is collapsing, workers are working harder but not getting ahead, money is allowed to leave the country as well as the jobs, but that will all turn around...because, because, they really want to help?!!

Bah.  What happened to "Fool me once..." after 37 years?  Blind demagoguery?

BTW, love your ride.

Thanks 

[G-Man]

That's nonsense.  I've lived here in NYC for 53 years and Trump was rejected by NOBODY. 

Never read his biography, have you?  His high society acceptance was not inherited from his father, a major player in the New York real estate scene.  He had to struggle for it, through multiple marriages made with glamorous women to try to gain a bit of street cred, to several poor business decisions that led to multiple bankruptcies.  Mostly, IIRC, is after he left the exclusive realm of NY area real estate - when he went international in Las Vegas and other locations - is when the the world's top rollers started counting him as a real player.  Before, he was rich daddy's son trying hard to cast his own shadow.

In other words, Trump had to buy his way into high society social acceptance. 

First you said he was rejected,  I said nonsense,  Then you said he had to work for acceptance, I say who cares?

You and another poster should play ping pong together so it looks at least like you aren't playing against yourself.

[dinosnake]

First you said he was rejected,  I said nonsense,  Then you said he had to work for acceptance, I say who cares?

Because, contrary to modern logic, "I don't care" does not mean "It doesn't matter".  It only means that you, very personally, have no interest.

There are only 3 stages of interpersonal relationship acknowledgment level: rejection, acceptance and much less commonly, tolerance.  If you claim that rejection was "nonsense", and for acceptance "who cares", then that only leaves tolerance...or your simple, outright denial of any opinion other than your own, because Trump's social history must fit within those 3 classifications.

You and another poster should play ping pong together so it looks at least like you aren't playing against yourself.

As now proven, the only person here playing against anything is you: you want to be right no matter if it has any truth, or even fits into a definition of truth itself.  You can't dismiss (A) while also dismissing (B) on a nominal two-choice, optimally three-choice, subset and claim "victory!".