Oss
Member
Posts: 12764
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« on: December 12, 2017, 11:48:19 AM » |
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https://www.facebook.com/WorldCloudLA/videos/595392323918287/selling whole dead babies WTF? piecing together parts for freezer sale? I dont know about you but I am sick right now
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 11:51:43 AM by Oss »
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5232
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 12:24:37 PM » |
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Psalm 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.
Romans 1:28-30
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
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« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 12:28:03 PM by Gryphon Rider »
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f6john
Member
Posts: 9734
Christ first and always
Richmond, Kentucky
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« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 12:42:02 PM » |
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If you read all the replies to that posting you find there are a lot of people in denial. Not sure how much is fact and how much is not. Either way one baby tossed out like garbage or sold for parts is one too many.
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 01:04:35 PM » |
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A few exposes like that one have been aired. Obviously too many don't give a flying f or don't know about it. If they did would it still be happening?
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Serk
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 01:06:02 PM » |
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This is normally a topic I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot cattle prod (My own feelings on this issue are murky and evolving still) but one observation:
If conservatives were really as racist as those on the left like to pretend they are, considering that per capita a "Fetus of color" is far more likely to be aborted than a white fetus, wouldn't conservatives be all in favor of abortion?
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 01:07:05 PM » |
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This is normally a topic I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot cattle prod (My own feelings on this issue are murky and evolving still) but one observation:
If conservatives were really as racist as those on the left like to pretend they are, considering that per capita a "Fetus of color" is far more likely to be aborted than a white fetus, wouldn't conservatives be all in favor of abortion?
Funny old world aint it. |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 01:33:13 PM » |
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I believe its been pretty well proven this has been going on for quite time. Made me sick when I first heard about it, and, it still does.
Many see no problems with late term abortions, very late term abortions.
This is quite a volatile subject.
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16765
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 01:34:51 PM » |
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Honestly once you kill a baby what you do with the remains is pretty much meaningless. It's the killing of the baby that is horrible enough.
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Karen
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 04:03:40 PM » |
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I find the underlying reason - killing unborn babies to sell their parts for financial gain - reprehensible with no saving value. Thus the push to deny personhood to an unborn fully developed fetus, slipping under the legal boundary of defined life. How far away are we from saying "it's less than 6 months old, it's not really a person, and I could really use that heart/lung/liver/kidney/brain/face/skeleton to replace my failing parts..." We're closer than we want to admit...
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Robert
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 04:22:11 PM » |
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Planned Parenthood under investigation by Justice Department over sale of fetal tissue
DOJ launches investigation into Planned Parenthood
Department of Justice looking into the organizations alleged selling of human fetal tissues.
The Justice Department has launched a federal investigation into Planned Parenthood’s practices and the sale of fetal tissue.
In a letter first obtained by Fox News, Justice Department Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs Stephen Boyd formally requested unredacted documents from the Senate Judiciary Committee, the same panel that led the congressional probe into the women’s health organization.
“The Department of Justice appreciates the offer of assistance in obtaining these materials, and would like to request the Committee provide unredacted copies of records contained in the report, in order to further the Department’s ability to conduct a thorough and comprehensive assessment of that report based on the full range of information available,” Boyd wrote.
Fox News has learned that last month, the FBI first requested the unredacted documents from the committee.
Fox News is told that Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and Ranking Member Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said they needed to receive a letter and be assured that the documents would be used for investigative purposes.
The letter, sent to Grassley and Feinstein on Thursday, is a rare confirmation by the Justice Department of a federal investigation.
Trump says government will maintain funding if Planned Parenthood stops abortions services
“At this point, the records are intended for investigative use only—we understand that a resolution from the Senate may be required if the Department were to use any of the unredacted materials in a formal legal proceeding, such as a grand jury,” Boyd also wrote.
A spokesman for the committee told Fox News on Friday that they received the Department's "official request for unredacted copies of its 2016 report and we will work to cooperate fully."
In that final report entitled “Human Fetal Tissue Research: Context and Controversy” published in December 2016, Grassley referred Planned Parenthood and other providers to the FBI for investigation.
Grassley said at the time that the committee has discovered enough evidence that shows how abortion providers had transferred fetal tissue and body parts from aborted fetuses for research by charging amounts higher than they actually cost.
“The report documents the failure of the Department of Justice, across multiple administrations, to enforce the law that bans the buying and selling of human fetal tissue,” Grassley wrote last December urging the Justice Department and FBI to investigate. “It also documents substantial evidence suggesting that the specific entities involved in the recent controversy, and/or individuals employed by those entities, may have violated that law.”
Tucker and the executive vice president and chief brand officer of Planned Parenthood debate the GOP's health care plan's intent to cut funding over abortion services and its potential impact on the organization and women nationwide #Tucker Video
Planned Parenthood EVP: No one will bully, bribe us
Feinstein, however, said in a statement Friday that the 2016 report was only presented to the "majority," meaning the Republicans on the committee.
"I hope that there isn't a partisan purpose in taking this action and that the department handles the chairman's request in a professional and ethical manner," Feinstein said in a statement.
The now-federal investigation comes after a 2015 undercover investigation by activists David Daleiden, leader of the pro-life Center for Medical Progress, and Sandra Merritt, an employee of the group, who both posed as fetal researchers and made undercover videos of themselves trying to buy fetal tissue from Planned Parenthood.
The recorded conversations included officials from Planned Parenthood and StemExpress, a California company that provides blood, tissue and other biological material for medical research and has received fetal tissue from Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood, at the time, strongly rejected accusations it violated any law or acted unethically. The group also “strongly” disagreed with Grassley’s recommendations to refer the matter to the Justice Department “especially in light of the fact that the investigations by three other Congressional committees, and investigations in 13 states including a Grand Jury in Texas, have all shown that Planned Parenthood did nothing wrong.”
“Over two years ago, citizen journalists at The Center for Medical Progress first caught Planned Parenthood’s top abortion doctors in a series of undercover videos callously and flippantly negotiating the sale of tiny baby hearts, lungs, livers, and brains,” Daleiden said Thursday. “It is time for public officials to finally hold Planned Parenthood and their criminal abortion enterprise accountable under the law.”
The federal investigation by the Trump administration will reopen the years-long debate on whether Planned Parenthood and other providers violated the law with the illegal sale of body parts.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12764
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 04:34:34 PM » |
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Then there will be the issue of informed consent
Did woman know and knowingly sign a release to allow the sale and what complicity does she bear if she has done so?
I dont have the answers, perhaps there is no one answer and perhaps this is a STATES RIGHTS issue that does not belong to the federal government in the first place.
As someone with libertarian appreciation I am for less government on most levels, but agree the government should be able to assist us to stay safe. Therein lies the conundrum. As Karen said where does it begin and where does it end? When is a life a life that the vessel carrying it must yield to the life itself?
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15324
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 04:52:56 PM » |
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Isn't there a heartbeat at something like 18 days? My second daughter went through a voluntary abortion due to her own carelessness and it has weighed heavily on her mind and heart ever since. She was a junior in HS at the time, now age 57 and it still haunts her....sometimes to the point of tears. We have talked about what it takes to lift that burden of guilt, but it still lingers and probably will until the end of her time. I can't imagine the mental anguish some must feel after going through with such a process.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 05:00:37 PM » |
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I don't know about the selling of fetal tissue. But, I do know I have a hard time believing much of anything she said. I personally know women who have gotten many services other than abortions thru Planned Parenthood. That lady was either flat out lying or just plain stupid. |
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scooperhsd
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 06:08:33 PM » |
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Uh guys -
This whole story about Planned Parenthood doing this first came out over a year ago.
That being said - I find the whole idea reprehensible.
OTOH - IF the fetus is not viable when born - and dies shortly after birth - THEN I don't see an issue with "organ harvesting" with all the legal paperwork taken care.
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dinosnake
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 06:28:50 AM » |
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Then there will be the issue of informed consent
Did woman know and knowingly sign a release to allow the sale and what complicity does she bear if she has done so?
In a short word: Yes. Just a bit of research into the story, from more detailed and trusted sources, finds the complete details: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/us/politics/planned-parenthood-fetal-tissue-transfers-federal-investigation.htmlIn a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday, Stephen E. Boyd, the assistant attorney general for legislative affairs, requested unredacted documents underlying a 2016 investigation by the committee into the exchange of human fetal tissue that had been donated for research by women who get abortions. So the question seems to be about the handling after the consent, if they made too much money on the transfer; there is no "smoking gun" in regards to this happening 'under the table'. |
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baldo
Member
Posts: 6961
Youbetcha
Cape Cod, MA
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2017, 06:33:01 AM » |
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I don't know about the selling of fetal tissue. But, I do know I have a hard time believing much of anything she said. I personally know women who have gotten many services other than abortions thru Planned Parenthood. That lady was either flat out lying or just plain stupid. Another 'investigation' headed for the scrap heap..... |
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baldo
Member
Posts: 6961
Youbetcha
Cape Cod, MA
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2017, 06:39:45 AM » |
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So the question seems to be about the handling after the consent, if they made too much money on the transfer; there is no "smoking gun" in regards to this happening 'under the table'.
PP received reimbursement for their costs, which is legal under federal law. They've since changed their policy to receive NO reimbursement from researchers..... http://beta.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-abcarian-ppfa-charges-20170412-story.html |
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2017, 06:40:43 AM » |
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I don't know about the selling of fetal tissue. But, I do know I have a hard time believing much of anything she said. I personally know women who have gotten many services other than abortions thru Planned Parenthood. That lady was either flat out lying or just plain stupid. Another 'investigation' headed for the scrap heap..... Yeah,, kinda like the Collusion investigation  |
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 VRCC # 24157 |
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baldo
Member
Posts: 6961
Youbetcha
Cape Cod, MA
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 07:22:07 AM » |
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I don't know about the selling of fetal tissue. But, I do know I have a hard time believing much of anything she said. I personally know women who have gotten many services other than abortions thru Planned Parenthood. That lady was either flat out lying or just plain stupid. Another 'investigation' headed for the scrap heap..... Yeah,, kinda like the Collusion investigation  We'll see, won't we? |
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 07:32:21 AM » |
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I don't know about the selling of fetal tissue. But, I do know I have a hard time believing much of anything she said. I personally know women who have gotten many services other than abortions thru Planned Parenthood. That lady was either flat out lying or just plain stupid. Another 'investigation' headed for the scrap heap..... Yeah,, kinda like the Collusion investigation We'll see, won't we? Yes we will,, your projection record has not been good so far.  |
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VRCC # 24157 |
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 10:02:40 AM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2017, 10:12:10 AM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. |
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Serk
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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 10:14:23 AM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. If a teenager makes $100 a week from his job, and you say you'll give him $100 extra a week, but he can't use it for drugs and alcohol, then he uses the original $100 he has to buy drugs and alcohol because the $100 you gave him freed those funds up, are you not in effect paying for his drugs and alcohol? |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2017, 10:25:02 AM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. If a teenager makes $100 a week from his job, and you say you'll give him $100 extra a week, but he can't use it for drugs and alcohol, then he uses the original $100 he has to buy drugs and alcohol because the $100 you gave him freed those funds up, are you not in effect paying for his drugs and alcohol? Completely different scenario.  This would be more applicable. If I have a business selling widgets to people and I see a need for poor people to buy tidgets with a subsidy from the government. But the government says you can’t mingle the money you make from tidgets with you widgets . Then I would do that. Edit: really I think the problem most people have is they are against abortion. The Supreme Court has ruled it legal. Until that is overturned it’s a moot point. There are many rulings I don’t agree with, but it’s the best system we have. |
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 10:37:12 AM by meathead »
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f6gal
Administrator
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Posts: 6894
Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 11:08:12 AM » |
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but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. Sorry meathead, incorrect. |
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12764
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2017, 11:17:25 AM » |
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What scotus did was carve a.womans right to choose
The question up to what point is open
Look for the court to give a life yet unborn the right to be born subject to saving life of mother
Imho that will happen. Total of reversal of roe will not
I agree the birth of planned Parenthood was sinister control of black people's population
But right to abort is mother's at least 1st trimester
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 11:20:49 AM by Oss »
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 11:57:10 AM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. If a teenager makes $100 a week from his job, and you say you'll give him $100 extra a week, but he can't use it for drugs and alcohol, then he uses the original $100 he has to buy drugs and alcohol because the $100 you gave him freed those funds up, are you not in effect paying for his drugs and alcohol? Completely different scenario. This would be more applicable. If I have a business selling widgets to people and I see a need for poor people to buy tidgets with a subsidy from the government. But the government says you can’t mingle the money you make from tidgets with you widgets . Then I would do that. Edit: really I think the problem most people have is they are against abortion. The Supreme Court has ruled it legal. Until that is overturned it’s a moot point. There are many rulings I don’t agree with, but it’s the best system we have. So explain this to me. If somebody kills a woman who is pregnant, it's two counts of murder. But when a doctor performs an abortion wouldn't that be a contract killing? My grand daughter was born 2 months premature. She spent several months in NICU in a bubble. Now she is vibrant 9 year old. In the liberal mindset she could have been aborted at 7 months. My point is she lived even being born early. I don't care if it's legal. It's immoral. It's murder. |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16765
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2017, 12:43:39 PM » |
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I just got done reading another article on PP. It seams that PP released a statement by Danielle Campoamor who said that there is no difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. This has got to be the most adsurd thing I have ever heard anyone say in my life. Really?
A miscarriage is a loss of a little life due to a medical reason whereas an abortion is MURDER plain and simple. My sister lost a child many years ago at 8 months to a miscarriage. The experience left her distraught for a very long time. An abortion is a decision made because in most cases the pregnancy is a inconvenience. Planned Parenthood was founded by Magerate Sanger to control the black race. Don't believe me? Look it up. Hillary Clinton once said that Sanger was a hero of hers. I'm sure PP does some good for women but in my opinion not one cent of taxpayer money should be used to perform abortions,PERIOD.......
It doesn’t. If a teenager makes $100 a week from his job, and you say you'll give him $100 extra a week, but he can't use it for drugs and alcohol, then he uses the original $100 he has to buy drugs and alcohol because the $100 you gave him freed those funds up, are you not in effect paying for his drugs and alcohol? Completely different scenario. This would be more applicable. If I have a business selling widgets to people and I see a need for poor people to buy tidgets with a subsidy from the government. But the government says you can’t mingle the money you make from tidgets with you widgets . Then I would do that. Edit: really I think the problem most people have is they are against abortion. The Supreme Court has ruled it legal. Until that is overturned it’s a moot point. There are many rulings I don’t agree with, but it’s the best system we have. Actually, in my less than humble opinion Serk's example is exactly what happens with so called Planned Parenthood. BTW the Supreme Court ruled that slavery was legal. The word, moot, means debatable. Recently people have used it to mean debatable but without practical application. I agree the point is moot. I think the ruling of legal slavery was highly moot also. |
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:45:37 PM by Willow »
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ridingron
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2017, 12:44:35 PM » |
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I don't care if it's legal. It's immoral. It's murder. The supreme court said it was legal. In the eyes of the law, that makes it a medical procedure, not a murder. When something is legal, it doesn't make it "less" immoral as an opinion. Legal and illegal have nothing to do with right and wrong. Right and wrong are usually thought of as opinions when being used with legal concepts. Usually strongly held opinions. |
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:52:14 PM by ridingron »
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dinosnake
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2017, 12:58:57 PM » |
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Answered not in ordered originally posted. Some answers may seem a bit...short of courtesy...sorry. My grand daughter was born 2 months premature. She spent several months in NICU in a bubble. Now she is vibrant 9 year old. In the liberal mindset she could have been aborted at 7 months. Absolutely bogus and I'm tired of hearing it. It is called a woman's right to choose for a reason. WHY would it have been aborted, since your daughter wanted the baby? Maybe this issue has just as much to do with who is telling whom what to do, as the so-called "pro-life" cause? So explain this to me. If somebody kills a woman who is pregnant, it's two counts of murder. But when a doctor performs an abortion wouldn't that be a contract killing? That's a very honest question. The only thing I can posit is that it is / should not be up to society-at-large to decide the outcome of the pregnancy, so therefore the society takes the worst-case / largest penalty scenario. My point is she lived even being born early. I don't care if it's legal. It's immoral. It's murder.
That's a valid judgment. But please realize that it is a personal value judgement, not everyone feels the same way. And that's the entire argument in a nutshell: the pro-women's rights, "pro abortion" supporters aren't supporting abortions, per se - they are supporting the belief that it isn't their business to decide. If America was so "pro-life", then why do the poor, or simply the un/underinsured, have to fight for medical coverage for their families?? 'We're pro-life, you can't abort a child!! It's been born? Congratulations! ...it's your problem now" |
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Psychotic Bovine
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 01:15:07 PM » |
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Then there will be the issue of informed consent
Did woman know and knowingly sign a release to allow the sale and what complicity does she bear if she has done so?
In a short word: Yes. Just a bit of research into the story, from more detailed and trusted sources, finds the complete details: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/us/politics/planned-parenthood-fetal-tissue-transfers-federal-investigation.htmlIn a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday, Stephen E. Boyd, the assistant attorney general for legislative affairs, requested unredacted documents underlying a 2016 investigation by the committee into the exchange of human fetal tissue that had been donated for research by women who get abortions. So the question seems to be about the handling after the consent, if they made too much money on the transfer; there is no "smoking gun" in regards to this happening 'under the table'. New York Times a trusted source?!?!? hahahahahahahahahaha um hahahahahahahahahaha <snort> hahahahahahahahahaha <snicker> |
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"I aim to misbehave."
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Psychotic Bovine
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« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 01:28:11 PM » |
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For me the argument for abortion was settled after watching one video. Before I watch it, I was on the fence, or more to the point, I didn't really care. So, to educate myself I watch video of a late term abortion. When the legs and arms went limp as the scissors were forcibly pushed into the base of the skull, my mind was made up. It was murder.
Maybe there are some who can watch and say it's not murder. Honestly, if I had children, I wouldn't leave them with someone like that.
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"I aim to misbehave."
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 01:29:09 PM » |
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Answered not in ordered originally posted. Some answers may seem a bit...short of courtesy...sorry. My grand daughter was born 2 months premature. She spent several months in NICU in a bubble. Now she is vibrant 9 year old. In the liberal mindset she could have been aborted at 7 months. Absolutely bogus and I'm tired of hearing it. It is called a woman's right to choose for a reason. WHY would it have been aborted, since your daughter wanted the baby? Maybe this issue has just as much to do with who is telling whom what to do, as the so-called "pro-life" cause? So explain this to me. If somebody kills a woman who is pregnant, it's two counts of murder. But when a doctor performs an abortion wouldn't that be a contract killing? That's a very honest question. The only thing I can posit is that it is / should not be up to society-at-large to decide the outcome of the pregnancy, so therefore the society takes the worst-case / largest penalty scenario. My point is she lived even being born early. I don't care if it's legal. It's immoral. It's murder.
That's a valid judgment. But please realize that it is a personal value judgement, not everyone feels the same way. And that's the entire argument in a nutshell: the pro-women's rights, "pro abortion" supporters aren't supporting abortions, per se - they are supporting the belief that it isn't their business to decide. If America was so "pro-life", then why do the poor, or simply the un/underinsured, have to fight for medical coverage for their families?? 'We're pro-life, you can't abort a child!! It's been born? Congratulations! ...it's your problem now" My point was that a woman can legally abort late in the pregnancy. My grand daughter Jada was born at 7 months and lived. So a fetus at that point could live with help. My opinion is if a doctor could abort a baby at this time without a thought that makes them a heartless monster. Maybe if a woman had to watch a procedure done during this time they might change their mind. Just saying.... |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 02:26:47 PM » |
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Roe v Wade took place in 1973 I believe. Much has been learned since then. Just take a look at some video. There is a little human being in there at 12 weeks or less. Watch a video of an abortion, that little person is in there fighting for its life. That changed my mind.
I may be of a differing opinion of most or many here. I'm not completely against abortion. That said I feel it should be done within a certain [short] length of time [ I'm not sure of that time though, within 2-3 months maybe]. I think people should take responsibility for their actions, but we all know that STUFF happens, especially this kind of stuff and we know its hard on a kid to be raised when not wanted. I think more education on the subject would help.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 04:05:39 PM » |
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It is fairly simple for me. DNA is the scientific standard for Human identity. At conception, a unique DNA pattern exists and therefore a human individual exists. Clearly alive by the standards of science. It is at that moment that the individual has rights, the right to Due Process in particular.
I understand that there are situations in which abortion is a necessary procedure. But to arrive at that conclusion at those situations there must be Due Process afforded to the individual being aborted.
In my opinion, Roe v Wade cannot be overturned but can be made a moot decision. Ironically the standard used by the court to rule on Roe v Wade will be the same standard that makes the ruling moot, that being the Due Process clause in the 4th amendment. When applied to human life as defined by science and DNA standards, which the courts have accepted as fact in other cases, Roe v Wade is moot.
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Valker
Member
Posts: 3035
Wahoo!!!!
Texas Panhandle
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 06:14:59 PM » |
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Roe V Wade did not make abortion legal, it was already legal in many states. What it DID do is sidestep the 10th amendment and remove the states' rights.
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I ride a motorcycle because nothing transports me as quickly from where I am to who I am.
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12764
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 07:57:40 PM » |
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One can be for a mother's right to choose and ALSO
for the right of a fetus once it can survive outside the womb
To say that the day is not coming is to deny the inevitable progress of medicine. There will always be disagreement on the issue and that makes finding a fair ground a challenge for this and the next generation
Suppose SCOTUS rules a fetus at x weeks or some objective test is entitled to live its life, what happens if mother does not want the child? Surely there are millions who are looking to adopt that child so it does not become a ward of the state. And would such a decision would force women to decide to abort before such date? If it again becomes a state right issue what happens then
As a young man I was totally in favor of abortions at any time. As I age, am more aware of back issues and understand the emotional toll of abortion I am leaning toward control of the practice but not its end.
I suspect that my view may yet change in response to the next SCOTUS case As the father of a cancer survivor who is now pregnant I can only pray that the baby be born healthy. I know she will be loved when she arrives.
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 11:07:03 PM » |
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One can be for a mother's right to choose and ALSO
for the right of a fetus once it can survive outside the womb
To say that the day is not coming is to deny the inevitable progress of medicine. There will always be disagreement on the issue and that makes finding a fair ground a challenge for this and the next generation
Suppose SCOTUS rules a fetus at x weeks or some objective test is entitled to live its life, what happens if mother does not want the child? Surely there are millions who are looking to adopt that child so it does not become a ward of the state. And would such a decision would force women to decide to abort before such date? If it again becomes a state right issue what happens then
As a young man I was totally in favor of abortions at any time. As I age, am more aware of back issues and understand the emotional toll of abortion I am leaning toward control of the practice but not its end.
I suspect that my view may yet change in response to the next SCOTUS case As the father of a cancer survivor who is now pregnant I can only pray that the baby be born healthy. I know she will be loved when she arrives.
Congratulations on your upcoming Grandpaness.  |
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Robert
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« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2017, 04:17:00 AM » |
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A woman's right to choose ends when she decides not to keep her legs closed and not be prepared. A mans right to choose ends when he decides to do the deed and not be prepared. Under special circumstances and situations or health reasons or under rape then the woman did not give up her right to choose.
Now some use abortion as a birth control measure, some use babies as ways of making money. Doesn't it seem that its a bit sick. I remember one of the woman libbers saying Have as many abortions as you can.
Doesn't it also seem a bit sick for sexual gratification and not being prepared we are murdering children? Isn't this really what we are talking about in most cases today.
"Your so crazy I think I want to have your baby, the lyrics in some songs."
The other side is kids having babies not thinking through and the grandparents or even the parents having to take care of the kids. This can be a blessing or a curse or both.
No one is looking to take away a right of responsible mothers to decide the fate of their child. But what a sad state of affairs that we have to have the state tell mothers of the responsibility of bringing another life into the world. What happened to the love of a mother for her child?
Just like divorce it always leaves a scar on the people involved.
We are truly a sick society.
Late term abortion is murder, and why wait that long to decide.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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