Video of the shooting of Daniel Shaver: graphical content

[Savago]

Just watched the video at:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/12/10/daniel-shaver-philip-brailsford-shooting-bodycam-video-sandoval-pkg-newday-new.cnn

Disclaimer: the video has graphical content.

What you guys think?

[OnaWingandaPrayer]

and they want respect ? 

[Former BMW Guy]

Insufficient training.

[Serk]

I normally try to give LEOs the benefit of the doubt, but I've literally had night mares about this one. That was a ridiculous game of Simon Says, you mess up, you die.

They had him on the ground, just cuff him and get on with it, no need for all that cross your legs, hop on one foot or I'll kill you crap.

(Yeah, I know, easy to judge from the comfort of my keyboard.)

I know personally if I'm ever in that situation I'll get on the ground, face down, and flat out refuse to budge a muscle.

[Chrisj CMA]

The man disobeyed instructions. His actions were interpreted as threatening.  Seems in the realm of reasonable even if others may have acted differently

[Rams]

Based on the evidence I've read about and the videos, it was a reasonable action taken by the LEO and therefore, a not guilty verdict is justified.   

Initial reports were of a someone sticking a gun out a window, police were called.   (Seems like something like that occurred in Las Vegas not long ago).   Multiple people were in the room.  Who has a weapon?  Are there any other guns?   One of perpetrators/suspects is on his hands and knees crawling toward police as instructed but, is not totally responding to commands.   That individual reaches back toward his backside/waist.

I don't blame the LEO for taking the shots.   Every cop goes on calls like this knowing that they may not come home.   I don't blame the LEO.   It is extremely unfortunate the person shot couldn't/didn't follow instructions, everyone would have been better off.   I know this, when I'm stopped by police, I do as instructed and only do as instructed.   

We're all responsible for the dumb decisions and actions we take. who was it that pointed that gun out the window to start all this.   Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Based on the evidence I've read about and the videos, it was a reasonable action taken by the LEO and therefore, a not guilty verdict is justified.   

Initial reports were of a someone sticking a gun out a window, police were called.   (Seems like something like that occurred in Las Vegas not long ago).   Multiple people were in the room.  Who has a weapon?  Are there any other guns?   One of perpetrators/suspects is on his hands and knees crawling toward police as instructed but, is not totally responding to commands.   That individual reaches back toward his backside/waist.

I don't blame the LEO for taking the shots.   Every cop goes on calls like this knowing that they may not come home.   I don't blame the LEO.   It is extremely unfortunate the person shot couldn't/didn't follow instructions, everyone would have been better off.   I know this, when I'm stopped by police, I do as instructed and only do as instructed.   

We're all responsible for the dumb decisions and actions we take. who was it that pointed that gun out the window to start all this.   Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

It was a pellet gun he used in his extermination work. The problem I see with the video is it seemed the cop was looking for a reason to shoot him.

[DirtyDan]

Just watched video

IMHO the officer warned him

He is looking down the barrel of a rifle and gets STUPID with his hand

Dan

[baldo]

That cop will be hearing footsteps the rest of his life, as he friggin should. That was murder, plain and simple.

I don't want to hear a friggin word about not following instructions. That cop is an asshole, should not have a badge, let alone a gun.

[Rams]

That cop will be hearing footsteps the rest of his life, as he friggin should. That was murder, plain and simple.

I don't want to hear a friggin word about not following instructions. That cop is an asshole, should not have a badge, let alone a gun.

Well thankfully, the jury didn't see it that way.   I'm guessing that if someone reported a gun sticking out a window and you had to respond, you'd give that or those person(s) every opportunity to reach into their waist band and pull another weapon out.   Yeah, I'm sure..............   

Sorry Bob but the jury didn't see it that way and I agree with them.

[Robert]

I dont like the officers actions or handling of the situation, but the kid was warned. The situation was a threat but not immanent threat since the kid never

looked up at the cop when he reached behind his back. If he had looked up at the cop then I would have no problems with

what the cop did. Why under any stretch of the imagination when your life depends on doing exactly what the officer said why would you reach behind your back

with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. While the cop was legally within his rights to shoot, I wonder if he ever will think what if.

[3fan4life]

It's surprising to me how quickly this thread has divided into two distinct camps.

Here's the thing LEO's are not infallible.

As I watched the video two things stood out to me:

1) The officer gave too many instructions. For someone to process instructions they need to be simple and clear. The issuance of multiple instructions violated both of these fundamental rules.

2). There were multiple opportunities to handcuff the suspect. There was no reasonable need to have him jumping through so many hoops.

Someone in the video states that several experts stated that the officer was following his training. If that's the case then the training is wrong.  

I don't know if the officer was looking for a reason to shoot the guy, but his actions certainly made it more likely that shooting him would be the end result.

[Rams]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

I agree, I don't think anyone "likes" what happened.   Being a drunk idiot is no excuse.   
I'm just thankful that my children  never chose to go into law enforcement.   

Of course, both joined the military, daughter is still in and my son chose to be a fire fighter/para-medic.   Both have been shot at..................

Personally, I think they take after their mother....

[3fan4life]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The thing is why was the officer making him crawl around in the first place?

Placing him into handcuffs should've been a priority.

And the officer had multiple opportunities to do that.

[Serk]

According to one source I read the cop barking the orders and cussing him out was NOT the same one that pulled the trigger.

A more succinct way to explain my feelings on the situation is not so much to place blame on the cop that pulled the trigger at the instant that he did, as to put the blame on the cop that set him up to fail with this crazy convoluted game of Simon Says.

They had ample opportunity to cuff him and make the situation clear, instead they escalated it with this crazy scenario of complicated commands, which led to the guy getting confused and frustrated.

[baldo]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The cop behind the shooter was screaming at him to cross his ankles and crawl to him. That's fing impossible to do.  I challenge anyone here to do that. Every command given was loud and contradictory. The guy was scared shitless, as anyone here would be. As he tried to comply, he was falling forward. He reached back to pull his pants up, that's not my opinion, but from the detective that investigated. That's when the POS cop decided to plant 5 bullets in him, 4 of them in the top of his head!

[Rams]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The thing is why was the officer making him crawl around in the first place?

Placing him into handcuffs should've been a priority.

And the officer had multiple opportunities to do that.

At what point is the situation under control?   Remember what the LEOs were there to check out.   Also multiple suspects, see that corner behind the guy on the floor...........  Who's around that corner?   

I know this looks simple but, put yourself in the LEOs shoes.   Your life is at risk also.  You're responsible to "Protect and Serve" the rest of us.   It ain't all that easy of a decision to make in a split second..........  The Perp reaches behind him, quick, make a  decision...................

[baldo]

The thing is why was the officer making him crawl around in the first place?

Placing him into handcuffs should've been a priority.

And the officer had multiple opportunities to do that.

Exactly!

[3fan4life]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

Based on the evidence I've read about and the videos, it was a reasonable action taken by the LEO and therefore, a not guilty verdict is justified.  

Initial reports were of a someone sticking a gun out a window, police were called.   (Seems like something like that occurred in Las Vegas not long ago).   Multiple people were in the room.  Who has a weapon?  Are there any other guns?   One of perpetrators/suspects is on his hands and knees crawling toward police as instructed but, is not totally responding to commands.   That individual reaches back toward his backside/waist.

I don't blame the LEO for taking the shots.   Every cop goes on calls like this knowing that they may not come home.   I don't blame the LEO.   It is extremely unfortunate the person shot couldn't/didn't follow instructions, everyone would have been better off.   I know this, when I'm stopped by police, I do as instructed and only do as instructed.  

We're all responsible for the dumb decisions and actions we take. who was it that pointed that gun out the window to start all this.   Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I agree, I don't think anyone "likes" what happened.   Being a drunk idiot is no excuse.   
I'm just thankful that my children  never chose to go into law enforcement.   

Of course, both joined the military, daughter is still in and my son chose to be a fire fighter/para-medic.   Both have been shot at..................

Personally, I think they take after their mother....

I served in the Army and I worked as a FF/PM for 20 years.

I understand that every LEO wants to go home at the end of their shift.

So does every FF/PM.

I know that a FF who is afraid to fight fire is as useless as tits on a boar hog, so is a police officer that is too afraid to their job.

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

[Rams]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The cop behind the shooter was screaming at him to cross his ankles and crawl to him. That's fing impossible to do.  I challenge anyone here to do that. Every command given was loud and contradictory. The guy was scared shitless, as anyone here would be. As he tried to comply, he was falling forward. He reached back to pull his pants up, that's not my opinion, but from the detective that investigated. That's when the POS cop decided to plant 5 bullets in him, 4 of them in the top of his head!

If, you're gonna pull a gun, be prepared to use it, if you decide to use it, shoot to kill.   
Still got no problem with the LEOs actions.   The dead guy was simply stupid and he's the one that started all of this.   

My condolences to his family but..........................

[Rams]

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

So, had I been on that jury with you, based on what I've heard, read and seen, we'd have had a hung jury.

It is, what it is.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

It appeared to me the officer was intentionally confusing the guy both with his words and his screaming/yelling. If I stopped to get directions from that cop I would have been more confused after I talked to him than before talking to him. if that's the way they are trained then the training seems to focus more on being able to kill without consequence than it does on handling situations safely.

However, I'm not buying the training excuse.

He may have said what was needed to avoid being successfully prosecuted but I think either he wanted to kill that guy or he was so afraid he was unable to think or talk in a linear fashion. Either way, his LEO wings should be removed!

[3fan4life]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The thing is why was the officer making him crawl around in the first place?

Placing him into handcuffs should've been a priority.

And the officer had multiple opportunities to do that.

At what point is the situation under control?   Remember what the LEOs were there to check out.   Also multiple suspects, see that corner behind the guy on the floor...........  Who's around that corner?   

I know this looks simple but, put yourself in the LEOs shoes.   Your life is at risk also.  You're responsible to "Protect and Serve" the rest of us.   It ain't all that easy of a decision to make in a split second..........  The Perp reaches behind him, quick, make a  decision...................

Then he could've held the perp(s) at gunpoint until there were enough LEO's there to control the situation.

There was NO NEED to play an insane game of Simon says.

That is what led to the shooting.

This is either an example of Piss Poor Training or a cop on a huge Power trip.

Obviously, I have no idea which one it was.

[baldo]

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

I'd have been #2.....

[3fan4life]

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

So, had I been on that jury with you, based on what I've heard, read and seen, we'd have had a hung jury.

It is, what it is.

I'm betting that I could've convinced enough other jurors to see it my way.

I can be very persuasive.     

[Robert]

The cop said one thing that no one here is talking about and that is the cop said ,"unless you lie face down and put your hands behind your back". I personally if scared or confused would have fallen on my face especially when he said that.

The officer had other officers there in bullet proof vests, the kid was not a professional hit man, but the cop is not required by law to risk his life to save someone elses life in a situation like this.

I did not say morally but legally he is not and that is my problem with his actions. To me he did his job poorly and that caused someone else to loose their life. Should the cop go to jail for poor job performance, I dont think so even though someone lost their life.

[Rams]

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

So, had I been on that jury with you, based on what I've heard, read and seen, we'd have had a hung jury.

It is, what it is.

I'm betting that I could've convinced enough other jurors to see it my way.

I can be very persuasive.      

I don't believe they allow jurist to carry.............
Additionally, I believe it only takes one to hang a jury.   Your arguments would have to be fool proof and this discussion shows me that none of us can pull that one off.

[3fan4life]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The cop behind the shooter was screaming at him to cross his ankles and crawl to him. That's fing impossible to do.  I challenge anyone here to do that. Every command given was loud and contradictory. The guy was scared shitless, as anyone here would be. As he tried to comply, he was falling forward. He reached back to pull his pants up, that's not my opinion, but from the detective that investigated. That's when the POS cop decided to plant 5 bullets in him, 4 of them in the top of his head!

If, you're gonna pull a gun, be prepared to use it, if you decide to use it, shoot to kill.    

I fully agree, that's exactly what I was taught about using a gun.

But a police officer should be able to show restraint, especially when it comes to possibly ending someone's life.

Three times in my life I have had to point a gun at someone and decide whether it was necessary to kill them or not.

Fortunately, by continually assessing the situations as they developed I did not have to kill anyone.

Ending another person's life should ALWAYS be a last resort and the decision to do so should NEVER be taken lightly.

[3fan4life]

If I had been on that jury there would've been at least one guilty vote.

So, had I been on that jury with you, based on what I've heard, read and seen, we'd have had a hung jury.

It is, what it is.

I'm betting that I could've convinced enough other jurors to see it my way.

I can be very persuasive.      

I don't believe they allow jurist to carry.............
Additionally, I believe it only takes one to hang a jury.   Your arguments would have to be fool proof and this discussion shows me that none of us can pull that one off.

Re-watch the video.

The officer clearly had the drop on the guy.

It is clear that when his hand returned from behind his back it was empty.

With his weapon already trained on the perp the officer had the time to wait.

If I had not done so on one occasion there is one person who would no longer be walking this earth.

[Valker]

The video was NOT allowed to be shown to the jury.

[Rams]

Re-watch the video.

The officer clearly had the drop on the guy.

It is clear that when his hand returned from behind his back it was empty.

With his weapon already trained on the perp the officer had the time to wait.

If I had not done so on one occasion there is one person who would no longer be walking this earth.

Just like the jury, I don't need to see it again, watched it four times.   It's your opinion that the officer had the time.   You weren't there, I wasn't there.   I can't agree with you on this one.   When the guy reached, he's dead.   

[3fan4life]

The cop said one thing that no one here is talking about and that is the cop said ,"unless you lie face down and put your hands behind your back". I personally if scared or confused would have fallen on my face especially when he said that.

The officer had other officers there in bullet proof vests, the kid was not a professional hit man, but the cop is not required by law to risk his life to save someone elses life in a situation like this.

I did not say morally but legally he is not and that is my problem with his actions. To me he did his job poorly and that caused someone else to loose their life. Should the cop go to jail for poor job performance, I dont think so even though someone lost their life.

I know of at least one EMT that is in jail because he did his job poorly and accidentally killed a co-worker with a defibrillator.

Why should a police officer accidentally killing someone by doing his job poorly be any different.

I could agree to an involuntary manslaughter  conviction instead of second degree murder.

[3fan4life]

The video was NOT allowed to be shown to the jury.

Then why the hell are cops even wearing body cams?

[Rams]

The cop said one thing that no one here is talking about and that is the cop said ,"unless you lie face down and put your hands behind your back". I personally if scared or confused would have fallen on my face especially when he said that.

The officer had other officers there in bullet proof vests, the kid was not a professional hit man, but the cop is not required by law to risk his life to save someone elses life in a situation like this.

I did not say morally but legally he is not and that is my problem with his actions. To me he did his job poorly and that caused someone else to loose their life. Should the cop go to jail for poor job performance, I dont think so even though someone lost their life.

I know of at least one EMT that is in jail because he did his job poorly and accidentally killed a co-worker with a defibrillator.

Why should a police officer accidentally killing someone by doing his job poorly be any different.

I could agree to an involuntary manslaughter  conviction instead of second degree murder.

OK, again, neither of us was on the jury and we're not privy to everything they heard, saw and all the evidence.   Arm chair quarterbacking is what we're both doing.

Edited:  Getting late and I've got to drive to Milwaukee, Wisc and pick up a 62 Ford Galaxy that's destined to become a Barney Fife (Mayberry RFD) squad car in the morning.   Be safe, headed to lala land.

[3fan4life]

Re-watch the video.

The officer clearly had the drop on the guy.

It is clear that when his hand returned from behind his back it was empty.

With his weapon already trained on the perp the officer had the time to wait.

If I had not done so on one occasion there is one person who would no longer be walking this earth.

Just like the jury, I don't need to see it again, watched it four times.   It's your opinion that the officer had the time.   You weren't there, I wasn't there.   I can't agree with you on this one.   When the guy reached, he's dead.   

You're right we cannot agree.

I can't find any reason to justify "Trigger Happy" cops.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[OnaWingandaPrayer]

I heard this on radio today and just found this in some of the reporting I read tonight .

"Brailsford shot Shaver with a personal AR-15 rifle, which he was allowed to use, according to police reports.

The gun was inscribed with the phrase “you’re f*cked,” Tucson News Now reports.

The inscription on the gun was a violation of department policy, which was one of the reasons Brailsford was fired."

That's just a little twisted thinking to  inscribe that.

[Jersey mike]

The video was NOT allowed to be shown to the jury.

Then why the hell are cops even wearing body cams?

I have to agree. Why wasn't the jury permitted to see the footage?

here is what seems to be the full tape from the time when the man and woman walk out of the room, all the instructions, the shooting and up to the time when the cops try opening the door to the room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc

another video, from when the cops were locating the room and trying to get the man and woman out, it's 19min long from a different body camera. some of the audio between the officers is low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEOxyr1AQyY

if you notice after the shooting an officer comes out from the hallway across from their room so that area was secure.

if I was on the jury and not being allowed to see the video I'm not sure how I would have voted, I would have needed all the evidence and testimony but if the video was available I would have voted guilty.

[Firefighter]

All you guys know is what CNN wants you to know. You don't know what lead up to this, how the victim was acting or what he did. Your judgment is on a few seconds of video that may have been edited.

Serk, you said  I know personally if I'm ever in that situation I'll get on the ground, face down, and flat out refuse to budge a muscle.
 
Correct! he did not do that did he, the police clearly thought he was a threat.

[Gavin_Sons]

I dont like what the officer did or how he did it but the kid was warned. Why under any stretch of the imagination would you reach behind your back with a trigger happy cop standing there while crawling on all 4s. 

The cop behind the shooter was screaming at him to cross his ankles and crawl to him. That's fing impossible to do.  I challenge anyone here to do that. Every command given was loud and contradictory. The guy was scared shitless, as anyone here would be. As he tried to comply, he was falling forward. He reached back to pull his pants up, that's not my opinion, but from the detective that investigated. That's when the POS cop decided to plant 5 bullets in him, 4 of them in the top of his head!

If, you're gonna pull a gun, be prepared to use it, if you decide to use it, shoot to kill.   
Still got no problem with the LEOs actions.   The dead guy was simply stupid and he's the one that started all of this.   

My condolences to his family but..........................

This comment is amazes me. How bout we kill you next time you are stupid. That should fix the problem.   Can you not see that the comps had many opportunities to cuff him but chose to make her crawl with his legs crossed?  These cops should be hung. I hate dirty cops more than anyone. Then they wonder why they don't get the respect they think they should. When he was face down with his hands on his head is when they should have cuffed him. One officer in front with a bead on him and another from behind to cuff him. No one would have been killed. For anyone to say he was stupid and he got what he deserved is very ignorant. I'm sorry Ron, I like you and everything but i'm kinda put off from this comment.  

[Gavin_Sons]

All you guys know is what CNN wants you to know. You don't know what lead up to this, how the victim was acting or what he did. Your judgment is on a few seconds of video that may have been edited.

Serk, you said  I know personally if I'm ever in that situation I'll get on the ground, face down, and flat out refuse to budge a muscle.
 
Correct! he did not do that did he, the police clearly thought he was a threat.

Ummmm probably because he was told to crawl with his legs crossed.