Is the Democratic party Unconstitutional at the State level ?

[JerryG59]

Article IV, section IV of the Constitution states " The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; "  Since this country is a Constitutional Republic, and not a mob rule Democracy, where the rights of one can't be denied by the wishes of all the rest of the population. Could it be true that the Democratic party could be illegal at the State level according to the Constitution ?

[Moonshot_1]

Of course not.

You got Party A (Repub) and Party B (Dems)
Both Party A and B (and any and all other parties) ARE the Republican form of Government of which the Constitution speaks.

So Therefore It cannot be true. No matter how much one could wish it to be

How would one propose that a political party can exist at the Federal and County, Parrish, Town, City, Municipality level and not at the State level?

[JerryG59]

I need to check in to this further. It seems to me that we're devided by party. Makes me think of devide and conquer, and united we stand, devided we fall. I'm one of those people that thinks everything is a conspiracy to destroy the country. The more research i do the more i become convinced that that is the case. Good thing we have the Supreme Court to decide these things for us.....sarcasm.

[RoadKill]

Either way,spouting conspiracy theories wont fix it nor help any one fix or prepare. Most know something is wrong but wouldnt it be more productive to teach others to fish. Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.......  I have concluded that helping the Non-thinkers to think ,research and come to their own conclusions is the best first step. I am DAMN sure NOT the best to be teaching because I just sit in the boat and drink beer all day since I learned to fish  but I do what I can 

[JerryG59]

That section of the Constitution says the "United States guarantees" Maybe we aren't the United States anymore. Perhaps the Devided States would be more accurate. Could this be what the founding fathers intended. Can a politician belong to a party and still have a free and independent ideology ? Do we elect individuals or parties ? Does party remove power from the people and turn it over to the interests that control that party ?

[RoadKill]

Just ONE more of a long list of abuses to the constitution. It seems the majority has not only accepted it but has been dumbed down to the point of encouraging violations in trade for hand outs of any sort. Do what you can to encourage the type of "one republic" thinking our forefathers intended the voting masses to use . I usually suggest starting with educating those who choose not to vote at all ,but the Ignorant have voted in massive numbers lately so maybe that is where I will direct my efforts.

[x]

Article IV, section IV of the Constitution states " The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; "  Since this country is a Constitutional Republic, and not a mob rule Democracy, where the rights of one can't be denied by the wishes of all the rest of the population. Could it be true that the Democratic party could be illegal at the State level according to the Constitution ?

Hmmm... maybe it's the Republican party that could be illegal?  When one ignores minority rights, that's when you have mob rule.
 
More realistically, the only way the Constitutional principles get enacted is through interpretation and execution by the men and women in power at any given time.  Historically, there are lots of circumstances we would find repugnant now.
 
I agree that education is the key... and involvement.  People are not only woefully undereducated about government and issues, they are also not receiving much of an education in the fundamental principles of philosophy and ethics that enable people to decided when there are different options to govern.
 
It's not just about wanting a hand out... in fact, that is a convenient foil.  But it is true that people do take a short sighted view of decisions being made today.

[Moonshot_1]

Can a politician belong to a party and still have a free and independent ideology ?

No. To belong to a party, by virtue of definition, is to accept (at least in large part) the philosophies of that party.


Do we elect individuals or parties ?

You elect individuals (exception for President where you elect a slate of electors)
Whether they belong to a party or are indepentent is your distinction to make


Does party remove power from the people and turn it over to the interests that control that party ?


Power is derived from the people. The people may cede what they wish to the state and , by extention,
politicial party the people may vote into power. Such power ceded is difficult to get back.


Article IV is dedicated to the Guarantee of the Security of the States. The guarantee of a republican government is to guarantee a political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them. (Definition of a republic)
You cannot read "republican" in this to mean a political party.

[Willow]

Before one gets too carried away with applying party names to the words of the U.S. Constitution, one should remember that the Democratic party in its roots was called the Democratic Republican party and the Republican party, or the G.O.P, did not exist until almost one hundred years after the writing of the Constitution.

We have additionally lost the meaning of the term "states" in the United States of America.  It was not originally intended to to mean provinces, but sovereign nations.

It is right to see almost everything as conspiracies to destroy our country as that is exactly how democracy works.  People with like visions of what the country should be band together, compromise, and plan to bring about their own vision.  Obviously if their vision differs from mine I will see it as destructive to the country and, likewise, they will see my plans, and those of my co-conspirators, as destructive to the country they are planning.

Now while we can, let's get out there and enjoy our Valkyries.  Those who conspired to bring about the end of production of the mighty Valkyrie are working to further make us a nation of Goldwings.  Even within our own midst are those who have bought in to this insidious plot and have treasonously mixed these despicable Wings into their heretofore unsullied Valkyrie stables.

Valkyrie riders of the world unite!  We may truthfully be a dying breed, but we have as yet finished neither dying nor breeding.


                

[Momz]

Hey JerryG59,

Let me get this straight; you believe that there should only be one political party?

How about you starting a recall campaign for Obama? Or maybe you could contact your conservative senators and representatives to start a Presidential impeachment process.

I'm sure that McCain/Palin would have made your world better.

(The level of political ignorance in this country is so very rampant, so as to be quite scary.)

[Michael K (Az.)]

Before one gets too carried away with applying party names to the words of the U.S. Constitution, one should remember that the Democratic party in its roots was called the Democratic Republican party and the Republican party, or the G.O.P, did not exist until almost one hundred years after the writing of the Constitution.

We have additionally lost the meaning of the term "states" in the United States of America.  It was not originally intended to to mean provinces, but sovereign nations.

It is right to see almost everything as conspiracies to destroy our country as that is exactly how democracy works.  People with like visions of what the country should be band together, compromise, and plan to bring about their own vision.  Obviously if their vision differs from mine I will see it as destructive to the country and, likewise, they will see my plans, and those of my co-conspirators, as destructive to the country they are planning.

Now while we can, let's get out there and enjoy our Valkyries.  Those who conspired to bring about the end of production of the mighty Valkyrie are working to further make us a nation of Goldwings.  Even within our own midst are those who have bought in to this insidious plot and have treasonously mixed these despicable Wings into their heretofore unsullied Valkyrie stables.

Valkyrie riders of the world unite!  We may truthfully be a dying breed, but we have as yet finished neither dying nor breeding.


                

AAaaahahahaha!!!!
Well Carl, looks like you've done it again! (cleaning coffee from nostril area!)

[fstsix]

Well again we went from original topic, to party separation Not what G59 was after. But here is my Favorite Republican.http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16500

[Puffs Daddy]

Suffice to say that there are no examples of democratic political systems without political parties. There are, however, numerous examples of dictatorships without political parties. The basis of this virtually universal correlation is left as an exercise for the reader.

[valkmc]

Suffice to say that there are no examples of democratic political systems without political parties. There are, however, numerous examples of dictatorships without political parties. The basis of this virtually universal correlation is left as an exercise for the reader.

True, I believe the problem with parties is the limit to two only. Yes there are many more in this country, but try to get your name on a ballot if you are not Dem, or Rep. it is possible but difficult. Also try to compete with the major parties w/o their funding, mostly paid by people with interest in some thing they want help with, again very difficult.

To me both of the major parties have been bought and paid for, and the politicians who represent them have to make deals against their beliefs to get elected. We end up with either very deluted leadership or leadership based on the dollar and who can afford it.

[Puffs Daddy]

Suffice to say that there are no examples of democratic political systems without political parties. There are, however, numerous examples of dictatorships without political parties. The basis of this virtually universal correlation is left as an exercise for the reader.

True, I believe the problem with parties is the limit to two only. Yes there are many more in this country, but try to get your name on a ballot if you are not Dem, or Rep. it is possible but difficult. Also try to compete with the major parties w/o their funding, mostly paid by people with interest in some thing they want help with, again very difficult.

To me both of the major parties have been bought and paid for, and the politicians who represent them have to make deals against their beliefs to get elected. We end up with either very deluted leadership or leadership based on the dollar and who can afford it.

It's not legal restrictions. In fact, in most states lots of parties appear on the ballot and it's not at all difficult.  However, the nature of single member constituencies and the national, independent election of the President more or less guarantees only two major political parties. Want more? Change the US system to a parliamentary system as found in most European countries.

[Moonshot_1]

[True, I believe the problem with parties is the limit to two only. Yes there are many more in this country, but try to get your name on a ballot if you are not Dem, or Rep. it is possible but difficult. Also try to compete with the major parties w/o their funding, mostly paid by people with interest in some thing they want help with, again very difficult.

To me both of the major parties have been bought and paid for, and the politicians who represent them have to make deals against their beliefs to get elected. We end up with either very deluted leadership or leadership based on the dollar and who can afford it.
[/quote]

No where in the Constitution does it say that this is going to be easy or an amendment that will have us all come together singing Kumbya and dance the night away.
This is an experiment in Self rule. It is hard. Change for the good can happen but it takes a lot of work and patience. It takes knowlege of how the system works and how it is SUPPOSED TO WORK under the Constitiution. You can't get a third party together to try and elect a president and expect the world to change. Even if you win.
It takes a lot of work and time begining at the local and state levels to establish viable political parties.  Time to create stable base and hard work and perserverence to maintain it.

It ain't easy. If it was everybody would be doing it.

[3fan4life]

Now while we can, let's get out there and enjoy our Valkyries.  Those who conspired to bring about the end of production of the mighty Valkyrie are working to further make us a nation of Goldwings.  Even within our own midst are those who have bought in to this insidious plot and have treasonously mixed these despicable Wings into their heretofore unsullied Valkyrie stables.

Valkyrie riders of the world unite!  We may truthfully be a dying breed, but we have as yet finished neither dying nor breeding.


    

NOW THERE..... is a political cause that ALL of us should support!!!!!   

[JerryG59]

Thanks for the post Moonshot_1. I think you nailed it and answered my question. I can't find anything in the constitution that refers to any party of any kind. It appears to me that republican refers to our form of Government and not to a party. I see no reason to be loyal to a party, only to the constitution. I also noticed that there's no amendment that gives the federal reserve the authority to coin money and regulate the value there of. This power seems to me to have been taken from congress without an amendment. If i'm right then the federal reserve act was illegal no matter how it was pushed through. But that's another subject. I also don't see anything giving the President the authority to take us off the Gold standard. Thanks for the posts everyone....Good stuff.

[fstsix]

Look at this conversation. http://en.allexperts.com/q/U-S-History-672/Democratic-Republican-Party.htm