Rear tire on the front

[Gabriel]

I just put this Shinko 130-90-V17 rear tire on the front.
Machine checked the balance before adding plastic BB's and it called for a 1/4 of an ounce.
This 'stinko' tire has a good rating it's aramid belted and V rated and it rolls smooth as glass and has lots of rubber. People get around 8K out of this tire on the rear so I should get probably twice that (maybe), I also understand it's very sticky which I really like, sticky tires don't last as long but this rear on the front should do pretty good...

[cookiedough]

Is that the shinko 230 tourmaster?

I have it on my I/S as well but front tire for front rim and so far so good.

[RDKLL]

170/60-17 Battlaxe...

[Gabriel]

Is that the shinko 230 tourmaster?

I have it on my I/S as well but front tire for front rim and so far so good.

You are correct 230 tourmaster

[Valkorado]

Looks good.  Keep us posted on this tire up front.  I've been back and forth with double dark, back in now on the IS with a Battlax BT-45 reverse rotation.  It handles good.  Maybe the only drawback is some tire noise in the twisties.

I tried the Michelin Pilot Activ reversed but it had a vibration that was very noticeable in the handlebars at lower speeds.  Could have been a bad tire.

Lots of beefy tread on that Battlax, it should last for quite awhile.

[LB]

If you put the rear tire on the front, you have to mount it backwards in the opposite rotation it was on the rear. Failure to do so will result in front wheel hydroplaning under hard braking. Check out any  other motorcycles and you will see the front tire pattern is the opposite of the rear tire pattern. That is the reason for the mounting arrows they put on the sidewalls. The rear tire pattern prevents hydro while under power, and the front tire pattern prevents hydro while braking. If you don't put the rear tire on backwards, you'll force and trap the water under the tread when you grab a fist full of front brake, followed by Oh Sh%%....... You have it installed incorrectly in your photo.

[Jess from VA]

Actually, what I have read is that a rear on front should be reversed not because of water dispersal, but because of tire construction and cord stacking on hard braking.... and we know 75% or more of braking power is done with the dual front disks which is transferred to the front tire against the pavement.

I'm no tire engineer, but I've looked at tire treads carefully and they mostly look like they push water out to the side either way they may be mounted.  (some tread patterns don't look like they push water to the side much at all) (your tire looks like it pushes water to the side just fine, however it's mounted)

I have no idea how a tire is built and cords laid in during construction in some rotational manner, but that bit of information on cord stacking sounded good enough for me to reverse the one rear I tried on the front.  It was a lousy tire, slippery for hundreds miles when new, and the 130 carcass was just not up to par strength-wise (Avon Roadrider bias).  And I did not get any extra miles from the deeper rear tire tread depth, and was very happy to get rid of it.  I'm not saying no 130 can do the job, but that one was substandard to me (cranking and banking in mountain elevations with hard turns).  Wings run 130 fronts.

I've been running a 140 Michelin Commander II radial front on the front (but shorter/less sidewall than OE), and it is a great tire in all conditions, and no release agent at all when new.  But it barely gets to 7K before it's done.

I'll also be interested in a longevity (and performance) report on your Shinko.


 

[Gabriel]

When I put a rear tire on the front of my Wing in 2010 I contacted the manufacturer (Bridgestone or Michelin, I can't remember) and spoke to one of their engineers and he said you can run it in either direction so I put it on backwards.
However since then I was thinking about how much load was on the rear tire of a maxed out Wing when braking hard, I never worried about the rear tire on the front since.
My understanding is that a directional tire only effects the actual tread and noting else. Directional tires have an advantage when it comes to hydroplaning but mostly effecting cars with a much wider and flat foot print. (that ain't us)
Even on car tires it value has diminishing returns but some tires on some cars see as much as an 18% improvement @ 100 Km and hour (again that ain't us), however it is dependent on many factors that is convoluted at best. Here is that criteria;
"The measurable differences in hydroplaning seem to relate to coefficient of adhesion, pavement fluid depth, fluid viscosity, fluid density, tire inflation pressure, tire load, tire tread pattern (size of lugs and voids) and tire-tread depth. As far as I can find, the rotational appearance of tread pattern seems to have more to do with effective marketing suggesting higher designed performance is thereby attained."
So in the end it looks like to me that most of what you see when viewing a tire is pure marketing and I already know that a tire is first designed by marketing before it is sent to engineering...
==========================================================
In the end I think my little stinko tire will be OK...
BTW; This new tire handles so much better than my Avon cobra which may not be saying a lot because it was slightly cupped and eight years old but not worn out. Of course I may crash and burn in the rain and it may wear out in just a few miles but one thing is for sure I will share it here...

 

[old2soon]

140-80-17 Shinko 777 in white wall on the front. I am on my 2nd 777 as I got 24500+ outa the first one. Rain dry heat cold I like them. Smidge over 2oz of BBs as my balance media. I'd rather pay for a Shinko than be given a new dunflop. RIDE SAFE.

[Gabriel]

I'm using these, I put 1 ounce in because the tire only called for 1/4 ounce on the machine.

[Fla. Jim]

18 yrs later still the same question !

http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/terminalvalkocity/reversetire.html
Run Rear Tire on Front

By Jim Smith (Floridajim) on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 08:30 am:


And now time for something completely different! I am running Dunlop 491 elite-2's on my valk. The rear is a 160/80/16 same size as comes on the wing the front is a MT90/17 a rear tire I am running backwards for safety reasons. The current rear tire is my second time around with this model tire. I got 11,600 miles with the first one with 1/32's tread remaining when I changed out I run 41 psi. At 5,600 miles on this one I have 6/32's of tread left so I should get around the same again (if I can stop snatching 2nd, trigger wheel makes me do it!). The elite front at the same 5,600 miles has used exactly 1/32 of rubber running 36psi for handling reasons, so it will probably dryrot before I wear it out(at current wear 50,000 + Miles??) It currently has 10/32's of tread left. I drive mostly single and moderately fast with ½ city & ½ country driving in South coastal Fla. so there isn't a lot of twisties. The current set up is handling very well, not as sticky as the stock but I don't ride in any road races or try to tame mountain roads either, I do scrape the running boards at speed on a regular basis on my favorite road and have never been fearful the tires would break loose in a hard curve. There is also no tread noise as with the stock tires. This set up is more than fine for my capabilities and road conditions. Just my experience. Your mileage of course "will" vary due to different riding style and road conditions. Jim (-=

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By don r. tyler (Txduke) on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 06:05 pm:
do what......running a rear wing tire backwards on the front of the valkyrie? i thought all motorcycle tires were directional......what is the safety reason for this ? please let me know!
me dont understand......thanks

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By Jim Smith (Floridajim) on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 08:16 am:
This is a long answer to a short question. But you asked.Posted by Fla. Jim on Wed - Apr 26 - 09:51am:

Dunlop was no help at all (go figure!!) so I went to my local tire company that has always answered straight questions with straight answers. Here is my question and their reply.
-----Original Message-----
From: Smithjos@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 3:09 PM
To:
Subject: Useing rear tire on front

Hello: I am currently using a rear tire on the front of my bike. I have heard a lot of disclaimers and read a lot more about why not to do this so I understand you can't condone this practice. I also understand this was quite a common practice some years back when front and rear tires were the same size. It seems back then whenever they did this they turned the rear tire backwards, with the logic being that the rear was designed to push not brake? Since I now have over 3,000 mile of stop and go running with multiple hard stops and no problems to date can you think of a reason I should turn the tire backwards? The tire in Question is not of your manufacture and I promise to keep the "****" name out of any correspondence I may have with other bikers. I will continue to run the rear on the front no matter what your reply. I am just curious as to the "best" rotation to run it. Your Company has always been straight up in answering my questions, so in advance I thank you for your reply. Jim Smith, South Florida

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Hi Jim
Yes you should turn the tyre around, to run against its direction arrows. This is because of the way the tread joint is made on the tyre. When braking the forces generated will try to open the tread jointing of the tyre. This will be prevented if the tyre is run in reverse direction

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Hi again, Thanks for your prompt reply. Not knowing proper tire manufacture terminology I am somewhat confused with your reply. "This is because of the way the tread joint is made on the tyre. When braking the forces generated will try to open the tread jointing of the tyre." By tread joint are you referring to the tread pattern, or the way the belts are laid under the tread? Thanks again Jim Smith

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Hi jim
Please excuse me. The tread is applied to a tyre as a flat wide strip of rubber. When moulded the pattern is added. The ends of the tread obviously have to be joined together prior to moulding. The ends of the tread are not butt jointed together, but cut at a steep angle & then joined together. This obviously makes the joint area larger to help absorb the stress placed upon it. Therefore because they are joined at an angle, if you rotate the tyre in one direction you will (in effect) close the joint once every rotation. If you rotate it in the other direction you will try to open the joint once every rotation. A rear tyre is arrowed to close the joint on every rotation of the tyre as it is put under power.


The same tyre would have to be mounted against its rotation arrow on the frontbecause although in normal use the joint is running the wrong way, there is no force being applied to it (the front wheel is just running along without the application of power). however when you brake, a strong force is pushing from the rear to the front of the motorcycle, & this would open up the tead joint, possibly leading to the tread shearing off the tyre completely. Therefore, if you run the rear tyre backwards on the front, braking forces will then be trying to close the tread joint, overall the best situation. Its a little complicated, I know. To follow it better use an orange, a pen & a cheese grater. With the pen draw a slight arc on the orange, and imagine this to be the tread joint. rotate this as a rear tyre & press the grater into the bottom of it, forcing it backwards. Now do the same again but turn the grater around. The first time that you do it, you will see the scar from the grater is the same angle as the curve. The second time the grater mark will curve the wrong way. Therefore to use this orange as a front tyre (but still get the grater mark to be the same, you have to turn the orange around

I hope this has been of use to you.

[Gabriel]

18 yrs later still the same question !

I wonder why that never happens on the rear tire?

[Fla. Jim]

From my above post.

" A rear tyre is arrowed to close the joint on every rotation of the tyre as it is put under power."

[Jess from VA]

Thanks Jim.   

That is a better and more detailed explanation of what I referred to in my post of cord stacking, and how bike tire manufacturing methods lead to consistent advice on reversing rears on front applications. 

You'll notice an absence of water dispersion in that discussion.

While modern manufacturing methods and materials may make it unlikely you could pull a rear on front (not reversed) apart at the seam, reversing it just seems like the better part of good discretion, and no harm.  Water being irrelevant.

     

[Gabriel]

From my above post.

" A rear tyre is arrowed to close the joint on every rotation of the tyre as it is put under power."

Under hard breaking, I have never seen the tread come apart, it may do it but I have never seen it.
It is only the tread that is different on a directional tire. Reading all that I can find about it.

BTW; I'm talking about a rear tire going in the correct direction mounted on the rear...

[Fla. Jim]

From my above post.

" A rear tyre is arrowed to close the joint on every rotation of the tyre as it is put under power."

Under hard breaking, I have never seen the tread come apart, it may do it but I have never seen it.
It is only the tread that is different on a directional tire. Reading all that I can find about it.

BTW; I'm talking about a rear tire going in the correct direction mounted on the rear...

Never seen it either but I "Assumed" the tire manufacture knew what they shared.

[Gabriel]

Here is something interesting;
Michelin reversed the tread pattern on the Pilot road 5.

Start at the 3:10 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFn_6XvutxI