Rear brake lock up 2014 Valkyrie

[Speedracer28]

I have a 2014 Valkyrie with almost 6k miles that the rear brake has locked up on me twice resulting in a crash. The first time was a few years ago when the bike had 2k miles. I was trying to avoid hitting a deer and was into a corner when this happened. When I hit both front and rear brakes, the rear locked up which started to make the bike fish tail. I ended up putting it in a ditch then versus laying it down. I had the bike fixed for the cosmetic damage at the time. I was riding again this past Sunday when I was into a turn at about 30 MPH and saw some water on the road ahead of me in the turn. Again I slightly applied the front and rear brake when all of a sudden the rear locked up. The bike then high sided and threw me off. I ended up on the road breaking my right arm and got a nice gash above me eye. The bike is totaled.

I know Honda had the rear brake recall on the Gold Wings for locking up or sticking, but not the Valkyrie. Has anyone had a similar experience with their 14-15 Valkyrie with non-ABS?  I have been riding for over 40 years now and never had any of my bikes rear tire lock up on me.

[kcole683]

The only time mine has locked up was with new tires down shifting too soon Or aggressive use of the rear brake. Operator failure in my cases.

The factory tires weren't the best.

Learning how to brake a bike successfully without a tied brake system is something most casual riders need to practice in my opinion.

I've never ridden a bike with abs tied brakes. Wouldn't know how to act if I had this luxury. Haha

[Bill Havins]

Oh, yeah!  If you are riding quickly and apply the brakes vigorously the non-ABS Valkyrie rear will lock up!  I have had to hit the brakes hard at least twice when cars pulled out in front of me; locked up the rear very briefly both times with no real difficulty.  But, I used to race in semi-pro races on oval tracks and am very comfortable using the brakes to start a bike sliding and then using the power band to keep the bike sliding around a corner.  So, I thought nothing of it both times I locked up the rear.

There is not much feedback to the rider on the Valkyrie rear brake.  It is easy to over-do.

"Linked" or "Proportional" brakes would be very nice on the Valkyrie.  But they went with ABS for those who wanted anything near to such.

Be careful!

Bill

[kcole683]

I've only owned three bikes now. Both of the other ones had rear drum brakes on them. It took a lot more effort to get braking on the rear let alone lock up.  
Compared to the drum brakes these will lock up easy.

I have a friend with an old school Valkyrie running a car tire. He said it had great traction and has never got it to break loose yet.

[DGS65]

years ago locking and sliding my rear tire on my Virago likely saved my live.  Knowing how to counter it is an acquired skill not all possess.  Riding on the dirt or racing is an advantage for those that did those that didn't have to learn on the fly not much fun!
Glad you are OK!  We have all had our close calls and yet we continue to ride,  hopefully this won't stop you!

[Speedracer28]

I’ve been riding for over 40 years so I am not an inexperienced rider. I have owned and ridden many bikes and have encountered a few emergency braking situations over the years. I have never wrecked or locked up my rear brake in any of those situations. I also own a 2012 Goldwing that has never locked up the rear brake. I have taken and passed several motorcycle safety courses over the years and I am confident that I know the difference between normal and emergency braking. I was not in an emergency braking situation when my accident occurred the other day so I shared my experience because I am concerned it could happen to others. I am not trying to bash or put down the bike - it is honestly my most favorite bike in all my years of riding. I am just not understanding why the rear brake locked up so quickly and under light braking. Thus my post asking others if it has happened to them.

[sleepngbear]

I’ve been riding for over 40 years so I am not an inexperienced rider. I have owned and ridden many bikes and have encountered a few emergency braking situations over the years. I have never wrecked or locked up my rear brake in any of those situations. I also own a 2012 Goldwing that has never locked up the rear brake. I have taken and passed several motorcycle safety courses over the years and I am confident that I know the difference between normal and emergency braking. I was not in an emergency braking situation when my accident occurred the other day so I shared my experience because I am concerned it could happen to others. I am not trying to bash or put down the bike - it is honestly my most favorite bike in all my years of riding. I am just not understanding why the rear brake locked up so quickly and under light braking. Thus my post asking others if it has happened to them.

Under 'normal' braking, do you feel anything in the pedal that might indicate a warped rotor?

The only other thing that comes to mind that's remotely similar to your experience was with my '05 VTX1800 -- a piece of a ring broke off in the rear master cylinder that cause the pads to not fully retract after the brakes were applied. The thing had so much torque that I never noticed until they eventually heated up the fluid in the line and bound up. Just throwing those out there, but neither of them sound like what you've experienced.

[Bill Havins]

Sounds like it's time for a trip to the dealer.  Something's amiss.

[ledany]

Oh, yeah!  If you are riding quickly and apply the brakes vigorously the non-ABS Valkyrie rear will lock up! 
There is not much feedback to the rider on the Valkyrie rear brake.  It is easy to over-do.

"Linked" or "Proportional" brakes would be very nice on the Valkyrie.  But they went with ABS for those who wanted anything near to such.

Bill

I think you have the answer here ! I have the ABS on my Valk (because the ABS is no option in Europe) and I often feel the ABS working on the rear. Every time I feel the ABS on the rear I think it is way too intrusive because I swear my foot is very light - and to tell the truth, I use the rear brake mostly at very low speed. Of course, I use both brakes in case of emergency but then it's higher speed and in these cases I've never felt the ABS working. Btw, I've never felt the ABS working on the front brakes  

Sorry for your crash and your arm. In France we've left behind the dispute about the ABS because it's compulsory on the bikes since 2016. Before that, all my (german-austrian) bikes had the ABS because you may not need it but once and this one occasion may really matter ! 

[Speedracer28]

Thanks Ledany. I think ABS would of definitely prevented my crash. I even said the same thing to the Police officer that investigated my incident. I do know that if I get another Valkyrie or any other bike that it will have ABS on it.

[pago cruiser]

Compared to the Legacy Valks, the 2014+ brakes feel like they are power assist.  Way different!

And yet...from an older post on the forum:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74500.0.html

Stopping distances from 60 to 0:
97 Valk 60-0 in 107.4'.  This is like the 4th best braking of any production motorcycle made, ever.
2014 Valk 60-0 in 123.7'. 

Yet if you ride the two generations of Valks back to back, you'd think... WTF? The 2014 brakes perform way better.

As one of the posters in the linked thread indicated, it may come down to putting the rubber on the road.  All that braking power needs to interface with the asphalt.  And hands down, the Legacy Valk front tire has prolly a 3X larger contact patch than the 2014 Valk.   

Back to a solution; it should be possible to link the brakes, like the older GL1200 and GL1500; I really like the linked system on the GL1200.  I'm doing this now on my Legacy Valk Hack, using VTX 1800 3 pot calipers and the proportioning valve from the same bike.  No electrics required. 

It may also be possible to add ABS to the un-ABS'd 2014+ Valks.  I know the wiring harness is different, there is a small ABS computer, sensors on the wheels, a small turn-signal flasher sized relay, and hoses.  IIRC the ABS added $1000 to the MSRP. I'd bet it could be done for maybe $2k after the fact.   

And again, sorry for your and the bikes damage.  Heal up fast!

And shame on Honda for still selling bikes like the Valk, with such amazing performance figures, without ABS...

[Robert]

Did you have the OEM rear tire on the bike, both times?

In the first situation was there moisture on the road?

What was the rear tire inflation pressure?

Did you continue to have your foot on the brake even when you found it locking up?

ABS is not necessarily the answer.

I often feel the opposite that my rear brake is very hard to lock up.

What was the adjustment on the rear brake?

After the first close call did you have someone check the rear brake?

The rear brake can be adjusted to compensate for riders by adjusting the height of the pedal. I would check this if the bike is still around.

I would not ride the bike with the OEM rear tires either because I had one slip out on me on acceleration on a test drive while on a wet road.

If you are offended at all by the questions, dont be, they are merely questions to find a possible issue. It could be the caliper but I doubt.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I don't know that this has anything to do with it. The rear brake on my 2016 F6B was inconsistently grabby until I had about 3000 miles on it. Then it suddenly stopped grabbing and is still fine at 3600 miles.

I attributed it to slightly contaminated pads from the factory or some quirk of the linked brake system but I don't really know. Just glad it seems to have healed it's self. The brake pedal travel seemed to increase slightly when it quit grabbing for some reason also.

I'm not a fan of the linked brake system. When riding gravel roads, in-particular gravel roads with off camber corners I would prefer to leave my front brake out of it but the linked brakes don't give you that option.

Also, if you've studied the hydraulic schematic of the linked brake system it seems very "Rube Goldberg" like and makes me surprised it ever works consistently.

[Speedracer28]

Did you have the OEM rear tire on the bike, both times? YES

In the first situation was there moisture on the road?  NO

What was the rear tire inflation pressure?  40 PSI

Did you continue to have your foot on the brake even when you found it locking up? NO - LEFT UP ON THE PEDAL WHEN I FELT IT LOCKING UP

ABS is not necessarily the answer. ??

I often feel the opposite that my rear brake is very hard to lock up.

What was the adjustment on the rear brake?  THERE IS NO ADJUSTMENT ON DISC BRAKES THAT I AM AWARE OF

After the first close call did you have someone check the rear brake? NO

The rear brake can be adjusted to compensate for riders by adjusting the height of the pedal. I would check this if the bike is still around. PEDAL IS IN STOCK LOCATION

I would not ride the bike with the OEM rear tires either because I had one slip out on me on acceleration on a test drive while on a wet road.

If you are offended at all by the questions, dont be, they are merely questions to find a possible issue. It could be the caliper but I doubt. NO OFFENSE TAKEN

[hubcapsc]

I would not ride the bike with the OEM rear tires either because I had one slip out on me on acceleration on a test drive while on a wet road.

My 1800 slipped (my knee hit the handlebar) side ways under acceleration on a wet road with a PR5 on there...
Our bikes can slip tires  ...

-Mike

[Dusty]

 I wouldn't be surprised if there is  debris in your brake fluid that blocked off  the return  port. On the first time it locked up I can understand  that  the brake would stay locked up. The second lockup doesn't make  sense in that  if you only applied light pressure and the return port was blocked the rear brake would only drag and not lockup. I don't own an 1800 but a  hydraulic mechanic for a lot of years.My $.02

 Hope you heal up soon.


Dusty

[Robert]

Didnt respond sooner because I was thinking about what you said and I think it would be a good idea to check these points.

ABS would not have been a help in this case possibly if it was indeed the rear caliper that locked up. Since the ABS would still have a locked caliper and not be able to regulate the braking.

For me, personally, I would, after the first time checked the brakes especially since personally I know about the caliper problem. I may have even replaced my caliper if there was any question of working properly. If the dealer did not want to do something for me under warranty I wouldn't care, I would do it anyway.

I would also inspect the rear caliper now and see if I can get it to hang up. I would remove the caliper from the bike and look at the pads, the rotors and the caliper itself. I would before taking it apart see if the pistons or pads have a hesitation in being pushed back in. ON disassembly I would look at the inside bores of the pistons to determine if there was any steps, if it was perfectly smooth and if there were no marks on the bore. I would also inspect the brake slides before I pulled the caliper off to make sure they were not holding or binding. Check the brake pads to see if they look melted or scorched at all and inspect the rotor for heat marks or unusual wear.

The other thing would be inspect the master cylinder and make sure it goes all the way out or piston out to make sure that didn't hang up as well as checking the rear brake pedal to make sure there is no binding or holding when moved. Inspect the lines to make sure they are not kinked at all and check the hoses to make sure there is no restriction in them.

If the caliper was hanging up there should be some polished or ever so slightly indented area on the inside of the caliper bores. The pistons when cleaned should not bind in the bores either and have no wiggle room in the bores. They should fit snugly and be able to smoothly be able to move them in and out without binding.

The last thing is the pads in the holder should not have significant up and down movement either and the fluid should show no signs of water or corrosion.

The OEM rear tires are a problem and if the Michelin 5's slip it would be ten times worse with the OEM tire.  

If you are interested in finding the problem these steps may help to either say it was the caliper or some other reason.

We do have sintered pads on our bikes and if heated up they will tend to grab better than cold, which is the opposite of most pads. Could the rear brake have been hot already?

I have 30k on my bike and just took a 300 mile ride today and thought about what happened to you and played with the rear brake a bit and it was not a problem at all and consistent in application and stopping.

[goldstar903]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is  debris in your brake fluid that blocked off  the return  port. On the first time it locked up I can understand  that  the brake would stay locked up. The second lockup doesn't make  sense in that  if you only applied light pressure and the return port was blocked the rear brake would only drag and not lockup. I don't own an 1800 but a  hydraulic mechanic for a lot of years.My $.02

 Hope you heal up soon.


Dusty

I had a plugged port on my front brake reservoir. I had this happen with a bike years ago. Imagine the front brakes locking? Fun! I used an old guitar string to clean the gunk out and promptly changed my brake fluid!

[Speedracer28]

Didnt respond sooner because I was thinking about what you said and I think it would be a good idea to check these points.

ABS would not have been a help in this case possibly if it was indeed the rear caliper that locked up. Since the ABS would still have a locked caliper and not be able to regulate the braking.

For me, personally, I would, after the first time checked the brakes especially since personally I know about the caliper problem. I may have even replaced my caliper if there was any question of working properly. If the dealer did not want to do something for me under warranty I wouldn't care, I would do it anyway.

I would also inspect the rear caliper now and see if I can get it to hang up. I would remove the caliper from the bike and look at the pads, the rotors and the caliper itself. I would before taking it apart see if the pistons or pads have a hesitation in being pushed back in. ON disassembly I would look at the inside bores of the pistons to determine if there was any steps, if it was perfectly smooth and if there were no marks on the bore. I would also inspect the brake slides before I pulled the caliper off to make sure they were not holding or binding. Check the brake pads to see if they look melted or scorched at all and inspect the rotor for heat marks or unusual wear.

The other thing would be inspect the master cylinder and make sure it goes all the way out or piston out to make sure that didn't hang up as well as checking the rear brake pedal to make sure there is no binding or holding when moved. Inspect the lines to make sure they are not kinked at all and check the hoses to make sure there is no restriction in them.

If the caliper was hanging up there should be some polished or ever so slightly indented area on the inside of the caliper bores. The pistons when cleaned should not bind in the bores either and have no wiggle room in the bores. They should fit snugly and be able to smoothly be able to move them in and out without binding.

The last thing is the pads in the holder should not have significant up and down movement either and the fluid should show no signs of water or corrosion.

The OEM rear tires are a problem and if the Michelin 5's slip it would be ten times worse with the OEM tire. 

If you are interested in finding the problem these steps may help to either say it was the caliper or some other reason.

We do have sintered pads on our bikes and if heated up they will tend to grab better than cold, which is the opposite of most pads. Could the rear brake have been hot already?

I have 30k on my bike and just took a 300 mile ride today and thought about what happened to you and played with the rear brake a bit and it was not a problem at all and consistent in application and stopping.

Didnt respond sooner because I was thinking about what you said and I think it would be a good idea to check these points.

ABS would not have been a help in this case possibly if it was indeed the rear caliper that locked up. Since the ABS would still have a locked caliper and not be able to regulate the braking.

For me, personally, I would, after the first time checked the brakes especially since personally I know about the caliper problem. I may have even replaced my caliper if there was any question of working properly. If the dealer did not want to do something for me under warranty I wouldn't care, I would do it anyway.

I would also inspect the rear caliper now and see if I can get it to hang up. I would remove the caliper from the bike and look at the pads, the rotors and the caliper itself. I would before taking it apart see if the pistons or pads have a hesitation in being pushed back in. ON disassembly I would look at the inside bores of the pistons to determine if there was any steps, if it was perfectly smooth and if there were no marks on the bore. I would also inspect the brake slides before I pulled the caliper off to make sure they were not holding or binding. Check the brake pads to see if they look melted or scorched at all and inspect the rotor for heat marks or unusual wear.

The other thing would be inspect the master cylinder and make sure it goes all the way out or piston out to make sure that didn't hang up as well as checking the rear brake pedal to make sure there is no binding or holding when moved. Inspect the lines to make sure they are not kinked at all and check the hoses to make sure there is no restriction in them.

If the caliper was hanging up there should be some polished or ever so slightly indented area on the inside of the caliper bores. The pistons when cleaned should not bind in the bores either and have no wiggle room in the bores. They should fit snugly and be able to smoothly be able to move them in and out without binding.

The last thing is the pads in the holder should not have significant up and down movement either and the fluid should show no signs of water or corrosion.

The OEM rear tires are a problem and if the Michelin 5's slip it would be ten times worse with the OEM tire.  

If you are interested in finding the problem these steps may help to either say it was the caliper or some other reason.

We do have sintered pads on our bikes and if heated up they will tend to grab better than cold, which is the opposite of most pads. Could the rear brake have been hot already?

I have 30k on my bike and just took a 300 mile ride today and thought about what happened to you and played with the rear brake a bit and it was not a problem at all and consistent in application and stopping.

These are all great suggestions and ideas where to look Robert. I certainly appreciate the time you took to write each suggestion. Unfortunately, my insurance company totaled the bike and will be picking it up tomorrow to take to a salvage yard.

[pago cruiser]

"...my insurance company totaled the bike and will be picking it up tomorrow to take to a salvage yard."

Glad you are ok. Really sorry about the loss of the bike.  Where are you at? Might be someone on this site is interested before selling it to the breakers for a song. 

[dans2014]

Get a bike with ABS before you crash again. Nothing compares. You can do tires, stainless brake lines, Race brake pads, whatever and you will still most likely lock up in an emergency stop. This technology works and I will never own one without again if buying a model equipped with it.

[Robert]

These are all great suggestions and ideas where to look Robert. I certainly appreciate the time you took to write each suggestion. Unfortunately, my insurance company totaled the bike and will be picking it up tomorrow to take to a salvage yard.

So you going to get something else to replace, or maybe another Valk, or just lay low for awhile?

[PAVALKER]

Braking in a turn, especially a wet one, has a greater chance of sliding out.  Tires have good friction properties; for acceleration, braking and cornering..... but usually only do one or the other very well at one time.  AGRESSIVE braking can increase the odds of course, especially on a bike tire.   On my rear dark side it seems to have much better grip than the OEM tires and can stand the bike more upright in a hard braking/skid situation.  I do have the brake pedal adjusted one tooth up and it seems to give me better/quicker response and control on rear braking. Those Dunlops are pretty loose tires IMO.

[Speedracer28]

These are all great suggestions and ideas where to look Robert. I certainly appreciate the time you took to write each suggestion. Unfortunately, my insurance company totaled the bike and will be picking it up tomorrow to take to a salvage yard.

So you going to get something else to replace, or maybe another Valk, or just lay low for awhile?

I will be picking up my new 2018 Goldwing next week. Thought about finding/buying a new leftover ABS Valkyrie,  but after I rode the new Wing I quickly changed my mind.

[Robert]

These are all great suggestions and ideas where to look Robert. I certainly appreciate the time you took to write each suggestion. Unfortunately, my insurance company totaled the bike and will be picking it up tomorrow to take to a salvage yard.

So you going to get something else to replace, or maybe another Valk, or just lay low for awhile?

I will be picking up my new 2018 Goldwing next week. Thought about finding/buying a new leftover ABS Valkyrie,  but after I rode the new Wing I quickly changed my mind.

Congrats take some pics and post when you get it.

[Wayne Basso]

I looked at the new Goldwing.  It is impressive, but when it comes right down to it, I probably paid $20,000 (Canadian prices) all in for my Valk, with all the extras, Corbin bags, Aerowing pegs, LED daytime lights, windshield, back rest etc.  The new Goldwing here is $32,000, plus options.  Hard for me to justify paying another $12 grand plus for a new machine.

[Jack B]

I just bought a 2015 Valk now with a 1000 miles on it.
And the rear brake locked up twice on me once when a car was wide in a corner and was coming at me and yesterday I was going a little too fast so I needed to slow down but not a panic stop.
So I will be practicing some fast braking.
It's a different bike than my F6B.

[OdentonValkyrie]

I must say that this thread is making me feel better.  Last November, I was out on a ride when it started to rain.  It had not rained for a while, so the road was extremely slippery.  I was approaching a traffic circle and had to scrub off a little speed.  When I slightly applied the rear brake, it locked (non-abs model).  I quickly let off and was able to recover.  However, I still needed to scrub some speed.....same thing - locked up again.  Before I knew it, I hit the curb on the outside of the circle.  I went off the bike and fortunately landed on grass and rolled....Knocked the wind out of me and I was a little sore for a week, but that was it....
 
My bike wasn't so lucky.  Original estimate was about $7,200.  (Progressive ins - they were very good).  After the shop got it back together, and took it for a test ride, they decided the forks were slightly bent, so they had to be replaced.  So it went well over 8K - which I think would have totaled it.  Shop did a great job - looks and rides great.
 
So, I guess there is something to this xtra sensitive rear brake.....

[Jambriwal]

I have not had a brake issue with my 2014 Valk as of yet. Also do not recall having to suddenly stop either. I should go to a parking lot and practice some hard stops and the same with aggressive starts. The aggressive start practice saved me one morning 2:00 am going to work when i heard the car behind me lock up the brakes. Ran that read light and never looked back.

[KUGO]

I have not had a brake issue with my 2014 Valk as of yet. Also do not recall having to suddenly stop either. I should go to a parking lot and practice some hard stops and the same with aggressive starts. The aggressive start practice saved me one morning 2:00 am going to work when i heard the car behind me lock up the brakes. Ran that read light and never looked back.

I don't know how to type this without it maybe sounding snarky or holier-than, so I want to say in advance, that that is not what I'm trying to do.  When I first bought my Valk, I did exactly what you and a few others have suggested.  "Practice, practice, practice!"  I would invent various scenarios where I would have to do an emergency brake or quick scoot to avoid.  How much room do I really have?  Only one way to tell - see Carnegie Hall advice above.  I won't call myself an expert rider even though I've put the miles in over the 50++ yrs. of riding I've survived w/o major incident.  (Thank you, Lord.)  I know I'm not an expert.  That's one of the things that makes me more careful.  Every single ride.

I recognized that this was a different ride than any of my previous bikes, from scooters to Harleys and everything between.  But that was pretty much true with most of my "trade-ups": I was ready for something else and knew what I was looking for.  When I'd find it, just like with the Valk, I would realize that this new bike, whatever it was, was going to accelerate/handle/brake etc. differently than my previous bike.  Therefore, my previous skills and reactions to input just might not save me.  Even professional golfers practice most days.  What, they weren't good enough?   

[Valkyrie0002]

PAVALKER made a great point about traction and becoming familiar with your bike is another good one. 

MSF courses use a traction PIE to try to explain available traction and how much is used going in a straight line Vs. Turns Vs. Braking.  Turns use a lot more traction than going straight therefore there is less available traction for braking while turning. 

ABS works best in a straight line, even in autos.  It does not detect loss of traction laterally, it just detects wheel speed or lack of.  When you are leaned over- side force on the tires- the ABS still sees the wheels rolling even though they are sliding out from under you.  If the wheels are rolling the ABS will not activate and even if it does it may not be enough to maintain traction in the curve.