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MarkT Exhaust
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Author Topic: Exhaust Nut Update  (Read 1469 times)
Forge
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Posts: 227

San Antonio, TX


« on: August 06, 2018, 06:45:41 AM »

Referencing this previous thread where I decided to use stainless lock washers to try to keep the exhaust nuts from backing off:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,102071.0.html

After putting a few hundred miles on my Valk, none of the nuts have loosened up at all. I used new exhaust gaskets and used stainless lock washers under the nuts. It would seem that the stainless lock washers were a success. I have no idea how they affect the torque specs when tightening the nuts, but none of the nuts have moved. I’m a happy camper.
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flash2002
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Montreal, Que


« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 02:05:58 PM »

I knew they would hold, been doing this a long time and they never came loose.   cooldude
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JimBob
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Posts: 61

Diamondhead, MS airport (66Y)

Mississippi Gulf Coast- Hancock county


« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2018, 12:54:57 AM »

Hello all.
I'm a long time wrench-turner, long time car/motorcycle/airplane (Cessna150/172) guy, but new to the Valkyrie.
Noodling on the forum it appears that this loosening of the exhaust nuts is a fairly common thing.

Has anyone looked into drilling the nuts and using safety wire, as is common in airplanes?
I am pretty sure I have seen ads for a jig that is used to drill a small hole 'across' a point on the nut, so a couple of holes in each nut, then safety-wire the pair of nuts on each exhaust flange to each other.

Did a quick search..... I am thinking of something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MOTO4U-Safety-Lockwire-Drill-Metric/dp/B074J83Q2V

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Presently running:
'97 Valkyrie Tourer, '99 Valkyrie Interstate
'08 Buell 1125R, '06 Buell XB12X Ulysses, '06 Buell XB12S Lightning
'95 Suzuki GN125, '85 Suzuki GN250, '80 Suzuki TS125, '80 Suzuki TS250
Projects: '04 Buell Firebolt, '00 & '04 Buell Blasts, '74 Suz TM400, '78 Suz TS185
Chrisj CMA
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Posts: 14786


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2018, 04:06:57 AM »

Hello all.
I'm a long time wrench-turner, long time car/motorcycle/airplane (Cessna150/172) guy, but new to the Valkyrie.
Noodling on the forum it appears that this loosening of the exhaust nuts is a fairly common thing.

Has anyone looked into drilling the nuts and using safety wire, as is common in airplanes?
I am pretty sure I have seen ads for a jig that is used to drill a small hole 'across' a point on the nut, so a couple of holes in each nut, then safety-wire the pair of nuts on each exhaust flange to each other.

Did a quick search..... I am thinking of something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MOTO4U-Safety-Lockwire-Drill-Metric/dp/B074J83Q2V


Safety wire would be more of a pain. The problem isint that the nuts get loose on their own.  It's during the wear in of new gaskets, the nuts become loose as the gaskets compress, the safety wire might prevent loss of a nut if one forgets to check frequently after putting in new gaskets, but rewiring would be required daily until the gaskets fully compress, then safety wiring would not be necessary.
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Skinhead
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J. A. B. O. A.

Troy, MI


« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2018, 04:11:42 AM »

Personally, I don't see the need for all that.  127,000 on one bike, 70,000 on the other, never a lost nut.
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Troy, MI
Hook#3287
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Posts: 6458


Brimfield, Ma


« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 04:12:08 AM »

Hello all.
I'm a long time wrench-turner, long time car/motorcycle/airplane (Cessna150/172) guy, but new to the Valkyrie.
Noodling on the forum it appears that this loosening of the exhaust nuts is a fairly common thing.

Has anyone looked into drilling the nuts and using safety wire, as is common in airplanes?
I am pretty sure I have seen ads for a jig that is used to drill a small hole 'across' a point on the nut, so a couple of holes in each nut, then safety-wire the pair of nuts on each exhaust flange to each other.

Did a quick search..... I am thinking of something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MOTO4U-Safety-Lockwire-Drill-Metric/dp/B074J83Q2V


No reason you couldn't, but the issue is mostly after a removal of the exhaust system and replacement of the crush washers.

You'd have to wait till you did final adjustments/tightening and then they stay, for the most part, in place anyways.

I've lost a few over the two decades I've been wrenching Valks, but always after a crush washer replacement and my not tightening them soon enough or hard enough.

I'd rather lose and nut or two then snap the stud.  Shocked
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h13man
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To everything there is an exception.

Indiana NW Central Flatlands


« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2018, 05:19:33 AM »



[/quote] No reason you couldn't, but the issue is mostly after a removal of the exhaust system and replacement of the crush washers.

You'd have to wait till you did final adjustments/tightening and then they stay, for the most part, in place anyways.

I've lost a few over the two decades I've been wrenching Valks, but always after a crush washer replacement and my not tightening them soon enough or hard enough.

I'd rather lose and nut or two then snap the stud.  Shocked
[/quote]

The lock washer setup was used exclusively in the ole' days on all Honda's and I've never had loss or failure. Now that being said most exhaust ports are not loaded with downward pressure like the Valk's and GW's thus the addition of the SS washer's are a plus regardless what the OEM setup is. BTW never lost a stud in 49 yrs. and 20 bikes but.....
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 07:00:17 AM by h13man » Logged
Hook#3287
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Brimfield, Ma


« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 05:24:04 AM »

  Lock washers, that's a good alternative.  I haven't had the need to pull an exhaust in a while, but when I do, I'm going with the SS Washers.
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Paladin528
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Greater Toronto Area Ontario Canada


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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2018, 06:15:40 AM »

when you replace the crush gaskets you tighten to the 7lb spec.  Ride the bike for a bit and the re-torque.  The crush gaskets "seat" after installation causing the nuts to become loose.

General maintenance practice should be to check these periodically anyway along with many other nuts and bolts that may come loose due to vibration
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Chrisj CMA
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Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2018, 06:56:31 AM »

Quote
many other nuts and bolts that may come loose due to vibration

Really?  I have had a Valkyrie for over 16 years.  Now I have two. I do quite a bit of periodic and preventative maintenance and cleaning.  And did I say I do some cleaning.  However,  except for exhaust nuts right after installing new crush gaskets I have never had a bolt come loose on anything else.  What are these many others you speak of?

oops, I take that back  this last Inzane I did have one bolt on my highway peg get a tad loose, not falling off loose just a tweek was needed to keep the peg from rotating.  Thats in 16+ years thats the only bolt I can remember.
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knockdolian
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2018, 12:36:10 PM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
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Chrisj CMA
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Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2018, 03:28:01 PM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
No
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Cracker Jack
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 05:28:05 PM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
No

Why not?  coolsmiley If the stud is long enough, (it may not be) include a ss lock washer between the two nuts. That would keep the nut from backing off. It certainly wouldn't keep the gasket from loosening up if it crushed further. cooldude
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Chrisj CMA
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Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 05:08:45 AM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
No

Why not?  coolsmiley If the stud is long enough, (it may not be) include a ss lock washer between the two nuts. That would keep the nut from loose backing off. It certainly wouldn't keep the gasket from loosening up if it crushed further. cooldude

You answered your own question. The issue is that the gasket cannot be compressed all at once without breaking studs. Bolts get loose only until the gasket is compressed. Then there’s not a problem.
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Paladin528
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Greater Toronto Area Ontario Canada


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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 07:30:40 AM »

I agree the Valkyrie is not susceptible to the same vibration as a V-Twin.  My old Shadow needed some tightening every now and again.
I do go over my bike once or twice a year to ensure everything is snugged up correctly just for piece of mind.
Every once in a while you catch something worn or loose.  Kickstand bolt is a good one to catch early before it breaks on the road.
 
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knockdolian
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2018, 11:53:09 AM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
No

Why not?  coolsmiley If the stud is long enough, (it may not be) include a ss lock washer between the two nuts. That would keep the nut from loose backing off. It certainly wouldn't keep the gasket from loosening up if it crushed further. cooldude
Not wishing to start an argument but, two nuts would lock on to each other. Shallow lock nuts are available. If the gasket got lose you would get a blow by but the nuts would still be there to nip up. Just saying
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Chrisj CMA
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Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2018, 12:29:59 PM »

Wouldn’t two nuts do the job. Lock one against the other ?
No

Why not?  coolsmiley If the stud is long enough, (it may not be) include a ss lock washer between the two nuts. That would keep the nut from loose backing off. It certainly wouldn't keep the gasket from loosening up if it crushed further. cooldude
Not wishing to start an argument but, two nuts would lock on to each other. Shallow lock nuts are available. If the gasket got lose you would get a blow by but the nuts would still be there to nip up. Just saying




Depends on the problem. If the problem is loosness due to gaskets compressing double nuts won't solve that.  If the problem is losing nuts (that's just neglect) you're right they will not fall off no matter how long you go without checking them.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 05:29:00 PM by Chrisj CMA » Logged
Valkyrie0002
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Fredericksburg, Va


« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2018, 01:34:01 PM »

I checked my exh. nuts in July and they all needed tightening.   I had never thought to check them until I read the post on this site.
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Been riding since about 1985.  1st bike was a CB900F then 88 CBR1000 , 1990 VFR750F and 94 CBR1000F.  I bought my 2000 Std. Valkyrie new in 01.  Was an MSF Rider Coach for 12 years.  New owner of a 2014 Valk, Red, Non ABS.
JimBob
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Diamondhead, MS airport (66Y)

Mississippi Gulf Coast- Hancock county


« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 11:43:47 PM »

Thanks Chris, Hook,  and Paladin

I did not realize it was the exhaust gaskets compressing (like I said, I'm new to the Valks!)
I knew that the exhaust nuts were to only 7 fl-lbs ('barely snug' on the 'feel' scale), but that the gaskets 'seat in' a bit, and the nuts loosen after riding a bit makes perfect sense.

Skinhead.... "never a lost nut."

I'm glad to hear you're still 'fully intact'. cooldude
(I know.... bad joke.... I couldn't help it.)

Reminded of a limerick one of the old guys where I used to work (RIP Jim Ficken!) once told:
"There was a young man in Boston
Who rode around town in an Austin.
There was room for his ass and a gallon of gas,
but his balls hung out and he lost 'em."


Seriously.....
Any of you guys on the Carolina coast..... STAY SAFE!
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Presently running:
'97 Valkyrie Tourer, '99 Valkyrie Interstate
'08 Buell 1125R, '06 Buell XB12X Ulysses, '06 Buell XB12S Lightning
'95 Suzuki GN125, '85 Suzuki GN250, '80 Suzuki TS125, '80 Suzuki TS250
Projects: '04 Buell Firebolt, '00 & '04 Buell Blasts, '74 Suz TM400, '78 Suz TS185
Paladin528
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Greater Toronto Area Ontario Canada


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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2018, 04:54:52 AM »

The gaskets are designed to crush  that way you always get a perfect seal.  This is also why they are single time use only.
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