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Author Topic: Get out your wallets, global warming is going to cost you.  (Read 20549 times)
Varmintmist
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Western Pa


« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2009, 01:11:01 PM »

Now now, you know that your hackers are not quality hackers like the other side has, they cant be right.
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However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
Churchill
Hoser
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child of the sixties VRCC 17899

Auburn, Kansas


« Reply #121 on: November 21, 2009, 11:17:48 AM »

Will somebody please tell me and Fudgie what is wrong with weekly reader?  My grandkids get it at school, and I wanna know!   laugh  Evil Hoser
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JerryG59
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« Reply #122 on: November 21, 2009, 12:44:19 PM »

Should be interesting to see how this hacker thing plays out in the next couple weeks. If the mainstream media picks it up then i'm sure it will be used somehow to discredit AGW sceptics just in time for Copenhagen. There's alot of people still on the fence about this issue. The sceptics that know it's a hoax won't be surprised if this info turns out to be real. The people that are convinced AGW is real will most likely never believe this info is true. But the many people on the fence just need a strong gust of wind to blow one way or the other to decide what they believe is true. Concidering the timing of this i see a set up but who knows. We live in a world completely controlled through propaganda. I need alot of proof to believe anything is real or true. I would love to see this scam have the light of truth shined upon it but i'm not gonna hold my breath. The AGW sceptics need to keep trying to inform as many people on the fence as we can. I hope we don't smell victory prematurely. This thing is a long way from over.
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stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2009, 12:12:13 AM »

Here's an AP article on the hacked emails. Don't know the validity of the supposed hack but who knows the whole truth anyway? If we do have global warming it may be leading to some fire and brimstone worldwide.


Hacked E-Mails Heat Up Climate DisputeScientist's E-Mail Cites 'Trick' to 'Hide the Decline' on Climate Change
DAVID STRINGER, AP
posted: 1 HOUR 30 MINUTES AGOcomments: 1192filed under: Science News, World NewsWith HP wireless printers, you could have printed this from any room in the house. Live wirelessly. Print wirelessly.
PRINT|E-MAILMOREText SizeAAALONDON (Nov. 21) -- Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.
The University of East Anglia, in eastern England, said in a statement Saturday that the hackers had entered the server and stolen data at its Climatic Research Unit, a leading global research center on climate change. The university said police are investigating the theft of the information, but could not confirm if all the materials posted online are genuine.
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More than a decade of correspondence between leading British and U.S. scientists is included in about 1,000 e-mails and 3,000 documents posted on Web sites following the security breach last week.
Some climate change skeptics and bloggers claim the information shows scientists have overstated the case for global warming, and allege the documents contain proof that some researchers conspired to manipulate data.
The furor over the leaked data comes weeks before the U.N. climate conference in Copenhagen, when 192 nations will seek to reach a binding treaty to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases worldwide. Many officials — including U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon — regard the prospects of a pact being sealed at the meeting as bleak.
In one leaked e-mail, the research center's director, Phil Jones, writes to colleagues about graphs showing climate statistics over the last millennium. He alludes to a technique used by a fellow scientist to "hide the decline" in recent global temperatures. Some evidence appears to show a halt in a rise of global temperatures from about 1960, but is contradicted by other evidence which appears to show a rise in temperatures is continuing.
Jones wrote that, in compiling new data, he had "just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline," according to a leaked e-mail, which the author confirmed was genuine.
One of the colleague referred to by Jones — Michael Mann, a professor of meteorology at Pennsylvania State University — did not immediately respond to requests for comment via telephone and e-mail.
The use of the word "trick" by Jones has been seized on by skeptics — who say his e-mail offers proof of collusion between scientists to distort evidence to support their assertion that human activity is influencing climate change.
"Words fail me," Stephen McIntyre — a blogger whose climateaudit.org Web site challenges popular thinking on climate change — wrote on the site following the leak of the messages.
However, Jones denied manipulating evidence and insisted his comment had been taken out of context. "The word 'trick' was used here colloquially, as in a clever thing to do. It is ludicrous to suggest that it refers to anything untoward," he said in a statement Saturday.
Jones did not indicate who "Keith" was in his e-mail.
Two other American scientists named in leaked e-mails — Gavin Schmidt of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, and Kevin Trenberth, of the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research, in Colorado — did not immediately return requests for comment.
The University of East Anglica said that information published on the Internet had been selected deliberately to undermine "the strong consensus that human activity is affecting the world's climate in ways that are potentially dangerous."
"The selective publication of some stolen e-mails and other papers taken out of context is mischievous and cannot be considered a genuine attempt to engage with this issue in a responsible way," the university said in a statement.
Associated Press Writer Meera Selva in London contributed to this report.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
fstsix
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« Reply #124 on: November 25, 2009, 12:05:01 PM »

Hide The Decline - Climategatepowered by Aeva
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Jeff K
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« Reply #125 on: November 25, 2009, 12:21:30 PM »

Chicken Little "The Globe Is Warming!"powered by Aeva
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fstsix
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« Reply #126 on: November 25, 2009, 02:22:08 PM »

Where is that Nixon and those tapes! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/25/the_skeptics_are_vindicated_99296.html
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Jeff K
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« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2009, 05:52:53 AM »

"Real Scientists" Destroy data?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece#comment-have-your-say
 
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BonS
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Blue Springs, MO


WWW
« Reply #128 on: November 30, 2009, 06:02:02 AM »


 tickedoff In these times when every schmo can have terrabytes of storage in their PC these scientists threw away the data because they were moving??? tickedoff
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Hollywood
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Ft .Worth TX, US


« Reply #129 on: November 30, 2009, 06:04:36 AM »

I remember when we were told hairspray was causing a hole in the ozone layer, back in the 80's. I applaud every effort to help "green" up the world, but read "Revelations"then decide for yourself.
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Peace, Hollywood
stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #130 on: November 30, 2009, 07:44:33 PM »

Get your checkbooks out. Ten more days till Copenhagen. Then your really gonna pay to drive those gas guzzeling, greenhouse gas emitting, 6 cylinder Valkyries. Aha, now it's Valk related.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
John Schmidt
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a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2009, 08:44:45 PM »

Hi Folks, was doing some research on the Vikings and discovered that Global Warming made it possible for these adventurers to navigate to Iceland, Greenland, Vinland etc. in 350-750. This article has later dates but it said the same thing...thought you might find it of interest. Granted, we humans most likely have an effect on the climate, but from what I can gather it appears the warming is a natural cycle. Just posting information, draw your own conclusions pro or con, I have mine....you have yours. Beyond that.....eh!

Global Warming Delusions
By DANIEL B. BOTKIN
October 17, 2007; Page A19
Global warming doesn't matter except to the extent that it will affect life -- ours and that of all living things on Earth. And contrary to the latest news, the evidence that global warming will have serious effects on life is thin. Most evidence suggests the contrary.

Case in point: This year's United Nations report on climate change and other documents say that 20%-30% of plant and animal species will be threatened with extinction in this century due to global warming -- a truly terrifying thought. Yet, during the past 2.5 million years, a period that scientists now know experienced climatic changes as rapid and as warm as modern climatological models suggest will happen to us, almost none of the millions of species on Earth went extinct. The exceptions were about 20 species of large mammals (the famous megafauna of the last ice age -- saber-tooth tigers, hairy mammoths and the like), which went extinct about 10,000 to 5,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age, and many dominant trees and shrubs of northwestern Europe. But elsewhere, including North America, few plant species went extinct, and few mammals.

We're also warned that tropical diseases are going to spread, and that we can expect malaria and encephalitis epidemics. But scientific papers by Prof. Sarah Randolph of Oxford University show that temperature changes do not correlate well with changes in the distribution or frequency of these diseases; warming has not broadened their distribution and is highly unlikely to do so in the future, global warming or not.

The key point here is that living things respond to many factors in addition to temperature and rainfall. In most cases, however, climate-modeling-based forecasts look primarily at temperature alone, or temperature and precipitation only. You might ask, "Isn't this enough to forecast changes in the distribution of species?" Ask a mockingbird. The New York Times recently published an answer to a query about why mockingbirds were becoming common in Manhattan. The expert answer was: food -- an exotic plant species that mockingbirds like to eat had spread to New York City. It was this, not temperature or rainfall, the expert said, that caused the change in mockingbird geography.

You might think I must be one of those know-nothing naysayers who believes global warming is a liberal plot. On the contrary, I am a biologist and ecologist who has worked on global warming, and been concerned about its effects, since 1968. I've developed the computer model of forest growth that has been used widely to forecast possible effects of global warming on life -- I've used the model for that purpose myself, and to forecast likely effects on specific endangered species.

I'm not a naysayer. I'm a scientist who believes in the scientific method and in what facts tell us. I have worked for 40 years to try to improve our environment and improve human life as well. I believe we can do this only from a basis in reality, and that is not what I see happening now. Instead, like fashions that took hold in the past and are eloquently analyzed in the classic 19th century book "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds," the popular imagination today appears to have been captured by beliefs that have little scientific basis. Some colleagues who share some of my doubts argue that the only way to get our society to change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe, and that therefore it is all right and even necessary for scientists to exaggerate. They tell me that my belief in open and honest assessment is naïve. "Wolves deceive their prey, don't they?" one said to me recently. Therefore, biologically, he said, we are justified in exaggerating to get society to change.

The climate modelers who developed the computer programs that are being used to forecast climate change used to readily admit that the models were crude and not very realistic, but were the best that could be done with available computers and programming methods. They said our options were to either believe those crude models or believe the opinions of experienced, data-focused scientists. Having done a great deal of computer modeling myself, I appreciated their acknowledgment of the limits of their methods. But I hear no such statements today. Oddly, the forecasts of computer models have become our new reality, while facts such as the few extinctions of the past 2.5 million years are pushed aside, as if they were not our reality.
A recent article in the well-respected journal American Scientist explained why the glacier on Mt. Kilimanjaro could not be melting from global warming. Simply from an intellectual point of view it was fascinating -- especially the author's Sherlock Holmes approach to figuring out what was causing the glacier to melt. That it couldn't be global warming directly (i.e., the result of air around the glacier warming) was made clear by the fact that the air temperature at the altitude of the glacier is below freezing. This means that only direct radiant heat from sunlight could be warming and melting the glacier. The author also studied the shape of the glacier and deduced that its melting pattern was consistent with radiant heat but not air temperature. Although acknowledged by many scientists, the paper is scorned by the true believers in global warming.

We are told that the melting of the arctic ice will be a disaster. But during the famous medieval warming period -- A.D. 750 to 1230 or so -- the Vikings found the warmer northern climate to their advantage. Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie addressed this in his book "Times of Feast, Times of Famine: A History of Climate Since the Year 1000," perhaps the greatest book about climate change before the onset of modern concerns with global warming. He wrote that Erik the Red "took advantage of a sea relatively free of ice to sail due west from Iceland to reach Greenland. . . . Two and a half centuries later, at the height of the climatic and demographic fortunes of the northern settlers, a bishopric of Greenland was founded at Gardar in 1126."

Ladurie pointed out that "it is reasonable to think of the Vikings as unconsciously taking advantage of this [referring to the warming of the Middle Ages] to colonize the most northern and inclement of their conquests, Iceland and Greenland." Good thing that Erik the Red didn't have Al Gore or his climatologists as his advisers.

Should we therefore dismiss global warming? Of course not. But we should make a realistic assessment, as rationally as possible, about its cultural, economic and environmental effects. As Erik the Red might have told you, not everything due to a climatic warming is bad, nor is everything that is bad due to a climatic warming.

We should approach the problem the way we decide whether to buy insurance and take precautions against other catastrophes -- wildfires, hurricanes, earthquakes. And as I have written elsewhere, many of the actions we would take to reduce greenhouse-gas production and mitigate global-warming effects are beneficial anyway, most particularly a movement away from fossil fuels to alternative solar and wind energy.

My concern is that we may be moving away from an irrational lack of concern about climate change to an equally irrational panic about it.

Many of my colleagues ask, "What's the problem? Hasn't it been a good thing to raise public concern?" The problem is that in this panic we are going to spend our money unwisely, we will take actions that are counterproductive, and we will fail to do many of those things that will benefit the environment and ourselves.

For example, right now the clearest threat to many species is habitat destruction. Take the orangutans, for instance, one of those charismatic species that people are often fascinated by and concerned about. They are endangered because of deforestation. In our fear of global warming, it would be sad if we fail to find funds to purchase those forests before they are destroyed, and thus let this species go extinct.

At the heart of the matter is how much faith we decide to put in science -- even how much faith scientists put in science. Our times have benefited from clear-thinking, science-based rationality. I hope this prevails as we try to deal with our changing climate.

Mr. Botkin, president of the Center for the Study of the Environment and professor emeritus in the Department of Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, is the author of "Discordant Harmonies: A New Ecology for the Twenty-First Century" (Replica Books, 2001).
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stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #132 on: December 02, 2009, 06:58:45 AM »

John, thanks for that great article. it is one of several that I've read on the subject that makes most sense, something that is lacking in the debate, common sense. One article I read was about the summer that wasn't in 1813. A volcano erruption left the northen hemisphere cold for most of the summer. I also read where the earth can veer off it's normal 46 degree swing and actuall tilt farther north depending on sun spots (eplosions on the sun's surface) that effect's the gravitational pull on the earth. And if I remeber correctly, I saw an article that said two times over the earth's history, the axis' changed where the north pole was south and visa-versus. It just bothers me that the American tax payer will be blamed for everything wrong with the environment and made to pay for it which equals more jobs for some UN beaurocrat that doesn't have a life.
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..
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Maggie Valley, NC


« Reply #133 on: January 18, 2010, 05:07:19 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1243963/UN-science-report-stated-Himalayan-glaciers-melt-25-years-guess.html
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stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #134 on: January 18, 2010, 06:22:24 AM »

Thanks Paul. I appreciate real discussion and information that has substance to it. I fear government control a lot more than "global warming/cooling" as it is an infringement on my liberties. An honest debate on the actual facts are what is needed, not fear and intimidation. All the hype that has been used to brainwash the children in America's public schools and the public in general will take years to overcome if ever. They will believe the likes of Al Gore and the UN and label anyone that doesn't go along with their agenda as deniers and try to undermine the truth. Thanks again for posting. I've also seen several other articles and videos similar to this. Glad you took time to read and post.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
..
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Maggie Valley, NC


« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2010, 12:31:43 PM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
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Jeff K
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« Reply #136 on: February 14, 2010, 07:30:27 PM »



I saw that today. I'm sure the media in the USA will pick up this story soon.  2funny
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stormrider
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Kinsey, AL


« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2010, 07:15:16 AM »

There seems to be one person behind the Global Warming conspiracy, Maurice Strong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Strong

In his own words.

http://www.mauricestrong.net/

Some research on Maurice Strong

http://soldierforliberty.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/maurice-strong-agenda-21-and-more-from-lord-moncton/

And there's lots more for the deniers, that is, those who deny there is a conspiracy.
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
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