Valve Adjustment assistance needed

[Curley Wolf]

Trying to adjust valves on my '99 Valk Interstate w/94,000 miles.  Have done this several times in years past but, have tried following instructions in
Shop Manual which gives clearances for intake and exhaust.  However, after adjusting, valves are extemely noisey.  Manual directs to adjust #1 and gives clearances, then turn crank to next number on dial to adjust next valve(s)???? After trying a couple of times w/ same results, am thinking that intake and exhaust should not be adjusted while piston in same position but Shop Manual gives no instructions about any engine rotation movement which would seem to close intake valve and open exhaust valve.  Can someone, please clarify this for this "old timer" with problems???

[WintrSol]

If the cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke, the valve tappets should be at maximum clearance. Perhaps you set some at the other TDC, when the exhaust valve is nearly closed and the intake valve is starting to open?

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes you definitely do intake and exhaust with the piston in the same TDC position. Were the tapets loose as in you could grab them and feel a wiggle side to side before you began the adjustment? If not you could have done like what was suggested above. You probably performed the adjustment on the wrong TDC

[Chrisj CMA]

Here's another clue. If you're doing it right most of the valve clearances should NOT require adjustment. The ones that do should need just a tweek, barely a measurable amount of a turn. 

If you think you need a larger correction than a tiny tweek, STOP you are probably doing something wrong.

[bassman]

This is what I use to use....pretty close to the shop manual???

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/carlvalve.htm

[LB]

Yes, both valves are adjusted at same time to specs. Order of adjustment is: Cylinder #1 on the T12.2 mark, #4 on T3.4, #5 on T5.6, #2 on T1.2, #3 on T3.4, and #6 on T5.6    always turning crankshaft counter clockwise.

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes, both valves are adjusted at same time to specs. Order of adjustment is: Cylinder #1 on the T12.2 mark, #4 on T3.4, #5 on T5.6, #2 on T1.2, #3 on T3.4, and #6 on T5.6    always turning crankshaft counter clockwise.

Yes, but what is key at the beginning is making sure #1 is on compression stroke so tappets are loose.  If they are tight at tdc you need to turn the crank 360 degrees to the 1/2 mark again and then tappets will be loose.

[mrgeoff]

+1 what Chrisj states...!!!

[F6Dave]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

[Chrisj CMA]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

No, because it's so much easier to just do it the right way.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

I don’t know if you are the only one. But that’s not how I’ve ever done it. Count yourself lucky that you never had a bike with the “shim in bucket” valve adjustment.

[F6Dave]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

I don’t know if you are the only one. But that’s not how I’ve ever done it. Count yourself lucky that you never had a bike with the “shim in bucket” valve adjustment.

I've had 2 of those, a Kawasaki and a Suzuki.  I used the same method.  Both used a simple tool to depress the bucket.  The system works well, but you need extra shims to change the clearance.  Luckily those engines rarely needed any adjustment at all.  In fact, in 33,000 miles my GS1000 never was out of spec, so I never got to use the tool.

[Chrisj CMA]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

I don’t know if you are the only one. But that’s not how I’ve ever done it. Count yourself lucky that you never had a bike with the “shim in bucket” valve adjustment.

I had Yamaha Maxims (650 and then 750) they had the shim in bucket.  If you have the special tool, (I just found that tool in my tool box still) its not that bad, but it requires multiple trips to the dealer to get new shims.  My good fortune was that the dealer near me at the time did free exchanges for shims.

[F6Dave]

My first vehicle was an old VW Beetle which needed frequent valve adjustments.  I followed the manual and set the clearance when the piston was at TDC on the compression stroke.  There was no other option as the VW's OHV engine had the cam in the block.

Since then, all but one vehicle I've owned has had overhead cams.  I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to see the cam lobe, so rather than worry about the position of the crank, I simply adjusted all the valves that had the high point of the lobe pointing away from cam follower.  Then I would tap the starter to move the cams a bit, and adjust some other valves.  After a few iterations of this process I was done.

Doesn't anyone else adjust valves this way?  I've driven/ridden my vehicles for over 1.5 million miles, performed countless valve adjustments without ever worrying about the crank position, and never had a valve problem

No, because it's so much easier to just do it the right way.

I'm not so sure the 'right' way is always the best way.  The Honda manual says the 'right' way to remove the rear wheel is to start by removing the entire exhaust system.  I tried it that way for my first tire change.  What a PITA!  I figured there had to be a better way, and I found one on this site!

Here's another example.  A old friend had a Porsche 911S from the '70s.  He bought it new, and also ordered the 'factory manual' from Porsche.  It was a massive library of several volumes.  The very detailed valve adjustment method called for using a dial indicator instead of feeler gauges.  You would wiggle the rocker while reading the clearance on the indicator.  He tried it that way, but eventually ended up using feeler gauges because it took less time and gave the same result.

So don't knock it if you haven't tried it!  On my Valk, in the time it would take me to remove the cover and position the crank, I am already done checking several of the valves.  That's partly because at any given point during an engine's rotation, more valves are closed than are open or partially open.  So by visually inspecting the cam position, you can check more than 2 valve clearances without turning the engine, making the entire process go faster.

I just did a quick online search and found that this method is often recommended, so apparently I'm not the only one after all.

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm not so sure the 'right' way is always the best way.

Three little socket head bolts and you can manually turn the crank.  Its easier than bumping the starter with the valve covers off.  No thanks on that one.

I didnt say its always easier to do things according to the book.  I just said its easier to adjust the valves using the prescribed method, or a version of the prescribed method.  I dont always go in the order prescribed in the book.

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey Curley Wolf, did you ever figure out what happened?

[F6Dave]

I'm not so sure the 'right' way is always the best way.

Three little socket head bolts and you can manually turn the crank.  Its easier than bumping the starter with the valve covers off.  No thanks on that one.

I didnt say its always easier to do things according to the book.  I just said its easier to adjust the valves using the prescribed method, or a version of the prescribed method.  I dont always go in the order prescribed in the book.

I think you missed my point.  I probably didn't make it very well so I'll try again.

It doesn't matter much how you rotate the engine.  Years ago I got into the habit of bumping the starter because the crank pulley on some vehicles can be hard to reach, and larger motors with high compression can be difficult to turn manually without pulling the plugs.  I'll admit rotating by hand is usually the preferred method.  But tapping the starter works too, and nothing bad happens when you do it with the valve covers off.

The key point is that you can adjust more than 2 valves without repositioning the engine, and visually observing cam position can make it easier.  Since the Valk's valves have 140 degrees or less of total duration, all valves are closed well over half of the time, even after adding several degrees on each end to assure a full clearance measurement.  If you look at a valve timing chart for the Valkyrie, you'll see that when any piston is at TDC prior to the power stroke, each adjacent cylinder in the firing order has one valve completely closed with the heel of the cam lobe centered under the follower.  So it's quite easy to adjust 4 valves at a time, and complete the job by moving  the crankshaft only 3 times rather than the usual 6.

I assume service manuals call for adjusting valves at TDC because it's easier to describe, and more foolproof for inexperienced mechanics.  But some will find it useful to streamline the process a bit.  I'm basically lazy and would rather ride than wrench!

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm not so sure the 'right' way is always the best way.

Three little socket head bolts and you can manually turn the crank.  Its easier than bumping the starter with the valve covers off.  No thanks on that one.

I didnt say its always easier to do things according to the book.  I just said its easier to adjust the valves using the prescribed method, or a version of the prescribed method.  I dont always go in the order prescribed in the book.

I think you missed my point.  I probably didn't make it very well so I'll try again.

It doesn't matter much how you rotate the engine.  Years ago I got into the habit of bumping the starter because the crank pulley on some vehicles can be hard to reach, and larger motors with high compression can be difficult to turn manually without pulling the plugs.  I'll admit rotating by hand is usually the preferred method.  But tapping the starter works too, and nothing bad happens when you do it with the valve covers off.

The key point is that you can adjust more than 2 valves without repositioning the engine, and visually observing cam position can make it easier.  Since the Valk's valves have 140 degrees or less of total duration, all valves are closed well over half of the time, even after adding several degrees on each end to assure a full clearance measurement.  If you look at a valve timing chart for the Valkyrie, you'll see that when any piston is at TDC prior to the power stroke, each adjacent cylinder in the firing order has one valve completely closed with the heel of the cam lobe centered under the follower.  So it's quite easy to adjust 4 valves at a time, and complete the job by moving  the crankshaft only 3 times rather than the usual 6.

I assume service manuals call for adjusting valves at TDC because it's easier to describe, and more foolproof for inexperienced mechanics.  But some will find it useful to streamline the process a bit.  I'm basically lazy and would rather ride than wrench!

I got your point. My objection to bumping the starter with the valve covers off is that my bike would likely start and sling oil on the floor in my family room.