HELP! My IS won't start

[Houdini]

I recently pulled a lot of bling off of my IS and some 'lectrical bits. Most of the electrics were connected to a power distributor so it was a simple disconnect from the battery and pull out the wires.   Now it won't start.  The battery is good, it is sitting at 13.6 volts plus I swapped batteries with my other Valk that fires fight up and still nada.  I rebuilt the petcock even though the old one appeared to be working fine. 

I have gas in all of the bowls
I am getting spark to all of the plugs.
The starter spins and spins and she acts like she wants to start, but doesn't.
I've checked the grounds that I know, maybe there are some I am not aware of that need checking.
All fuses are good, I replaced the ignition fuse just for giggles.

Does anyone have any suggestions what else to check, I am at wit's end.

TYIA

[Jess from VA]

While maybe you didn't work on them, what about the clutch, kickstand, or even tip-over switches?

With everything else checking out, it sounds like some kind of interrupter deal, like these switches.

[Chrisj CMA]

While maybe you didn't work on them, what about the clutch, kickstand, or even tip-over switches?

With everything else checking out, it sounds like some kind of interrupter deal, like these switches.

It would not turn over if those things were the problem.

[Chrisj CMA]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

[Houdini]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

[Chrisj CMA]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

Double check the ground connection and battery cables. I would still jump to the car battery just to rule out the battery altogether.

[Houdini]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

Double check the ground connection and battery cables. I would still jump to the car battery just to rule out the battery altogether.

Jumping it made no difference, it just spins and spins, fuel drained out of the bowl vents while spinning.

[Dusty]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

Double check the ground connection and battery cables. I would still jump to the car battery just to rule out the battery altogether.

Jumping it made no difference, it just spins and spins, fuel drained out of the bowl vents while spinning.

I would test the petcock to rule it out  Disconnect the fuel line -attach a vacuum hose to the vacuum port and suck on the hose. With selector on  on or reserve you should get fuel

Do you have the vacuum line hooked up to the vacuum port or something else.  Trace the line  to the intake runner

Dusty

[Chrisj CMA]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

Double check the ground connection and battery cables. I would still jump to the car battery just to rule out the battery altogether.

Jumping it made no difference, it just spins and spins, fuel drained out of the bowl vents while spinning.

I would test the petcock to rule it out  Disconnect the fuel line -attach a vacuum hose to the vacuum port and suck on the hose. With selector on  on or reserve you should get fuel

Do you have the vacuum line hooked up to the vacuum port or something else.  Trace the line  to the intake runner

Dusty

+1. The only thing I can come up with is bad vacuum line to petcock. Check it out maybe even replace that line just for grins

[Houdini]

Petcock bench tested fine, so I rebuilt it with a cheapo rebuild kit, it tested fine but the bike wouldn't start.  I then rebuilt it with a Honda kit, it bench tested just fine.  Bike still won't start.

I already tested the vacuum line, the one that was on there would not hold vacuum, so I discarded it and put a new line on, the new one holds vacuum and gas will flow if I put a vacuum on it with the petcock open.  I even changed the o-ring on the intake to make sure it had a good seal and then changed to a different intake, just in case.

Still, the bike won't start.   

[gordonv]

You say you have spin, spark and fuel in the bowls. I would apply chock and turn the throttle all the way, trying to flowed the engine. When you smell fuel, you know it's now working.

Give it a minute, to allow the fuel to vaporize and disperse from the exhaust.

Chock off, no throttle, and try again.

You need spark (at the right time), fuel and the engine to turn for timing. If you have those, you run. Miss any one or more, no joy.

It sounds like you need fuel in the cylinder.

[9Ball]

Did you have the relays out?  Did you remove the bank angle sensor and re-install it upside down?  You wouldn’t be the first to do this.

[Jruby38]

See if it will light up on starting fluid.  Give it  good blast under the front of the tank  to reach the intake. If it fires up than you problem is fuel.

[Harryc]

Exactly what 'electrical bits' and wires did you remove? Is it possible one of them was for a hidden Danmarc fuel cutoff solenoid?

[sandy]

Exactly what 'electrical bits' and wires did you remove? Is it possible one of them was for a hidden Danmarc fuel cutoff solenoid?

+1 on this suggestion. Did you or the PO put in a solenoid valve which may have been wired to the reserve fuse panel?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Double check all connections Are tight. It still sounds like a weak battery to me. Try jumping to the car. 

How long has it been since it started properly?

Barely two weeks, but I pulled the battery out of my standard, that starts it with a tap, and put it in the IS with the same results, it just spins and spins, and the IS battery starts my standard.

I checked that some bowls had fuel, then pulled plugs and spun it over expecting fuel to spray out.  Nothing happened.  Plugs wells stayed dry, didn't make my garage smell like gas.  How could I have gas in the bowls but none getting in the cylinders?  Grrrr!

When you say you checked that the carb bowls had gas. Did you do this by opening the bowl drains ? And if so, did you check them again after cranking on it ? I think the suggestion by Harry and Sandy that you might have unknowingly unhooked an electric fuel shut off sounds probable. The bowls could have had a little gas in them, but not enough to flow to the cylinders.

[Houdini]

You say you have spin, spark and fuel in the bowls. I would apply chock and turn the throttle all the way, trying to flowed the engine. When you smell fuel, you know it's now working.

You need spark (at the right time), fuel and the engine to turn for timing. If you have those, you run. Miss any one or more, no joy.

It sounds like you need fuel in the cylinder.

I tried this already and tried it again jumped to the second battery so I could do longer it without wearing down my battery, no joy.

It totally sounds like it isn't getting fuel, it tries so hard to start and occasionally does an almost start but just can't quite do it.

[Houdini]

Exactly what 'electrical bits' and wires did you remove? Is it possible one of them was for a hidden Danmarc fuel cutoff solenoid?

There is no Danmark on this bike, so no.  The electrical items I removed were LED's and various other addon's, most of which I installed over the years.  The only relay touched was the one for the pod lights, but it is a dedicated relay so would have affected nothing else.

[Houdini]

When you say you checked that the carb bowls had gas. Did you do this by opening the bowl drains ? And if so, did you check them again after cranking on it ? I think the suggestion by Harry and Sandy that you might have unknowingly unhooked an electric fuel shut off sounds probable. The bowls could have had a little gas in them, but not enough to flow to the cylinders.

Yes, by opening the drains and yes, I've done it more than once as I've tried to start the beast.  There is no electric shutoff for the fuel.

[3W-lonerider]

If you had Led,s under the tank. Any chance you pulled the wires of the coils.

[Houdini]

If you had Led,s under the tank. Any chance you pulled the wires of the coils.

None

[Houdini]

See if it will light up on starting fluid.  Give it  good blast under the front of the tank  to reach the intake. If it fires up than you problem is fuel.

I had thought of this but didn't have a can so I ran down and bought one this morning, yep, fired right up, reconfirming my thought that fuel is the issue.

I pulled the tank off my standard and switched them, Standard runs and IS still won't start.

This eliminates tank and petcock, as the petcock works perfectly on both tanks, just not when installed on my IS.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I can feel your pain. As I understand everything, you have everything needed to run. I'm at a loss. 

[Jruby38]

My second piece of advice  is to ditch the OEM POS fuel valve. Replace with a manual Pingle.  No more worries about fuel delivery or hydro lock.  I did at first gas leak 16 years and 100k miles ago.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My second piece of advice  is to ditch the OEM POS fuel valve. Replace with a manual Pingle.  No more worries about fuel delivery or hydro lock.  I did at first gas leak 16 years and 100k miles ago.

Both his tanks are flowing properly. (190k on OEM POS)



Houdini, I know it's only been 2 weeks since it last ran properly. At this point, the only thing I can think of would be to remove carbs and clean and inspect. Not much help, but it would be my next move.

[da prez]

  I have been thinking (it hurts) about the no start. If it was brought to me , I would check to see if all plugs are working (yes , I know you said you did) there is fuel to the carbs. A short cut was already suggested. I use this on the dead bikes that are brought in. After initial checks , give it a whiff of ether (starting fluid) and see if it tries to start. This will tell if it is fuel or electrical. If it starts or tries , its fuel.  There is a possibility it is not cranking over fast enough (starter rpm). In the process of removing parts , you may have to go back and start over. Do not assume that it was checked , recheck. Shut off the fuel and drain all the carbs. Turn fuel on and use a vacuum to get fuel to refill carbs. Then you will know if fuel is flowing. Open the fuel tank , you may be vacuum locked.
  Let us know.

                                       da prez 

[Pete]

I assume you have tried starting with and without the enrichners (choke).
If so are you sure the enrichners are working?

If you try repeatedly with the enrichners on you should eventually smell fuel, if they are working.

Assuming everything else is OK, check for a massive vacuum leak. That would lean it so much that it would not get enough fuel to start.

When you get it running by spraying starting fluid can you keep it running by holding the throttle open, like above 1500 rpm?

[gordonv]

I would make a temp fuel tank, at this point. A pint of fuel you can hang above the carbs and directly feed them with fuel.

If you had a vacuum pump, then you could verify the petcock vacuum is working, pull a vacuum, and verify fuel flow from it.

Now you'll have fuel to your carbs.


Still no fuel smell out the back of the bike when the enricher is on, and repeated cranking?

You are saying that the bike shows some signs of life, but just wont run.

It totally sounds like it isn't getting fuel, it tries so hard to start and occasionally does an almost start but just can't quite do it.

[Moonshot_1]

Is there enough gas in the tank? Have you tried to start it in the reserve position?

[Steel cowboy]

Try swapping the ecm's too

[9Ball]

Did you get the petcock on/off/reserve out of order?  Could it be off when the knob is turned to run?

[Bighead]

The last 5 posters must not have read where he said he swapped tanks. And it still wont start.

[Houdini]

I assume you have tried starting with and without the enrichners (choke).
If so are you sure the enrichners are working?

This triggered a thought, I had the carb covers off so did I get the chokes right when I put them on?  Nope, the choke rails were installed but not properly connected to the carbs.  So off they came and hooked up properly.  This bike has always been a cold-hearted beast and requires heavy choke.  So once back together she started.  I guess the two weeks of sitting made it that much harder to start without a choke.

She starts, and idles ok, but will not run between idle and full throttle.

Assuming everything else is OK, check for a massive vacuum leak.

This triggered another thought, I had pulled the intakes and put the old ones back on, reusing the old o-rings.  I had 5 new o-rings in the garage so I changed that many.  She is running a little better but still isn't running as she should.

So now I just need to figure out what else I missed or screwed-up when reassembling the bike, I should probably stop doing weekend marathon wrench sessions.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Jims99]

If she’s always been cold hearted and needs a lot of choke, check mixture screws and maybe back out 1/4 turn each. This could also help with above idel throttle.

[Edvalk]

Have you check the kill switch . On my 98 std. if I bump the bottom of the kill switch it will kill the motor. 20 year old switch rarely used . Could have a dead spot. Just a thought.

[Bagger John - #3785]

This

Have you check the kill switch . On my 98 std. if I bump the bottom of the kill switch it will kill the motor. 20 year old switch rarely used . Could have a dead spot. Just a thought.

Will not get you this:

She starts, and idles ok, but will not run between idle and full throttle.

Quantify "will not run between idle and full throttle". Abruptly dies, doesn't have power to get there, ?

[Houdini]

She starts, and idles ok, but will not run between idle and full throttle.

Quantify "will not run between idle and full throttle". Abruptly dies, doesn't have power to get there, ?

OK, she idles like a champ, studders and stumbles and I have to keep working the throttle to get any RPM out of the motor, once she reaches a fairly high RPM she seems to smooth out again, but this is sitting in the garage and not under load.

So dies if I try and hold RPM between roughtly 1500 and 3500.  My gut instinct is vacuum leak; she has been desmogged, I changed 5 of the 6 intake o-rings, and made sure all intake and carb boots are tight.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you had the airbox off, it's really easy to accidentally leave one or more tubes that connect the airbox to the carbs partially disconnected, that would be a massive vacuum leak.  Best to use a mirror to see the back sides.

[The emperor has no clothes]

She starts, and idles ok, but will not run between idle and full throttle.

Quantify "will not run between idle and full throttle". Abruptly dies, doesn't have power to get there, ?

OK, she idles like a champ, studders and stumbles and I have to keep working the throttle to get any RPM out of the motor, once she reaches a fairly high RPM she seems to smooth out again, but this is sitting in the garage and not under load.

So dies if I try and hold RPM between roughtly 1500 and 3500.  My gut instinct is vacuum leak; she has been desmogged, I changed 5 of the 6 intake o-rings, and made sure all intake and carb boots are tight.

I don't know, but it sounds like classic symptom of clogged slow speed jets.

[Ricky-D]

OK, she idles like a champ, studders and stumbles and I have to keep working the throttle to get any RPM out of the motor, once she reaches a fairly high RPM she seems to smooth out again, but this is sitting in the garage and not under load.

So dies if I try and hold RPM between roughtly 1500 and 3500.  My gut instinct is vacuum leak; she has been desmogged, I changed 5 of the 6 intake o-rings, and made sure all intake and carb boots are tight.

To me, this sounds like the carburetors are totally out of adjustment, needles, jets and float level. The CV feature of the carburetors is not working properly and are not in unison.

***