John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15193
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« on: December 19, 2018, 02:10:58 PM » |
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Guess I should have left them alone since they weren't leaking but being 20 yrs. old I felt it was a good move. Try as I will I can't get the new seal in far enough to install the snap ring and by now the seal probably isn't worth installing anyway. I've popped the tube out three times to remove the new seal and start over, still no luck. Just wondering....that one bushing that moves, is it supposed to go into the tube all the way or is it stationary. It's the one that doesn't sit in a slot/groove. With the washer in place, it appears to leave just enough room for the seal but the seal won't go down enough for the snap ring so can't help but wonder if the bushing is not in far enough. I finally had to walk away from the whole mess, I have neither the time or patience to waste on it, I'll try again in a few days....or more. I've worked on forks in the past and never had this problem, but they weren't inverted forks like these abortions.  |
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Grumpy
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 04:44:18 PM » |
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I bet a nickle you are using all balls seals, I quit using them for that reason, too damm hard to drive in.
Never have a problem with oem seals.
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 Life is like a hot bath. It feels good while you’re in it, but the longer you stay in, the more wrinkled you get. |
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15193
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 06:32:31 PM » |
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I bet a nickle you are using all balls seals, I quit using them for that reason, too damm hard to drive in.
Never have a problem with oem seals.
You won the nickel Bill. I've asked and others have said they had good luck with them, wonder if I could sell them to those people.  Do you happen to have a set I could buy for both forks? Still wondering about the one bushing, just how far in does it go....is it down to the bottom "ledge" below the seals. I don't see how they can go beyond that point since the split is only the thickness of a business card or less. It won't compress enough to go beyond that point, that's why I think they only go in that far. |
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Grumpy
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 06:41:43 PM » |
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I do not have any. Take a piece of wood and make sure the bushing and washer are all the way seated, some times they hang and do not go all the way in.
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Life is like a hot bath. It feels good while you’re in it, but the longer you stay in, the more wrinkled you get. |
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15193
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 07:51:59 PM » |
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Using the Honda tool TJ loaned me, I first can use it on the bushing until the tool bottoms on the fork tube, then lay the washer on it and it will tap in a bit further. The space left appears to be enough for the seal to fit in but it just won't go beyond being even with the edge of the fork tube. I think I'll quit with the All Balls and order some OEM, was hoping to get it done and running before Jan 9, tentative surgery date for gall bladder removal. Got a stone in there over 1/2" in size, kinda kicking by butt.
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5492
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 08:02:13 AM » |
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It's not gonna be the bushing causing the issue.
Not sure on the all-balls...but on OEM you have the heavy steel washer inside, and NO washer outside (some of the aftermarket ones DO have a washer you install outside, and it won't work with OEM or some of the other aftermarket ones)...no washer outside on those and if you have one, there's not enough space for the clip to go in.
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer  |
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15193
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 09:05:33 AM » |
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OK Daniel, now I'm confused(not unusual). The OEM(factory) seals have the external washer, so how do I ID the All Balls as to whether they have the internal washer. When looking at it with the washer installed and the AB seals in as far as possible, it appears to be lacking that little extra space for the clip which also looks to be about the same thickness as the washer. For that matter, what's the purpose of the washer, it just seems to fit in there loose and creates a separation between the seal and bushing.
This is really bugging me, I did the 1200 forks in just a couple hours, including removal and dismantling & cleaning.
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5492
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 09:25:50 AM » |
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OK Daniel, now I'm confused(not unusual). The OEM(factory) seals have the external washer, so how do I ID the All Balls as to whether they have the internal washer. When looking at it with the washer installed and the AB seals in as far as possible, it appears to be lacking that little extra space for the clip which also looks to be about the same thickness as the washer. For that matter, what's the purpose of the washer, it just seems to fit in there loose and creates a separation between the seal and bushing.
This is really bugging me, I did the 1200 forks in just a couple hours, including removal and dismantling & cleaning.
The OEM seals do NOT have an external washer. Only the internal one. (#8) If you have an external washer, it's NOT OEM. If your new AB seal kit didn't have a washer with them, you don't need the external one and should toss it. DO be sure you have the internal one, OEM or aftermarket seals both need it.  |
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 09:29:53 AM by Daniel Meyer »
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer |
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15193
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 09:47:52 AM » |
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OK, the seals I removed are original from the factory and have the #8 washer on both. The AB kit I got did not have any washers with it, just the seals. I thought #8 would be considered an "external" washer but guess not. The forks are exactly as the parts breakdown picture shows, yet when trying to install the new oil seal it won't go in far enough to allow the snap ring to be set in place. I find that strange because I just went out and compared the height of the new against the old and they appear to be the same. I just ordered an OEM set and will set this part of the project aside for now and rebuild the calipers and install new pads. Need to keep idle fingers busy, the brain has been idling for quite some time! |
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5492
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 09:59:30 AM » |
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OK, the seals I removed are original from the factory and have the #8 washer on both. The AB kit I got did not have any washers with it, just the seals. I thought #8 would be considered an "external" washer but guess not. The forks are exactly as the parts breakdown picture shows, yet when trying to install the new oil seal it won't go in far enough to allow the snap ring to be set in place. I find that strange because I just went out and compared the height of the new against the old and they appear to be the same. I just ordered an OEM set and will set this part of the project aside for now and rebuild the calipers and install new pads. Need to keep idle fingers busy, the brain has been idling for quite some time! Cool. I call the #8 "internal" as in, it's inside the fork, not outside the seal. Some aftermarket seals include another washer to be installed between the clip and the seal (their seal is thinner) and that often confuses the issue. |
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer |
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