Gavin_Sons
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Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« on: March 02, 2019, 03:19:40 AM » |
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Do you agree with having hate crime laws or are you like me and believe all crime is a form of hate. Why should certain races of people be protected? Are we all not the same? Here in Indiana this is mostly coming from Muslims. I believe any violence toward another human should bear the same consequences no matter what race you are. Just because you are white and are violent toward a black guy does not make it any more unlawful than a black guy doing the same toward a white guy. I think these laws are bullshit.
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 03:26:48 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME
Dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2019, 03:39:33 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME
Dan
Short but BANG ON...  Hug Your First Amendment. It is becoming a rarity in this increasingly effed up progressive world and rejected by the party of the Nancy Pelosi/Justin Trudeau types who want it "amended"(Gone) everywhere. My own federal government has compelled me to use the twisted "Gender-Alphabet" community's ever increasing numbers of pronouns, not by mutual respect in a conversation, but by threat of prosecution...Thanks Justin!!Please Forgive me if it seems like I am on an overall personal rant lately...It's Not for me, but for my five grandbabies... That gives me skin in the 'near future game'. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:08:36 AM by 7th_son »
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8741
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 03:59:30 AM » |
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Hate crime laws are them selves discriminatory. I agree with you Gavin. And Dirty Dan.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16793
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 04:11:38 AM » |
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I'm with Gavin and Dan...
-Mike
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2019, 04:14:16 AM » |
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Jordan Peterson's opinion nails it!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44pERGAaKHw And...even more to the point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEOHQoh82bs .. Quote-"Ha, Gotcha!!" Peterson  Why the hell should all of us be conversationally kneecapped to fit the agenda of a collection of gender confused individuals who make up only a part of one percent of the population. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:12:56 AM by 7th_son »
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Say what you mean, Mean what you say.
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LTD
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2019, 04:59:53 AM » |
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The term hate crime is insane proof we as a country have gone nuts.
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
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Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 05:14:36 AM » |
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The very people who will have a hand in defining hate speech laws are exactly the ones you don't want to decide your future laws. How do I know...carefully re-read the comment I made, high-lited in yellow above...Hug your First Amendment.
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:20:58 AM by 7th_son »
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Say what you mean, Mean what you say.
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Robert
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 05:30:19 AM » |
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 05:36:58 AM » |
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You best thank Trump for selecting 2 supreme court justices that will help block the Democrat insanity...up next...Ruth Bader Ginsburg ...unless...they plan on rolling out what looks like a corpse into the courtroom. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:14:29 AM by 7th_son »
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16735
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2019, 05:45:11 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 Hate crime legislation is a precursor to elimination of free speech and religious freedom. It's my understanding that in Canada a preacher can be charged for publicly saying that the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:52:28 AM by Willow »
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2019, 05:54:11 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 -1 Hate crimes are not about thoughts. Per Wikipedia : The term "hate crime" came into common usage in the United States during the 1980s, but the term is often used retrospectively in order to describe events which occurred prior to that era.[9] From the Roman persecution of Christians to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, hate crimes were committed by both individuals and governments long before the term was commonly used.[4] A major part of defining a crime as a hate crime is that it is directed toward a historically oppressed group.[10][11] I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime. |
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2019, 06:02:38 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 -1 Hate crimes are not about thoughts. Per Wikipedia : The term "hate crime" came into common usage in the United States during the 1980s, but the term is often used retrospectively in order to describe events which occurred prior to that era.[9] From the Roman persecution of Christians to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, hate crimes were committed by both individuals and governments long before the term was commonly used.[4] A major part of defining a crime as a hate crime is that it is directed toward a historically oppressed group.[10][11] I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime. Ha...nice try...Wikipedia shadow bans or completely eliminates the opinions(truth) from those they don't agree with, just like the rest of the Bay Area Lefties who run the politically correct groupthink around Social Media. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:07:33 AM by 7th_son »
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16735
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2019, 06:07:13 AM » |
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I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime.
Wikipedia is not an expert in anything although it presents sometimes useful and interesting information. Anyone can originate a Wikipedia article and so long as it is confirmed by a group (culturally acceptable) it will be retained. The entire point is that separate hate crime legislation punishes the motivation above the crime itself. It is, as used today, thought management. Murder is murder. The result is the same no matter the motivation. So should be the legal consequence. Assault is assault no matter the motivation. Theft is theft. Slander is slander. Hate crime legislation is adding more punishment if "we" don't like the way the criminal thinks. |
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da prez
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2019, 06:07:19 AM » |
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If I remember , it used to be called mob action.
My next statement will bring an apology before posting. I mean no offense to anyone here.
Why is it when a black (African American) is shot by a white (Caucasian) person , it is in the news that way. But when the opposite happens , it is not mentioned . When you see the pictures posted , then it is learned who was the shooter. In yesterdays paper , it was in three different stories.
Are the newspapers so jaded or afraid to print the truth.
da prez
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Serk
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 06:18:31 AM » |
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Hate crime laws create protected classes of people, and unprotected classes of people.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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f6john
Member
Posts: 9634
Christ first and always
Richmond, Kentucky
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2019, 06:26:12 AM » |
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So if I don’t like how Meathead thinks has he committed a hate crime or have I? Just kidding Meathead, after years of back and forth on this forum, I have absolutely no idea how you think |
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Black Pearl's Captain
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2019, 06:27:46 AM » |
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If I remember , it used to be called mob action.
My next statement will bring an apology before posting. I mean no offense to anyone here.
Why is it when a black (African American) is shot by a white (Caucasian) person , it is in the news that way. But when the opposite happens , it is not mentioned . When you see the pictures posted , then it is learned who was the shooter. In yesterdays paper , it was in three different stories.
Are the newspapers so jaded or afraid to print the truth.
da prez
Probably just habit. Like when someone calls a black man born in the USA "(African)". |
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2019, 06:30:05 AM » |
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The ........IDEA!!!!!! Is
The .........IDEA
Dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2019, 06:32:59 AM » |
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I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime.
Wikipedia is not an expert in anything although it presents sometimes useful and interesting information. Anyone can originate a Wikipedia article and so long as it is confirmed by a group (culturally acceptable) it will be retained. The entire point is that separate hate crime legislation punishes the motivation above the crime itself. It is, as used today, thought management. Murder is murder. The result is the same no matter the motivation. So should be the legal consequence. Assault is assault no matter the motivation. Theft is theft. Slander is slander. Hate crime legislation is adding more punishment if "we" don't like the way the criminal thinks. Were that the case, then we wouldn’t have different degrees of murder, assault, etc. All crimes probably have some degree of “thought”. As a society we deem different degrees of the thought more egregious. Personally I think this punishment should be left to a jury or a judge. (But nobody is willing to put me in charge) |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2019, 06:38:46 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 -1 Hate crimes are not about thoughts. Per Wikipedia : The term "hate crime" came into common usage in the United States during the 1980s, but the term is often used retrospectively in order to describe events which occurred prior to that era.[9] From the Roman persecution of Christians to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, hate crimes were committed by both individuals and governments long before the term was commonly used.[4] A major part of defining a crime as a hate crime is that it is directed toward a historically oppressed group.[10][11] I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime. Ha...nice try...Wikipedia shadow bans or completely eliminates the opinions(truth) from those they don't agree with, just like the rest of the Bay Area Lefties who run the politically correct groupthink around Social Media. Are these guys biased too ? https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/hate-crime/pages/welcome.aspx |
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ValkStrom
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2019, 06:48:32 AM » |
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We have too much worthless legislation as it is, and many of such isn't even enforced to begin with. Comparing "hate crimes" to degrees of murder charges is ridiculous, if a labeled hate crime ends up as a murder.....it's murder. The "left" is all about labeling and making anything or anyone a victim, so as long as it fit their agenda. Never let a good crisis go to waste, it's always an opportunity to manipulate and ruffle feathers. The problems with hate crimes too, is that these days......it doesn't apply to EVERYONE.  |
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97 yellow/black custom, 15 V-Strom 650XT
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2019, 06:49:25 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 -1 Hate crimes are not about thoughts. Per Wikipedia : The term "hate crime" came into common usage in the United States during the 1980s, but the term is often used retrospectively in order to describe events which occurred prior to that era.[9] From the Roman persecution of Christians to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, hate crimes were committed by both individuals and governments long before the term was commonly used.[4] A major part of defining a crime as a hate crime is that it is directed toward a historically oppressed group.[10][11] I think the idea is to add extra punishment to the crime. Ha...nice try...Wikipedia shadow bans or completely eliminates the opinions(truth) from those they don't agree with, just like the rest of the Bay Area Lefties who run the politically correct groupthink around Social Media. Are these guys biased too ? https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/hate-crime/pages/welcome.aspxThanks for making my point for me...The FBI and the administrations in the article ultimately don't get to define hate crime...your constitution with the aid of 9 justices in the final analysis decide anything that is challenged. Hopefully you have a majority of the 9 that believe in the constitution above their personal opinions and biases. |
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Say what you mean, Mean what you say.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2019, 07:38:09 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 Hate crime legislation is a precursor to elimination of free speech and religious freedom. It's my understanding that in Canada a preacher can be charged for publicly saying that the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. It's getting that way here too Carl. The Bible doesn't prohibit homosexual behavior as it (God) doesn't prevent or make the behavior impossible. But it does define it as sin and not acceptable. The LGBT community in America is gaining power and pretty soon if not stopped they will try to prohibit such sermons |
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2019, 07:45:24 AM » |
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Hate crime = THOUGHT CRIME +1 Hate crime legislation is a precursor to elimination of free speech and religious freedom. It's my understanding that in Canada a preacher can be charged for publicly saying that the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior. It's getting that way here too Carl. The Bible doesn't prohibit homosexual behavior as it (God) doesn't prevent or make the behavior impossible. But it does define it as sin and not acceptable. The LGBT community in America is gaining power and pretty soon if not stopped they will try to prohibit such sermons The extremely minor percentage of the population...the Gender Alphabet Community, running the agenda...radicalized political correctness running amok. We already don't say much within earshot of strangers for fear of having a glass of wine splashed in our faces...or worse...reported to our nervous publically conscious employers who are being forced to fire us rather than face unstoppable public scorn. We have to some degree become closet dwelling conservatives just to have a break from the insanity. Lord help you if you wear a MAGA hat. That act is reserved for those of us who have little left to lose. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 07:57:36 AM by 7th_son »
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Gavin_Sons
Member
Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 08:09:14 AM » |
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Everyone's thoughts were exactly where I was expecting them.
It angers me that some classes of people think they need more protection than others. Mainly right now it is the alphabet soup gays and muslims. What if a Muslim that has this extra protection kills a gay with extra protection? Does the 2 extra protections cancel each other out and go back to square one?
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 08:20:16 AM » |
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Western criminal law has been very similar, with small changes and improvements, over the centuries.
All crimes are either general intent (simple assault) or specific intent (larceny, 1st & 2d degree murder). And all crimes carry a maximum or range of authorized punishments (including recidivist enhancement of punishments). You either specifically intend the crime, or commit it in willful reckless disregard for probable consequences, or through gross negligence.
Hate crime legislation was nothing more than left wing progressive pandering to their base. It's all about how it looks, not what it does. It actually makes a prosecutor's job harder, as it adds a new layer of proofs beyond what already exited to prove assault, mayhem, or murder. Anyone who likes law and order should never want to make a prosecutor's job harder.
1st degree murder requires premeditation, planning, lying in wait, which is a specific intent crime. We think of it as about the worst crime there is, and we arrange for people convicted of it to hang, or do life without parole. So adding hate crime to it can not enhance the sentence, only the optics.
Hate crime legislation is simple bullsh!t. If you intend to murder your wife for adultery, or your neighbor for rape of a family member, or a policeman for trying to catch you, or your kidnap victim because his family won't pay, are these murders somehow less wrong because your motivation wasn't about race or gender or sexual orientation?
Each crime has a maximum (or range) of authorized punishment. If it is determined that the punishment isn't strong enough, then it should be changed for everyone equally, not just for a specific class of people.
As noted above, if I kill or seriously maim you on purpose with an evil intent, don't I hate you? Why do we need degrees of hate (regular, and extra crispy)? Other than to collect additional voters at the polls.
Don't look behind the curtain, there's nothing there to see.
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 08:33:18 AM by Jess from VA »
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 08:28:59 AM » |
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Ya...and we have all the new 'boutique protected class crimes' where intent is defined by the supposed "victim" which also does away with every level of jurisprudence. Tribunals not courts of law. The new Tribunals are gang like twitter storms that destroy people who are guilty of wrongthink. You are a star one day and a dreg the next because of a slip up in your use of an unfortunate comment.
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 08:37:28 AM by 7th_son »
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Gavin_Sons
Member
Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 08:33:44 AM » |
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Because some people need held by the hand and told how to think by the media and lawmakera?
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 08:36:41 AM » |
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Appeals to emotion, not to logic.
With the effect of driving the country further apart (on every possible occasion).
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Gryphon Rider
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Posts: 5232
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2019, 08:39:35 AM » |
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It's my understanding that in Canada a preacher can be charged for publicly saying that the Bible prohibits homosexual behavior.
Anybody can be charged with anything, but then there's the matter of getting a conviction, then making it stick as it goes through the appeals process and constitutional challenges. I'm pretty sure there is no criminal offence with that end specifically in mind, and if a preacher has been "charged" with that, I am unaware of it. I'm not a lawyer, but I pay attention to these things when they hit the news. I've always been against the concept of a hate crime, i.e. considering a crime to be more heinous because it was motivated by a hatred of a particular class of people. Is stabbing someone because you hate their skin colour worse than stabbing your brother because you've developed hatred of him for other reasons? I don't think so. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 08:41:37 AM by Gryphon Rider »
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Alberta Patriot
Member
Posts: 1438
Say What You mean Mean What You Say
Rockyview County, Alberta 2001 Interstate
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2019, 08:47:07 AM » |
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When skin color is involved there is a whole different class of public and judicial scrutiny involved...from what I have seen lately, whether it is or is not true.
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16735
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2019, 08:52:46 AM » |
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...
Hate crime legislation is adding more punishment if "we" don't like the way the criminal thinks.
Were that the case, then we wouldn’t have different degrees of murder, assault, etc. All crimes probably have some degree of “thought”. As a society we deem different degrees of the thought more egregious. Personally I think this punishment should be left to a jury or a judge. (But nobody is willing to put me in charge) A badly misdirected comparison. Degrees of crime are determined by how much they were planned (intended). That is, a distinction is made between accidental, sudden choice, or premeditated. It does not address reason or motivation (that is both redundant and repititious). |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16735
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2019, 08:58:06 AM » |
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Well, yes. Aren't they part of the culture that is promoting the prosecution of and enforcing "hate crimes"? I apologize fro the slow response. I'm out of town but occasionally on the net. |
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signart
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2019, 09:01:19 AM » |
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Well, I know getting murdered with a gun is much worse than say, being pushed out of a window.
I know accidently shooting someone with a gun is more tragic than say, accidently running over someone with your car.
So much... deader.
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Gavin_Sons
Member
Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2019, 09:06:49 AM » |
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Well, I know getting murdered with a gun is much worse than say, being pushed out of a window.
I know accidently shooting someone with a gun is more tragic than say, accidently running over someone with your car.
So much... deader.
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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2019, 09:45:42 AM » |
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Hate based crime certainly seems to be on the rise judging by all the people being assaulted for wearing MAGA hats. In spite of that, I see judging the severity of a crime based on the beliefs, race or religion of those involved as being "state sponsored bigotry" which clearly doesn't belong in America.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964  |
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5766
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2019, 02:53:24 PM » |
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I agree with Gavin's original post.
One other "hate crime" that we have here in Vancouver BC, is against gays (LGBT).
I take offense that the "crime" is given a perceived higher level of "offense" than the same act against one individual than another, based soully on their race or sexual orientation.
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Wizzard
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Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2019, 05:22:19 AM » |
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I feel the "hate crime" movement is just a way to force me not to spout my opinion. I other words, it is a way to force me to agree with what I do not agree with. Also forces me to not be able to talk about it.
Just another freedom lost. We are getting our rights chipped away at one by one.
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G-Man
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« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2019, 07:10:55 AM » |
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Hate crime laws create protected classes of people, and unprotected classes of people.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Which has given rise to hatred directed at white men so easily and uncontested nowadays. It also has given rise to the new definition of racism which excludes blacks and other minorities from being racist. Racism now means hatred towards a specific group " from a position of power". You see, blacks and other minorities aren't in positions of power, therefore can't be racist. |
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