progressive 430s

[Kaahn]

Bought these for my valk... they are the 11.5"

My complaint is that they are extremely stiff... I feel like I'm about to get launched every time I hit a bump.. hurts my back rather than absorbing things.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AWMD9I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Could it be the spring? I bought them from Amazon... Not sure if there's any solution before I try buying an entire new setup.

[Itinifni]

According to the Progressive spec sheet the 430-4202B shock has 210-250 lbs/In springs.
I have 444-4213C shocks on my bike with 120/170 springs and am quite happy.

I'm sure others will chime in but I think most of us using Progressives run springs in the 120/170 to 140/200 range depending on load requirements.

[Jess from VA]

Stock shock length is 13".

11.5" is as short as you can go, and a shorter shock means less available travel for comfort and dampening.  Add in heavier springs, and there you go.

Perhaps Progressive might rebuild them for you with a lower spring rate, but they can never be 13" chushy. (not that my old 13" 440s have ever been really cushy)

An Airhawk air cushion on the seat (blown up pretty good) might absorb a little of the jolt, but will raise you up in the seat a little.

[Kaahn]

Thanks for the replies!

Could I just order new springs and have my mechanic do it? Or is this something only progressive can do for me? Sounds like I need the 140/200, as I am 200 lbs.


If not, I think I will just try to get my hands on 444's.. I'd like to retain the lower rear end suspension just for the look and style, but if it really makes this huge of a difference on comfort I might have to go back to stock.

[MarkT]

Thanks for the replies!

Could I just order new springs and have my mechanic do it? Or is this something only progressive can do for me? Sounds like I need the 140/200, as I am 200 lbs.


If not, I think I will just try to get my hands on 444's.. I'd like to retain the lower rear end suspension just for the look and style, but if it really makes this huge of a difference on comfort I might have to go back to stock.

No, the springs and damper go togther,  are matchd per Jorge, Progressive's tech expert.  I tried that - bought different springs for a 444 13" shock, originally 105/150 springs IIRC.  After trying several I arrived at 444-4057 shocks with their 140/200 springs.  I did try their 444-4030 which have 210/250 springs.  Very harsh felt like a hardtail even with zero preload.  I run the 4057's with max preload and never change it.  I pull trailers and sometimes have a 130# co-rider.  It's great for me.  I was 295# at max but now have lost 50#.  Working on getting down to around 200#.  Your best bet is to buy new 444 shocks correct for you and sell the old ones online.  These 444's are excellent shocks when matched to your needs, head and shoulders above the 416's (air shocks) and the OEM's. They have a tech table on https://www.progressivesuspension.com/assets/files/7100-105-Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf

BTW they claim 444's don't fit our Valks.  WRONG.  You have to do a small mod on one of the sleeves which are included in their pkg.  Easy.

[rug_burn]

  Like you, I'm over the stiff shock thing.   I actually got a pair of the generic 13" Progressive 421's with all the adapter sleeves, and I like them a lot.   It took shortening the sleeves a little, about  1/16", to make them fit, but they do two things I really like: 
1.  they raise the rear end up to stock height to give me more ground clearance in corners, etc.
2.  they give me a very comfortable ride-  they soften out the bumps but don't seem at all mushy, or too soft. My stock Showa shocks were brutally stiff at the end.  I weigh about 220.

All I gotta do now is fix the forks.   

[Kaahn]

Ok I've narrowed it down to three choices

I am 6'2 and 205 lbs, I will RARELY carry one passenger and I don't ride with much luggage ever.
Also worth mentioning I chose to lower my rear end and rake my front triple trees by 6 degrees for that cool look.

444-4011B/C 11.50 292 8.98 228 2.52 64 E/E 03-1313-20B/C 115/155 2.05/2.77 10.75 273

444-4059B/C 11.50 292 9.73 247 1.77 45 E/E 03-1319-20B/30 140/180 2.50/3.21 11.00 279

444-4060B/C 11.50 292 9.73 247 1.77 45 E/E 03-1320-20B/30 165/205 2.95/3.66 11.00 279


I'm thinking this one:
444-4011B/C 11.50 292 8.98 228 2.52 64 E/E 03-1313-20B/C 115/155 2.05/2.77 10.75 273

since it has 2.52 of travel and looks like it will be the most comfortable ride for me.

I'd appreciate any input or advice 

[Jess from VA]

My only advice is to AT LEAST get 12" shocks. (for obvious reasons)

[Kaahn]

Actually I'll take your advice, I think I will go for 12" as it's still an inch lower than stock.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Suspension-444-4068B-Standard-Riders/dp/B007GREK88

444-4068B/C 12.00 305 10.51 254 1.49 51 E/E 1375-20B/30 115/155 2.05/2.77 11.50 292


Found the cheapest available one here:
http://www.directcycleparts.com
for $612

As soon as MarkT gives me his blessing I shall order it  

[MarkT]

Did you check Amazon as well?  (I didn't now but they had best price a couple years ago for mine)

Sounds like you made a choice, might be the right one for your use.  If it was me I would be sure to install them very carefully without marking them at all just in case you need to go up a bit on the spring weight.  If so you will have modified one of the sleeves so you'll need that out of the 2nd kit.  The outfit I got them from does not accept returns if they were installed.  Even so I had to return the 4039's with 210/250 springs so I had installed them very carefully and only tested the ride for a couple miles before rejecting them.  No marks on them at all so they were practically uninstalled.

I understand their rules but these shocks are very expensive and they give no guidance at all on wt vs. shocks needed - how are we the users supposed to make intelligent choices? Make the wrong one and be out the dough?  Or have to find a re-buyer online and lose some of the cost.  Perhaps a discussion with Jorge at Progressive would help on that but don't know if he offers such advice.  Don't recall that then so I had to figure it myself and still made a bad choice.  I would think they should.  With that advice and a guarantee they could increase their market share by likely more than the cost of the program. JMHO.

140/200's are working OK for me - but I don't have any extra preload left.  They are cranked all the way up.  With a brother on the back, or even another lighter rider I estimate at 170# she bottoms out.  No problem with just me and a trailer with plenty of tongue wt - maybe 70#.  Now my wt is going down so I should get some reserve.  I was at 290 when I got the shocks.  So perhaps double the lower number, compare to your wt and that shock will be close, maybe on the light side.   IOW, divide your wt by 2 and say the shock with that as a lower number will be minimum for you.  Just a SWAG - not responsible if you goof or even follow this and it's wrong.

[Itinifni]

I agree with Mark regarding the springs, the rate looks way to low for your weight.

At 150 lbs. the 120/170 springs work well for me solo and adequate two up but I think I could be just as happy with the 140/200.

[Kaahn]

Amazon is selling them @ 679, vs the $612 from directcycleparts    
As always thanks for the advice! I wish I had made this post the first time around lol


They unfortunately do not make the 444's in 12" with a 140/200 spring, the closest thing I've found was this @ 11.50 length, my current length. I was hoping to find something at 12-12.5"  


444-4059B/C 11.50 292 9.73 247 1.77 45 E/E 03-1319-20B/30 140/180 2.50/3.21 11.00 279

vs


444-4209B/C 12.50 318 9.53 242 2.97 75 E/E 03-1315-20B/30 125/170 2.14/3.04 11.50 292

[Kaahn]

alright....

I bought the 444-4221B .. at 13" and 140/200 from Amazon @ $500

going to play back at stock length and see how it is..... I hope I don't regret this   

[Jess from VA]

Good decision. 

Choose function over form every time.

If you like to lean the bike, you'll be happy.

[Steve K (IA)]

I need to get in this discussion.  First off, I'm at 300#.  I put 440HD Progressive on my 2000 I/S maybe in 2002.  They are worn out, I have the preload cranked up all the way.   I lost track of the receipt and can't get them fixed under warranty so have to buy a new pair.  For several years I rode 2 up and pulled a trailer all over the country.  Won't be anymore passengers.  Might pull the trailer occasionally.

I'm having trouble understanding the Spec tables at the link posted here.  Any informed ideas what 444's I need or should I call Progressive and try and talk to Jorge that Mark T has mentioned?

[MarkT]

First off what they used to call "HD" shocks didn't mean Heavy Duty. It meant Harley Davidson.  Their spring weight was the anemic 105/150.  Light duty for our bikes.  This is per Jorge at Progressive. Your shocks might even have the wt marked on the coils - they do nowadays.  Even now they say the 444's don't fit Valkyries.  Again, baloney.  Lots of us adapted them but that means their support advice is lacking.  You need to mod one of the included sleeves - just shorten it a bit.

What length do you need - are you at the OEM height of 13"?  If I were you I'd try the next closest spring weight up from 140/200 if it's close and install them carefully in case you need to go down to the 140/200 rated shocks.  (Because if they look like they were installed you will have to sell them online to recover your money - see my comment above).

Looking at Progressive 444 specs, the next 13" spring wt up from 140/200 is 210/250.  I tried that one and at my 290# it felt like a hardtail with preload at zero.  Looks like they need another spring wt in between for you.  ( I would have preferred that as well - but my weight is going down now so 140/200 gives me some margin.)  Or you could go for one of the 140/200's and have no margin for a heavier co-rider, if you don't need to allow for that.  Note the differences with the shocks at the same length and spring range is the travel.