We need to remember that as Americans, we have made grave errors.

[Momz]

Todays schools don't teach history as many of us have lived through it. And yes, our memories are fading.
As Americans, Liberals, Conservatives, Christians or not, we have made mistakes and we should teach our children that history is made of victory and shame, joy and sorrow, and we should forgive as well as ask for forgiveness.

Let us never forget the incidents at Ruby Ridge, the Waco massacre, and Wounded Knee.

Stories from Wounded Knee, 1973	powered by Aeva

Stories from Wounded Knee, 1973 Part 2	powered by Aeva

Stories from Wounded Knee, 1973 Part 3	powered by Aeva

Stories from Wounded Knee, 1973 Part 4	powered by Aeva

Oun this day after Thanksgiving, lets give thanks for the good we share and pray that we will not make the same mistakes in our future.

[fudgie]

Good post. I never was into history till I was outta school. I like Civil War and history of the West. I didn't like how we handled the Native Americans in the 1800's. One of our errors.  I been to wounded Knee. Neat place.

 "Those that forget the past are bound to redeem it.'

[Willow]

Maybe a good follow up would be an interview with a Viet Cong vet on the handling of the war in Vietnam.  It's difficult to still find one of the ranking German Nazis or an Imperial Japanese general from World War II.

I find something strangely inconsistent with harsh criticism of of the influx and influence of Middle Eastern peoples; resentment of the cultural change brought about by the increasing inclusion of Latin Americans; and sympathy with the twentieth century American Indian cause.

Peoples have been displacing peoples for as long as time has been.  The Indians who whine about being displaced by Europeans don't usually want to talk about what their own ancestors did as they displaced the ones who were before them, or even the inhumanity of territorial conflicts between pre-Columbian Indian tribes and clans.

Some of my ancestors were Indian.  Most of my relatives of those lines have melted entirely into the modern American culture.  Some haven't.

Incidentally, anyone born in these United States is a native American.  Most Indians will take offense at that title.

As to peoples displacing peoples, the European dominated culture of the United States of America will be displaced.  It's not yet clear who will do the displacing, but it will likely happen within the remaining lifetime of some of us. 

Perhaps my observation is incorrect.  Perhaps it's not an inconsistency to always identify with the people being displaced.
     

[Momz]

Willow,
You make a good point!
I however am a child of WWII immigrants displaced due to the anexation of Austria and Hungary by the Germans. And the strange part is that most of my ancestors were german to begin with.
But the Native Americans were here looong before the Europeans came to claim this country.
Their story needs to be told and retold, and not just after thought in a US History class.

[MP]

I believe Willows point was that there were LOTS of different american indian tribes, not just "one" as a lot of us tend to lump them together.

If you go back before any white man came here, the various tribes were busy killing each other, and taking their lands.  That tribe would then move, and kill, and displace another tribe.  This went on all the time.  Boundaries moved back and forth all the time as tribes moved around, grew in strength, and waned in strength.

His point is:  they were doing to theirselves the same thing the european is always accused of doing to them.  Killing and displacing them.

A lot of people think the indians always lived in the same areas of land, and lived peacefully with each other.  NOT TRUE!

Europeans did nothing different to the am indians than different tribes and groups and nationalities have been doing to each other since the beginning of time.  However, it seems like this time, it will not be forgotten.  It has gone on since time began.  Find a map of the world from the time of Columbus.  You will be amazed at how FEW countries are the same as they were just a few hundred years ago.

If I misspoke for you Willow, please correct me.

MP

[fudgie]

True. But it was the whites that made the treaties to accomadate themselves and we were the ones to break them. Esp when gold was found. The Black Hills were 'given' to the Lakota by the US signed in the Ft Laramie Treaty. But when gold was found, opps to bad, move on. I think they are still waiting to have the land returned. Look up Bear Butte Mountain. They are still fighting to have it sacred. Instead bars and camp grounds are going up nearby (Thx Jay Allen)  . Plus I don't think other tribes forced other tribes to go to white schools in PA and learn the white ways and not practice theirs without persocution. Wonded Knee was wrong, what Custer attempted to do was wrong, Trail of Tears was wrong, etc. 
I read a article not to long ago about a law suit by the Lakota Nation to a couple of whites about a Treaty violation. I think we will know how this one will turn out, just like the rest of them.

[Willow]

Melvin is quite correct, but not just regarding the North American continent.  The current occupants of Great Britain, Europe, Egypt, and virtually every other spot on the face of the Earth are peoples who have displaced previous peoples.  Does it make it right?  I don't truly know.  Does it make it the way things are and will continue to be?  I think so.

Treaties between the U.S. government and the various Indian tribes were broken on both sides and often.  Neither group has a reason to claim the high ground on the issue of treaties.

As to making Indian children attend schools in Pennsylvania and learn the language and ways of the conquering people, yes, actually some of the tribes did, in fact, take their enemies' children and train them to be children and/or slaves of the conquering tribe.

The worst off, economically and socially, of the Indians are those still living on the reservations on entitlements granted by the U.S. government (as given by the treaties).  The Indian nations don't need more adherence to the treaties and entitlements and they don't need to return to miles and miles of unoccupied prairie or other "happy hunting grounds".

I know I don't.  In my opinion what we all need is equal opportunity and treatment under the law.

I'm a little opinionated and not at all sympathetic to whining coming from much, if any, quarter. 

Just my most humble opinion.      

 

[fudgie]

As always, I respect what you say and your opinion. 
I've ridden through 100's of miles of Reservations and it is sad. The housing and properties are all in distress. Its not our fault. People should have respect for themselves to. To be honest, the very 1st Lakota Indiana I talked to was stereotypictal, imho. He was drunk or shall I say, exhibited signs of alcohol intoxication, and wanted me to buy him whiskey. 100 miles later I talked to another for awhile at Wounded Knee. He was a artist and was heading to Ind for a art show.
I am sympathetic to them tho, or am I empathectic?  After being on Bear Butte numberous times and seeing how important it is to them and then look down and see/hear bars and campgrounds, it makes you think, at least me. I do have a soft side! 
You are so right when you say we need "equal opportunity and treatment under the law". But I don't see everyone being equal anytime soon. We both know that! 

Like my 1st response to Momz, my favorite saying is 'those that forget the past are bound to redeem it'.