SS Brake line development - aka Spiegler Performance AND Waht is your interest?

[mello dude]

Giving an update on Stainless Steel Brake lines from Spiegler.

- I have add my caveats...
> This goes with my never ending saga for the restomod on my standard.
> So the idea was.is to build lines that drop in to the stock location using the mini brackets that bolt to the triple tree.
> A couple members were nice enough to lend me their loose triples to help fitting and quality. Thanks Sandy and Black Dog!  
> I wanted to check everything against more than one, so now I have 3 for a quality fit check.
> And a 2 cent resume is that I am an automotive engineer by trade, so I am gonna make damn sure the final will work.
> Then several guys asked that they could order whatever I come up with, so the idea is that you will be able to order the Valkyrie Club design from Spiegler, or it may be me. TBD
> Almost forgot... I live 10 minute away from Spiegler and have dropped in on various bike line project with good success.

So there are lots of pictures, so I will use quite a few posts....  
I'm splitting it into rear first, then have a bunch of stuff for the front.

[mello dude]

Starting out on the rear....
While working on the rear, I discovered that it has conflated twists and turns in the mounting around the swingarm... I think that to try to keep the OEM mounting pattern with a stiff SS line would end up to be a PIA..... and I thought  it would be just easy to get the last 6ish inch piece built. So that was my focus for that piece since I wanted a red banjo to mount to the caliper. --- The OEM front line, and hard piping is still available, so I ordered those new as replacement.....  -- If Partzilla had stock, I should buy..  

Rear Pics. Original OEM line on right... Replacement line on the left.. Simple stuff....

[mello dude]

Rear pic...

The OEM line on the left (its no longer available) ... replacement on the right... I'm going to take the OEM braket off and add it to the new line.




So much to do about the rear, the short line will be available. Any colors...



mini update.. I am going to do a test tryout within the next week to see if I got the length good to nail it and call it a final..... Report soon... 

[mello dude]

The Fronts.....
My idea for the front line is to use the standard mini brackets that bolt to the triple tree,.. Honda calls them --- stays....
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1999/gl1500c-a-valkyrie/fr-brake-master-cyl

#5 & #6  in the fische.. ... so that its a no hassle drop in. That's waht I'm after and committd to. Otherwise, I would just order a 2 line kit and be done with it.
But the 2 line would not look as neat or nice, so my OCD on demand self has to do it the hard way......

So here's a pic of the OEM lines... 3 Lines with a pipe in the middle... #4 in the fische...

[mello dude]

More Front stuff.
My idea was to mimic the OEM as much as possible and Spiegler has Tee's that should work out good also, I have been thinking to just use the OEM center pipe. Then just bolt on the mini brackets and go to town.

It looks like..

[mello dude]

Pic 2 - Spiegler with center pipe..


OEM and Spiegler back to back...


Mini bracket bolts directly on Spiegler fitting..

[mello dude]

Ohhhh.... Trouble in Paradise!

The assembled Spiegler Line with the OEM center pipe is too long by about 15mm.. (Sh!t)


How its supposed to look....--OEM lines mounted...
>>>>>-- Can someone take a peek on their own bike and see..
>>>>>>>>>>>Does the pipe point forward or backward?-- It points backward in the pic below.

[mello dude]

Putting a scale on it...
OEM

[mello dude]

Scale on the Spiegler part.

[mello dude]

So now time for a PLAN B  . If you have built or customized a bike here and there, you know good and well that it doesnt always work out the first time....

I'm kinda at ok, the OEM center pipe thing may not be the best way to go, and maybe drop it. But to replace with another SS line in the middle to make up for an exact fit up .. But durn burn it, thats more bucks..

Maybe drop the mini bracket idea and build my own.... I could approach that, but the butts....
The lines will be still wide compared to OEM by the 15ish mm.... People would not be able to order things then as a drop in, which is kinda the whole point of this exerciser..

Then thinking out loud..... what is optimum and am I all in or not? Yeow, sounds like a 4th line to come.
My Spielger guy just left for vacation, so I'll be sitting on this for another week....

[mello dude]

And just for grins...
Had a wild hair and decided since my caliper are chrome, get metalic red banjos.....


More updating in about a week or so...

[old2soon]

          Are the I/S brake lines the same/similar?    Too early fer a price point guesstimate?  That metallic red banjo looks Very Trick!    LOOKING Good!  RIDE SAFE.

[Valkorado]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

[mello dude]

         Are the I/S brake lines the same/similar?    Too early fer a price point guesstimate?  That metallic red banjo looks Very Trick!    LOOKING Good!   RIDE SAFE.

I dont know about the I/S lines, maybe someone could jump in and let us know what the difference (if any) is.... Thanks for making the point on that...   -
Looking at the fische, I dont see any.. Please chime in if you know different..  

Prices are not fixed yet.. but the rear loop will be cheapish... Around $75..

Fronts are TBD for the moment, but think about it, its an engineered design....
- as a BTW, standard is plain clear line, kinda silverish, with aluminum ends.
 >> any color, and you can pick about anything you want, although that costs a bit more..
I'm trying to work out a deal with Spiegler, since I expect that we will want more than just one. (mine)

[mello dude]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

Agree with that, I have added SS lines to several bikes, and its always an eye opener about the improvement.

[WintrSol]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

Agree with that, I have added SS lines to several bikes, and its always an eye opener about the improvement.

SS is the way to go - I added one to my '70 CB450, and all those complaints about weak front brake went away.

Getting a good fit for the rear line is a challenge; I installed Galfer lines, and it took some shade tree engineering to get it all in there. This one looks quite a bit nicer for install. They used a bit of line between the fittings, rather than try to use the OEM hard line, on the front; not as clean looking, but it works. When this is settled out, I highly recommend the new kit as a replacement for the old squishy lines, which should have been replaced 10 years ago, anyway.

[98valk]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

[Valkorado]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

Don't want to hijack mello's thread.   But you asked...  Got both front lines and rear line on eBay,  ship from jolly old England.   Note Euro model #s listed.  Don't worry they do fit,  but you may want to contact Goodridge or if see if Spiegler can do your custom length.

These
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Goodridge+glow+Honda+valkyrie&_sacat=0

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m4084.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XGoodridge+brake+lines.TRS0&_nkw=Goodridge+brake+lines+honda+valkyrie

I also have the clutch line,  just need to haven't installed.

[mello dude]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

Cant see how you can say 2 line increases stopping power or 3 reduces... etc.  Pressure is pressure and it will be the same thru out the lines.... Maybe you have a sticky piston or ?

You can get any length lines built by Speigler.  Their standard kit for the Valk is a 2 line. (I believe)
Typically the best way to figure it out is to, grab some plastic tube from Lowes and route it the way you want and then figure the length.

[mello dude]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

Don't want to hijack mello's thread.   But you asked...  Got both front lines and rear line on eBay,  ship from jolly old England.   Note Euro model #s listed.  Don't worry they do fit,  but you may want to contact Goodridge or if see if Spiegler can do your custom length.

These
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Goodridge+glow+Honda+valkyrie&_sacat=0

I also have the clutch line,  just need to haven't installed.

On the stuff, I'm doing, the pricing will run about double the Goodridge and a little bit spendy, kinda conserned if people will balk.... . so I'm kinda wondering if I am working too hard.  My ride is semi- custom and blingy so I dont mind the bucks on the thing... How it looks is a strong consideration. But how many here will want to go on this Spiegler stuff? (I am not asking for orders.)

Also with off the shelf lines, as someone mentioned, there's an element of backyard engineering to get it together, and I didnt want to deal with that.

But if your bike is just a rider and just considering lines at the best price, yeah, the Goodridge look pretty good.

Waht is your feedback guys?  - Thanks
---------------------------

--I may as well add > I dont work for Spiegler and am not paid by them... They are just the local guys I have used on my bike projects....  

[98valk]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

Cant see how you can say 2 line increases stopping power or 3 reduces... etc.  Pressure is pressure and it will be the same thru out the lines.... Maybe you have a sticky piston or ?

You can get any length lines built by Speigler.  Their standard kit for the Valk is a 2 line. (I believe)
Typically the best way to figure it out is to, grab some plastic tube from Lowes and route it the way you want and then figure the length.

I have custom SS lines from Viking when they were active, look like OEM, but longer for the deuce risers.  The OEM right side has a shorter hose, less restriction due to the straight run so caliper sees pressure sooner and a little more pressure. the right side has to make a 90 degree turn at the tee fitting before it goes to the left side via a longer hose. 62k miles and I've seen increased wear of right pads vs left pads both times.  All of the top road racer bikes use two direct hoses to the front calipers. much written on it.

[ridingron]

  The assembled Spiegler Line with the OEM center pipe is too long by about 15mm.. (Sh!t)   

What is 15mm equal in inches? .600",  less than 5/8". Can the hard line be manipulated to take up the 15mm?

Does Spiegler sell the hard lines in other applications? Ask them to make a hard line for the kit. It'll add another $5-$10?

[mello dude]

Those look nice!

I had BigBF install some Goodridge stainless lines on Ruby when he was up last year.   Perhaps THE best upgrade I've ever done!  The Silver Bullet's OEM lines feel downright squishy in comparison.

the two-line set up? That's what I want but I need custom length due to taller risers.  OEM setup causes the right side pads to wear faster than the left indicating reduced braking performance. Two lines will increase stopping power.

Cant see how you can say 2 line increases stopping power or 3 reduces... etc.  Pressure is pressure and it will be the same thru out the lines.... Maybe you have a sticky piston or ?

You can get any length lines built by Speigler.  Their standard kit for the Valk is a 2 line. (I believe)
Typically the best way to figure it out is to, grab some plastic tube from Lowes and route it the way you want and then figure the length.

I have custom SS lines from Viking when they were active, look like OEM, but longer for the deuce risers.  The OEM right side has a shorter hose, less restriction due to the straight run so caliper sees pressure sooner and a little more pressure. the right side has to make a 90 degree turn at the tee fitting before it goes to the left side via a longer hose. 62k miles and I've seen increased wear of right pads vs left pads both times.  All of the top road racer bikes use two direct hoses to the front calipers. much written on it.

I'm really interested in this topic but a favor please? Would it be ok, to start a new thread on this? I prefer to keep this thread about the new lines development.... I'll start the new topic for discussion stuff.

link for new thread.......... http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,107665.msg1078603.html#msg1078603

Cool?  

[mello dude]

  The assembled Spiegler Line with the OEM center pipe is too long by about 15mm.. (Sh!t)   

Does Spiegler sell the hard lines in other applications? Ask them to make a hard line for the kit. It'll add another $5-$10?

My Spiegler guy is out for a week, so for the moment, I'm gonna wait till he gets back from vacation and then visit to see waht the options are... 

[mello dude]

 The assembled Spiegler Line with the OEM center pipe is too long by about 15mm.. (Sh!t)  

What is 15mm equal in inches? .600",  less than 5/8". Can the hard line be manipulated to take up the 15mm?

Well.... Whao! ......... but going on... the phrase is still good...
THEN A BOLT OF LIGHNING HITS, I COULD TRY TO MOD THE HARD LINE!

Duh!!!  

[mello dude]

Ridingon got me  ---- I wasnt thinking... so jumped out to Harbor Freight and bought these line bending pliers... $10...



Working it....



More working it..

[mello dude]

Here's the first one for try out.... not sure if I like the tighter bend.. 

[mello dude]

Holy crap, Just a bit off center, but I nailed it on the first try! 


Fishing in a bucket?

[mello dude]

Ok, where I am at... if this was just me, I think I would call it all good and wrap it up.
But the intent of this was..... since several members were saying that they wanted to be able to order my developed design, so the options kinda look like...
- Guys with the mechanical skill could order the setup as is, with the understanding you gotta bend your own middle brake pipe...
- I am not going to be the guy to do any bending thing...
- See what Spiegler comes up with.... maybe that will be the solution.
- It will be a week before my guy comes back from Vacation so mbe, for the moment just leave it open for discussion.

- I am going to do a test fit for the rear this week, and see if I need to adjust the length or anything.

Cheers  -    

[mello dude]

Another just for phun photo...

The chrome caliper with the red banjo...

[gordonv]

So what is wrong with the center rigid line? I know the size is wrong, but is it a stock line or custom made for you? Why not just get it the right size if it's custom?

Not that I have the right tools, but I did have a cheap hard line "press" to make my own flared ends, could you not just cut 7-8 mm off each end, and re crimp/flare them?

[mello dude]

So what is wrong with the center rigid line? I know the size is wrong, but is it a stock line or custom made for you? Why not just get it the right size if it's custom?

Not that I have the right tools, but I did have a cheap hard line "press" to make my own flared ends, could you not just cut 7-8 mm off each end, and re crimp/flare them?

The center hard line is the OEM product... So the original idea was to use that for the rest of the lines.
My orginal fix it thought was as you mentioned just cut the ends of each side and refllare it to fit. But the threaded fitting part would not get out of the way enough to get a die set over the new end. So I gave up on that idea and went to the take up the distance by tightening the bends idea.

So still to reiterate... .If this was just for me, I'm done.. but the thing here as a few members asked me to do is get it all worked out so they could call up Spiegler and order the Valkrie club design.. As mentioned the idea is to use the stock mounting system and bolt up together just like OEM.

Also as mentioned if your just after function and dont care about the bling factor, there are other products that will do the job, but will not be a defacto bolt on drop in.
(Spiegler has 2 line and 3 line kits already, and from a previous link, you could order the Goodridge.)

So it come to this stuff..... I'm still kinda wondering if I'm over stressing on this and working on a white elephant..??..    

[mello dude]

Looking into other vendors for the center piece........Just a bit of some "what if" questions .
Duh!

[98valk]

Looking into other vendors for the center piece........
Duh!

the viking lines I have, only has the one tee. from there one line to each caliper.

[mello dude]

Looking into other vendors for the center piece........
Duh!

the viking lines I have, only has the one tee. from there one line to each caliper.

Sure,  I could get the existing kit and be done with it. So can you....

But your not getting the whole point of this stuff, which is to copy the OEM mounting/routing exactly. And others can buy the same drop in kit.  

[98valk]

Looking into other vendors for the center piece........
Duh!

the viking lines I have, only has the one tee. from there one line to each caliper.

Sure,  I could get the existing kit and be done with it. So can you....

But your not getting the whole point of this stuff, which is to copy the OEM mounting/routing exactly. And others can buy the same drop in kit.  

why is it so important to copy exactly? just asking, since its more expensive and nothing is gained.

have u seen the setups, where one line goes to the right caliper and from there a line goes to the other caliper riding on the back of the fender? 

[Bagger John - #3785]

I looked at the 'fiche for a 2001 I/S this morning while a few posts into the thread.

Edit

All Two of three of the rear brake lines are still listed as being available, though I would like to replace the two rubber lines with stainless on both of my Valks. This is what I'm doing up front vis clutch and brake lines.

What the heck is it with Honda always discontinuing brake lines and similar parts with their bikes? Went through the same thing with my '83 Aspencades when I had them. 

[mello dude]

I looked at the 'fiche for a 2001 I/S this morning while a few posts into the thread.

Edit

All Two of three of the rear brake lines are still listed as being available, though I would like to replace the two rubber lines with stainless on both of my Valks. This is what I'm doing up front vis clutch and brake lines.

What the heck is it with Honda always discontinuing brake lines and similar parts with their bikes? Went through the same thing with my '83 Aspencades when I had them.  

Are you looking to go one line SS for the rear? Just curious......


I am trying to keep the OEM line route, so I found the thing kinda loops around a bit difficult so thats why I bought the 2 available OEM lines.


You will be able to call up Spiegler to order the rear to mate up to the rear lines...... per my pics above... ---- About the 3rd post...

--------------------

And a quick note ---- the OEM replacement pipe is short for wahtever reason.... Kinda annoying...

Part #8

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/43314-MZ0-000?ref=04fd0070c2ecdd90f0b681254a62a96f65a2e574





http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,107753.0.html

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe it's because you are working on it, but it looks like your rubber boot is not on the swing arm correctly.

[mello dude]

Posting the rear brake line assembly, went together fine. --
That is.... new OEM line to the master cylinder to the front of the swing arm... New OEM brake pipe. (but its 10mm short) and then new dongle line to the rear caliper from Spiegler.





Since the new OEM pipe is 10mm short, I had to cut the clamp for the rear dongle line and add a piece of rubber.. .


And for grins, linking this to the 10mm short thread
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,107753.0.html