If I were to buy a new gun....

[NewValker]

I’ve been carrying a Bodyguard in a “sticky” holster in my pocket for 2-3 years.
I like it there, it’s comfortable and doesn’t print. No one has ever indicated they saw it at work, riding, even “no gun” zones. Which are unenforceable here in Mass.
That said, I’m thinking I want to move to a 9. I have a Browning Hi Power, but not easy to conceal during summer.

Any suggestions or recommendations for a small 9?  I just want it for CCW, not a range gun.
Would really like to carry in pocket, but realize that might not work.
Like to keep it under $500.

Thanks,
Craig

[Bighead]

 Ot many 9’s will fit unnoticed in your pocket. I myself carry a Kimber micro 9 in an OWB holster and it has never been noticed or at least acknowledged. I also have an IWB holsterbut prefer the OWB.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I still carry my first gen Shield as my primary Summer weapon, but it isn't a good pocket gun. It does conceal beautifully, though, due to it's thin width. It's similar in size to a Glock 43, Options in small carry guns are definitely limited, thanks to our attorney general's office.

Hit your local store and ask. If you don't have a good local person, come to Mendon and see Anthony at AC Arms. He is a straight shooter (pun intended) and will help you find what would work best for you.

If your Bodyguard is comfortable and doesn't print in your holster, what's the reason for change? Concerned that .380 isn't enough? Looking for more capacity? Just have new gun mania? (I understand completely)

[Oldfishguy]

Ruger LC9

[NewValker]

Thanks guys, I got a store 1 town over, going there tomorrow, always buy there. Was looking for opinions from the guys here, a wealth of info on our site.
I’m looking to move up for more stopping power and buy before that dumb biotch bans more guns.
And yes, time for a new one!
Thanks, Craig

[Jess from VA]

Craig, IMHO the line of Kahr single stacks is the Cadillac of concealed, accurate, reliable, light carry.

I know MA puts ridiculous testing requirements on firearms sellers (drop tests from space and so forth).  But assuming you can buy Kahrs, you should look at them.

First they have several lines (at price points), and I like the top line with match grade polygonal rifling barrels which provide amazing accuracy in small pistols if you do your part (like out shooting my Hi Powers).  But their cheaper line with conventional rifling are also fine pistols.

Their patented version action and lockup makes them all less than one inch wide (.9").  I like how they say no gun is safe until fired at least 200 times, but I never had one failure of any kind, with any ammo, ever, right from the start.  Their triggers do not have the Glock lever on them, and are designed to be double action revolver-like, long smooth pulls, but no stacking (which is increased force required right before ignition throwing off aim).  Like many DAO striker fire guns, they have internal safeties, but no external safety, just slide and mag releases.

I like all black guns for concealment, not half black and half stainless.  They come both ways with polymer frames.  

I have the P9 with the 3.5"bbl.  It can go in a baggy pocket (but it's close to too big)  I had the all metal K9 and really liked it, but when the P9 with polymer frame came out, I traded to it for weight reduction.  The 9mm is a bit snappy in them, but nothing you can't live with.  This P9 is MA compliant KP9193N.  https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/pistols/kahr-p9-w-night-sights-external-safety-and-lci.asp

Or you go with the shorter PM9 (3.1") (the P9 extra half inch of bbl is the easiest part of the gun to hide) https://www.massfirearmsshop.com/kahr-pm9-p-1887.html?manufacturers_id=778
MA compliant:  https://www.kahr.com/kahr-pm9193-9mm/

They cost more than average, and worth it.  They can be found used (and not abused).

The cheaper lines are the same guns without the match barrels.

P9 (3.5", 15 ozs, 7+1 mag)


PM9 (3.1", 14 ozs, 6+1 mag)


https://www.kahr.com/

If you want 10+1, and can live with 1" width, and a few more ounces, take a look at the new Sig Nitron P365 (and maybe $200 cheaper) (3.1"bbl, 17.8 oz, external safety).  https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p365-nitron-micro-compact.html

The P365 became MA Compliant six months ago in model 365-9-BXR3-MS-MA.



A decent, light, IWB holster is really more comfortable than pocket carry (and it's nearly impossible to shoot your balls off that way), but for guys with a belly (like me), you often need a tad bigger pants waist, which is a PITA (instead of your old reliable pants).

Here's the one for my Kahr P9.  https://www.miltsparks.com/products-summer-special-2.php






 
  

[9Ball]

HK VP9...or VP9SK.

[SCain]

I have been wanting the Glock 43X or G48, both are single stack 9mm with 10 rnd mags, saw them both at the last gun show and I really liked them for CCW, I liked the way they fit in my hand. The Sig P365 has also received some great reviews.
I currently carry a a S&W Shield 9, I like it but thinking of trading it in for one of the Glocks.

[Chrisj CMA]

I carry this almost every day. Rarely I still stick my air weight.38+P in a pocket





It’s a 4” 686 S&W .357

[Jess from VA]

That is really commitment brother.   

I know if I needed a gun to defend myself out and about, THAT'S one I'd really like (and prefer) to have.  But I don't have the commitment to carry something so big and heavy. 

[Chrisj CMA]

That is really commitment brother.   

I know if I needed a gun to defend myself out and about, THAT'S one I'd really like (and prefer) to have.  But I don't have the commitment to carry something so big and heavy. 

It is big and heavy but I believe  carry should be felt. It reminds me every few minutes it’s there. Plus I have fired hundreds of rounds single action and double action with this gun. It’s so accurate at 15-25 yards that as long as I can catch my breath I could shoot one leg off a fly no problem 

[DirtyDan]

That is really commitment brother.   

I know if I needed a gun to defend myself out and about, THAT'S one I'd really like (and prefer) to have.  But I don't have the commitment to carry something so big and heavy. 

Jess......

The 686 4 inch barrel....... big and heavy ?

Dan

[Chrisj CMA]

That is really commitment brother.   

I know if I needed a gun to defend myself out and about, THAT'S one I'd really like (and prefer) to have.  But I don't have the commitment to carry something so big and heavy. 

Jess......

The 686 4 inch barrel....... big and heavy ?

Dan

Yes Dan you and I have real big and heavy. But compared to a pocket gun the 686 is substantially heavier. I don’t want to carry a gun so small that if I shoot someone and they find out about it, they will be mad at me. 

[Chrisj CMA]

New Valker,  I have been wrestling with the decision to post this. So I have to comment on your original post. I understand a pocket pistol. When What you need to wear dictates a tiny gun, well it’s better than nothing I usually say to myself. Pocket carry is barely better than nothing. Since you already have a tiny one. Why not get a real weapon. Get a good belt and holster whichever configuration seems best to you.

Also. Why do we carry?  For me it’s to protect the lives of my family and me primarily and others as the situation may unfold. A good gun is what I want. Good guns aren’t cheap and cheap guns aren’t good.

If your gun you have can’t hit the ten ring at 25 yards then it’s a gut buster. I get that. Many people taking cover and preparing to defend themselves wished they had a real gun that they were more confident in taking that one shot

[Jess from VA]

So I'll play the devil's advocate here to Jeff's post.

Sure we should carry handguns large and accurate enough to be effective.  But when we have a lifetime experience of never actually using a gun in self defense (I've showed one twice, but didn't need to point or shoot it) we have the situation (mine) where we will carry something small and light and comfortable enough to carry, or we don't carry at all.

If I knowingly go in harm's way (I don't), I will carry an M4 AR with Eotech optic, my class III bulletproof vest, my load bearing vest with 8 X 30 round mags, and a Sig P220 .45 with 7 mags, and a light, and a tourniquet.

Otherwise, I don't carry pure mouse guns (.22s, .25s, .32s, or 380s), I carry a mid size 9 I can still get in a pocket (or a Jframe revolver).  

Small handguns are much better than no guns.  They certainly are not as good as full size handguns.

So goes the compromise.

Do you carry $250 deductible on your truck, or $1000?

Is your health insurance a Cadillac or a Chevy?

Is your bike helmet a full face $850 job, or a $125 half?

Do your socks have holes, or do you immediately throw those out?    ( I don't darn them, but I don't throw them out until the holes become large) (If I end up in the hospital, I don't care if they laugh at my underwear; if they're laughing, at least they're happy in their work.)  

[NewValker]

New Valker,  I have been wrestling with the decision to post this. So I have to comment on your original post. I understand a pocket pistol. When What you need to wear dictates a tiny gun, well it’s better than nothing I usually say to myself. Pocket carry is barely better than nothing. Since you already have a tiny one. Why not get a real weapon. Get a good belt and holster whichever configuration seems best to you.

Also. Why do we carry?  For me it’s to protect the lives of my family and me primarily and others as the situation may unfold. A good gun is what I want. Good guns aren’t cheap and cheap guns aren’t good.

If your gun you have can’t hit the ten ring at 25 yards then it’s a gut buster. I get that. Many people taking cover and preparing to defend themselves wished they had a real gun that they were more confident in taking that one shot

Jeff, I’m glad you posted, let me explain my thinking.
I work for the DPW in my town. We are assigned our job at 7am daily. On any given day I could be driving a dump truck, operating a backhoe or loader, street sweeper, or a bucket truck cutting trees. Those jobs I could carry a “real” weapon. But, I also could be in a trench up to my butt in mud laying drainage pipe, wearing chest waders cutting a beaver dam apart, or moving furniture in one of our schools. I wouldn’t be comfortable with any gun anywhere but my pocket in these places.
Also, after my first hip replacement, I found a belt was painful on the scar tissue and went with suspenders. I’m not a fashion statement anyhow, so comfy wins out. I’ve carried my Browning in a shoulder holster in the winter, but another consideration is our Director is a pussy hat knitting, Pocahontas loving, 2A hating lib. He has tried banning us from carrying and if he ever saw a “real” gun he’d crap his pants. And since I’m 3 years from retiring I choose not to fight that fight.
I also carry to protect myself, loved ones, and for the unseen situation.
10 ring at 25 yards with a 380? Maybe. I practice any chance I can. Under stress? Probably not. I’ve never had any formal training on that. However I believe a majority of thug shooters are cowards and would piss themselves if someone returned fire. I never want to be making that decision, but if I had to I’d want to put myself in a sniper position, we all know you’ll lose vs. a AR straight up.
And I do know and understand the difference between quality vs. cheap guns. What I meant, and didn’t really put out there very well, was I want a gun that might see 50-100 rounds (after break in) a year, as compared to an every week at the range gun throwing hundreds of rounds a month.
Well, that’s my thinking & reasoning, right or wrong to anyone else, it works for me for now.

As I said Jeff, I am glad you posted this, I value your opinion on this subject.

Jess, thanks for the info, good reading. I have only had to reach for my Browning once, doing an emergency delivery in Boston at 3 am, (different job) never saw 2 guys disappear so fast!

Thanks to all that answered to.

Update...on my way to the gun store this morning with my 5-C notes, my wife calls me, seems her car died.  Got to store and he was closed for vacation this week...huh, that’s 2 signs that I’m not getting a gun today....
Garage bill for her car was $463.

Everything happens for a reason I say....
More time to research I guess.
Thanks again all,
Craig

[The emperor has no clothes]

Craig, clearly "Pocahantas" has been keeping up with your postings on the forum. She must have had one of her campaign flunkies sabotage your wife's car in order to thwart your purchase.  I don't really have any good advice on a new "tool" purchase. I also like small pocket carry, thus I have a measly Ruger LCP. I think if I had something bigger I likely would end up leaving in my saddle bag. So, it works for me. I did get an ankle holster recently and I like it alright.
(I hope Warren's henchmen didn't do too much damage to her car) 

[NewValker]

Thanks Rob, I needed a good laugh!
Craig

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey Craig. That makes a lot of sense. I think having your job and circumstances I would leave my carry piece in my car and pick it back up after my shift. Thanks for info

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I carry a P226 or P239 from fall, through winter, and into spring. Summertime, with light clothing, its my Shield or my 642 S+W. Why? Well, it isn't because I'd rather shoot those. It's 100% concealability. I imagine that Florida isn't nearly the nanny state MA is. Here, you don't want to reach for something at Home Depot and accidentally show your weapon. It's very likely that someone will feel threatened and call the police. They will respond, because someone said gun and threatened, and your afternoon will turn to $hit. Thankfully, even when you know you're printing, most people won't even notice. But, we have a very large anti-gun crowd, and they don't even acknowledge that you have a legal right to carry. If they see a gun on anyone other than an officer in uniform, they assume you're about to shoot up the joint. Thanks, media.
If I try to carry one of my larger weapons on a humid 90 degree day, I'm going to be wearing a heavier shirt than I want to, to lessen my chances of printing. Lighter shirts always seem to catch and hang on the top of the weapon, despite the myriad of holsters I've acquired for every handgun I own. My Shield, while not an expensive weapon, is incredibly reliable. I polished the feed ramp during the initial breakdown clean/lube, and I've had no failures to feed in hundreds of rounds of multiple brands and types. It, in nearly all of the holsters I have, pulls nice and close to my body.
If your vehicle ever got stolen here with a loaded firearm in it, your going to be in a world of crap when you report it. Any loaded firearm in a vehicle must be under your direct control. Even a holster mounted under your dash isn't considered direct control, according to several firearm instructors I've asked. Currently, the country's gun owners are feeling the oppression that we here in Massachusetts are used to.

[gordonv]

From time-to-time I watch some of those youtube videos about real life shootings. The guys gives some commentary. You see what happens when people try to draw from pockets/purses/etc, and it's not pretty.

You are right on the perps, once someone starts shooting back, see how quickly most run.

Gives you some thoughts.

[DirtyDan]

From time-to-time I watch some of those youtube videos about real life shootings. The guys gives some commentary. You see what happens when people try to draw from pockets/purses/etc, and it's not pretty.

You are right on the perps, once someone starts shooting back, see how quickly most run.

Gives you some thoughts.

A little birdie told me once don’t bother with the quick draw just pull it out ahead of time

The way I’ve heard it after the first round the human stampede tends to do the most damage

Dan

[NewValker]

Ken, Gordon, & Dan, you’re all right. In the last few years I know that I’ve become way more aware of what’s going on in my surroundings, so that I’m not surprised if something happens. There is no quick draw from a pocket.
And Ken has it exactly right, that’s the way it is in most of Massachusetts. And the weapon has to be under your control, not in a console, under a seat, or locked up in a car. Sad...can’t wait to retire and move.
Craig

[Jess from VA]

I was going to say check out the baby Glocks (G43) while you're at it.

Then I found this:

Glocks can be sold only to law enforcement officers in Massachusetts, because consumer sales are banned under state law.  All Glocks are legal in Mass (with the exception of most full auto Glock 18s).  If you can find it for sale in the state, you can buy it and own it.  So don't confuse "legal" with "compliant".  Glocks made after 1998 are not Mass compliant and therefore cannot be transferred by a Massachusetts dealer.

I suppose going down to the local Police Dept and asking them to buy one for you is a poor idea (straw purchase).   

Legal, but not compliant..... reminds me of my ex wife.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I was going to say check out the baby Glocks (G43) while you're at it.

Then I found this:

Glocks can be sold only to law enforcement officers in Massachusetts, because consumer sales are banned under state law.  All Glocks are legal in Mass (with the exception of most full auto Glock 18s).  If you can find it for sale in the state, you can buy it and own it.  So don't confuse "legal" with "compliant".  Glocks made after 1998 are not Mass compliant and therefore cannot be transferred by a Massachusetts dealer.

I suppose going down to the local Police Dept and asking them to buy one for you is a poor idea (straw purchase).   

Legal, but not compliant..... reminds me of my ex wife.

Just one of the many convoluted firearms laws we have here. You can buy a Glock, but a dealer can't sell you a Glock. Due to this, used Glock pistols are priced well above their actual value. Just another law with no merit. I can buy and own a Glock in MA, so obviously it has nothing to do with the safety of the weapon. Dealers can't sell it to the public, though, because Glock won't bow to the AG's office. So, how does this law make me safer? Once again, it doesn't.

[Jess from VA]

This seems like a similar result as from the CA micro-stamping law (from a different methodology).

In the name of safety, the (law abiding) public is prohibited from buying the most recent, best technology firearms available.  But the cops aren't, and police departments generally try to get the best and safest weapons their budgets can afford (you know, like the rest of us). 

[NewValker]

Just heard the Boston PD Commissioner’s interview about guns and murder in his city.
He said they have confiscated over 4,400 illegal guns so far this year.
Yeah, we need more laws....
Craig

[lakehunter]

Perhaps another option, modern ammunition has provided the .380 with a greatly enhanced effectiveness compared to traditional selections. FMJ and hollow point ammo in .380 are usually considered at the lower limit of effectiveness or for many folks just too light to depend on. With new ammo like the ARX Inceptor our little Bodyguard .380 can now equal a standard 115 or 125 grain 9mm in stopping power from a short barrel. The .380 testing reveals acceptable 12 to 16 inch penetration with impressive wound channels and the ability to penetrate layered clothing easily, something a 9mm hollow point will not do in many cases. My preferred carry piece is a custom 1911 with 3 inch barrel in .45, that will stop a bad guy with some reliability but will also over penetrate and often pass through things that might endanger others, the new ARX rounds will pass through thin things when needed but disintegrate on most items that you might not want to go through. I have for some time now stayed with the comfortable little Bodyguard .380 and the ARX ammo and am confident in it if needed, check it out and you might not need a 500.00 pistol, just a 35.00 box of ammo. Happy Hunting !   

[bg]

my friend is an officer and carries a single stack 9MM for off duty....

[Mr Whiskey]

Any suggestions or recommendations for a small 9?

LC9S Pro (Pro 'cause we don't like having to train around an external safety.) 7+1, fits easily in pocket, & I can get all 3 fingers on it with the mag extension. This is an outstanding little shooter! Hittin' 4" steels at 35 yards with factory 3 dot sights, & if you were to ever have any trouble out of it Ruger's customer service is second to none.
Cheap, effective, and easy to conceal. Worth a look IMHO.
Only mod I plan to make is XS Big Dot night sights.
Runnin' Federal HST 147 standard pressure, & I trust it with Sugar's life!
(She shoots it better than I do!)
Best of on your search Bro!

[NewValker]

Thanks all!
Going to look up that ammo Lakehunter.
Hey Whiskey! My buddy has one of them & offered it up for a week, see how I like it. Guess I’ll take him up on that offer.
Craig

[Gavin_Sons]

Springfield XD line 

[henry 008]

Springfield XD line 

i love my XDS 3.3, its my favorite carry gun. 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

It's pretty sad here in Massachusetts. The Springfield Armory was in Springfield, MA, and operated for almost 200 years as one of the largest manufacturers of firearms.

Springfield pistols were not on the "MA approved roster" until last year or the year before. I would likely be more familiar with them if I had been able to buy one. I may eventually buy one, but that would require a safe update, and then I'd end up going down that rabbit hole of trying to fill the new-found space. Not that I'm against that; I just plain can't afford it.

[flsix]

The SIG P365 is great in an IWB holster. If you have to have a manual safety they just came out with that model too.

[Jess from VA]

It's pretty sad here in Massachusetts. The Springfield Armory was in Springfield, MA, and operated for almost 200 years as one of the largest manufacturers of firearms.

Springfield pistols were not on the "MA approved roster" until last year or the year before. I would likely be more familiar with them if I had been able to buy one. I may eventually buy one, but that would require a safe update, and then I'd end up going down that rabbit hole of trying to fill the new-found space. Not that I'm against that; I just plain can't afford it.

You know that the 200+yo Springfield Armory (MA) was a National US Armory (along with Harper's Ferry and Rock Island Arsenal), which was closed in 1968 (Production: 1795–1968), and that the current Springfield Armory Inc. of Geneseo IL (circa 1974) are unrelated?  They were apparently able to take up the name with no application or dispute, and have taken pride in continuing production of 1911 pistols and M1A rifles.  Though they have production facilities in Croatia and Brazil, and imported many Italian handguns from Tangfoglio.

Smith and Wesson is located in Springfield MA.  Colt's Manufacturing LLC is in Hartford CT  

Why some of our finest gun makers are situated in these states (and the NRA incorporated in NY) is a good question.

[cookiedough]

It's pretty sad here in Massachusetts. The Springfield Armory was in Springfield, MA, and operated for almost 200 years as one of the largest manufacturers of firearms.

Springfield pistols were not on the "MA approved roster" until last year or the year before. I would likely be more familiar with them if I had been able to buy one. I may eventually buy one, but that would require a safe update, and then I'd end up going down that rabbit hole of trying to fill the new-found space. Not that I'm against that; I just plain can't afford it.

You know that the 200+yo Springfield Armory (MA) was a National US Armory (along with Harper's Ferry and Rock Island Arsenal), which was closed in 1968 (Production: 1795–1968), and that the current Springfield Armory Inc. of Geneseo IL (circa 1974) are unrelated?  They were apparently able to take up the name with no application or dispute, and have taken pride in continuing production of 1911 pistols and M1A rifles.  Though they have production facilities in Croatia and Brazil, and imported many Italian handguns from Tangfoglio.

Smith and Wesson is located in Springfield MA.  Colt's Manufacturing LLC is in Hartford CT  

Why some of our finest gun makers are situated in these states (and the NRA incorporated in NY) is a good question.

been to that Rock Island Arsenal just to admire all the old time guns/weapons used in our rich US history.  If into old time weapons/guns,  is pretty neat place to visit if in the area open to the public free of charge. 

Did you buy a small 9mm yet?  So many good ones out there I would see if you can try 3-5 out and get a feel shooting them to see how they feel, etc.    Something is better than nothing the ONE time you may need it right!   

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

You know that the 200+yo Springfield Armory (MA) was a National US Armory (along with Harper's Ferry and Rock Island Arsenal), which was closed in 1968 (Production: 1795–1968), and that the current Springfield Armory Inc. of Geneseo IL (circa 1974) are unrelated?  They were apparently able to take up the name with no application or dispute, and have taken pride in continuing production of 1911 pistols and M1A rifles.  Though they have production facilities in Croatia and Brazil, and imported many Italian handguns from Tangfoglio.

Smith and Wesson is located in Springfield MA.  Colt's Manufacturing LLC is in Hartford CT  

Why some of our finest gun makers are situated in these states (and the NRA incorporated in NY) is a good question.

Oh, I know they are not related to the actual armory in Springfield, MA. I was more making a point that it felt like a slap in the face that we couldn't buy pistols from the namesake of one of our proud historical places.

Massachusetts made it mandatory that pistols have certain features, and made it up to the manufacturer to submit firearms for testing (as well as jump through a million legal hoops). For many years, Springfield just said they had had enough and didn't wish to deal with the MA AG's office anymore (who would?). I guess they figured out that even though this is probably always going to be a left leaning stronghold, there are a lot of dissidents here.

[Roadman]

 Only HK VP9SK is going to make you happy. I have owned most and tried them all. Best concealed 9 0n the market. bar none.

[Pappy!]

I do a tremendous amount of shooting. Purchase ammo a thousand rounds at a time. I like quality and reliability.
Lakehunter is correct about the advancements in personal defense .380 ammo. Good PD .380 ammo puts that round right in there for personal defense these days. 
I have a lot to choose from in carry pistols. My CZ75D compact is probably my favorite because of the amazing hand fitment and ergonomics. The CZ P01 is another good one.
On occasion I also carry one of my .380s. That gun is a Beretta 84. Also known as the Cheetah or 84FS in nickel plate. It is a medium frame double stack 13 round capacity .380 with typical Beretta reliability and ergonomics. Buttery smooth action and trigger, a classic no nonsense blow-back design and it is extremely accurate,  heavy enough to absorb recoil of any of the .380 rounds yet light enough to carry for a long time on your side or wherever.
If you like the HK you would do well to at least check out the CZ line. Very few guns will fit a good sized hand like that one will.