Crap! Electrical gremlins

[Hook#3287]

 

Here's the short story.  99 I/S, 60(something)K miles.

New Alt, fully charged battery, all accessories and radio & CB unhooked.

No high beam.  But, high beam blue indicator light comes on.

Alt charges to 14.8, when at 3k rpm and light switch is on high beam.  (no headlights)

Switch on light switch to low beams, lights come on, and alt goes to 12.2  to 12.7 and the rpms
drop slightly.

I'm guessing high beam headlight relay. (I had to get my magnifying glass out to read the wiring diagram. )

Wondering if the standard uses the same one.

Off to Partzilla.

[Hook#3287]

Well, it appears the I/S uses 4 of the same relays and that's the one Honda calls for, as the Starter relay, in the Standard.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/38501-GN2-014?ref=c10b4b684d6232e7ff6df3c8bda1e84cf63bab6f

$32.00 

[Hook#3287]

Ruled out the relay, swapped it with the audio one and still same issue.

When no lights on, alt puts out 13.99 to 14 @ 2.5-3K .  Switch lights on, down to 12.3ish.

If both high beams are toast, could that do this?

Man, I hate electrical.

But, I'd hate paying someone to work on my bikes, more.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I hate electrical issues also Bill. The only thing I can think of is a short in the high beam line somewhere.

[Jess from VA]

What about corrosion (resistance) at the bulb plug boots?

I have one side that keeps going out on my IS, but when I reach in and push on the back of the plug boot hard it comes back on.  I know I should pull everything out and clean it, but I hate that job. 

Or lay off the brights.  With 80/100 H4 bulbs, I never use mine.   

[gordonv]

Easy stuff first, after the relay, I would try another head light bulb.



I ended up with a headlight out once, on my first Valk, riding home from Vegas through the passes.

[Jersey]

Based on what you're saying, may I suggest UNPLUG both headlights and see if the same action occurs (drop in voltage and RPM).  This will test if the headlight bulbs or plugs are the issue.

Just to verify, you're running OEM bulbs in the headlights?

[da prez]

Corrosion , be it in a plug or wire ground causes a high resistance. My first stab would be to unplug the connections and check for corrosion. Silicone dia-electric the connections after making sure they are tight. Remove the grounds and battery connections , clean and re-install using dia-electric grease.
  A process of elimination (already suggested) would be next. It will probably be a head slapper when found. Please let us know.

                                               da prez

[Hook#3287]

Thanks for all the replies

I might get the chance to work on it tomorrow hopefully.

When I figure it out, I'll make sure to update the thread.

[NewValker]

Hey Bill, can’t help you much with the gremlins, I’d just make it worse!
Just wanted to say hi and remind you that there’s like 10 more valks in your stable to ride! 

Craig

[Oss]

If silverstars swap out a new one

Had both high go out once

[indybobm]

I have 'heard' that sometimes the element in the bulb breaks and can short out against the base of the bulb somehow. Maybe not a direct short but a hi-impedance path to ground which would draw more current..

[old2soon]

        Bill in the fairing right side is a square red 9? pin plug there. That is WHERE my electrical issue resided. The day Ross-da prez-showed up in Missouri to give me a hand we were talking to a LOT of board members all over the U S of A. Now my issue was a no start issue BUT the circuits go thru that plug. rotsaruckderejoe!  RIDE SAFE.

[Paladin528]

Ruled out the relay, swapped it with the audio one and still same issue.

When no lights on, alt puts out 13.99 to 14 @ 2.5-3K .  Switch lights on, down to 12.3ish.

If both high beams are toast, could that do this?

Man, I hate electrical.

But, I'd hate paying someone to work on my bikes, more.

When you say "No lights on" do you mean high beams?
When the bike is running the lights are on. if that is your fist set of numbers this is good.
if the second set of numbers is with the high beams switched on the you have a short somewhere as the increased current draw is bringing the voltage down.
That short will likely reside between the relay and the headlights .

[Hook#3287]

I replaced both headlight bulbs.  Both high beam filaments were broken.

Put it back together. Lights work.

Now, at the battery, I'm showing 12.03 volts with either high or low beams (slightly lower w/high)

I really hate electrical issues.

I walked away for now.

Time to start checking wires, plugs and connections.

I have 'heard' that sometimes the element in the bulb breaks and can short out against the base of the bulb somehow. Maybe not a direct short but a hi-impedance path to ground which would draw more current..

  That didn't seem to be the case.

When you say "No lights on" do you mean high beams?

  Yeah, when switched to High Beams, I had no lights (both filaments were broken) and the alt would show close to 14 volts.
Now with new bulbs, around 12.03.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I replaced both headlight bulbs.  Both high beam filaments were broken.

Put it back together. Lights work.

Now, at the battery, I'm showing 12.03 volts with either high or low beams (slightly lower w/high)

I really hate electrical issues.

I walked away for now.

Time to start checking wires, plugs and connections.

I have 'heard' that sometimes the element in the bulb breaks and can short out against the base of the bulb somehow. Maybe not a direct short but a hi-impedance path to ground which would draw more current..

  That didn't seem to be the case.

When you say "No lights on" do you mean high beams?

  Yeah, when switched to High Beams, I had no lights (both filaments were broken) and the alt would show close to 14 volts.
Now with new bulbs, around 12.03.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but at idle (about 850) my alternator doesn't put out a lot of volts. Have you checked the figures with the rpm up to about 1,500 ?

[pancho]

Just what meathead said Hook. Raise the RPM and see if the voltage goes back up to 14.xx,, if not, suspect the alternator.

[Hook#3287]

New development.

When this all started, I was on a ride with Craig (NewValker) up in Vermont.  Lost all power.  We switched batteries to get her home.

2 yr old battery, so I didn't load test.  I wish I had, to rule it out. 

But 60k on a 20 year old alt? Had to be.

Swapped the OEM original alt for a rebuilt from Ken Heming AND bought a new one from Partzilla.

I put the Ken rebuilt in and from the start, it had a slight whining noise.

Talked with Ken, he said to give it some time.

I did and I lost battery charge on a ride, but managed to jump start and made it home.

Pulled battery and alt, charged battery and put new partzilla alt in.  Showing high 13 at around 2-3k rpm.

Again, I should have checked battery, but didn't.  Ken alt was whining, then grumbling, just before quitting.

I lost start power, again, but luckily, was able to jump start and get her home, again. 

So, I'm thinking I'm a big idiot if, as the common denominator, the battery is the issue.

That's when I noticed the no high beams and different charging voltage.   Swap battery, start checking lights and light relays, change headlight bulbs.

No love.

Ken seems like a stand up guy and said send his back and if it's his fault, he'll fix it.

But, shipping alone is $25.00.

I find a Alternator shop in Northern Ct on Google, Woodstock Rebuilders.

Take the Ken alt to them and drop it off.  What a place.  Guy must have every Alternator and Starter ever made on multiple shelves. 

I even said that to the owner and he goes "Nope, sometimes someone surprises me"

He calls me this afternoon and tells me the rotor is shot and you can't get replacement rotors.

He told me it's nothing I did, by using a dud battery.

Which brings me to the new Partzilla alt.  Is it a dud also?

I'm considering pulling an alt from a different bike to check it, but, you know, that sucks.

I'm pulling the new Partzilla alt and taking it to the rebuilder for testing.

He also sells new alts for $180.00.  Must be the china made ones available on the intermess.

But, it's the only option left, outside of a used one.

I'll probably buy one from the alt shop and send Ken's back for a swap and I don't know about the Partzilla one yet.

I'm still going to go through all the wires, plugs and connections.  It could be a bad ground, right?

Right?

Did I mention how much I hate electrical issues?

Just what meathead said Hook. Raise the RPM and see if the voltage goes back up to 14.xx,, if not, suspect the alternator.

  Yeah, 3K rpm

[The emperor has no clothes]

New development.

When this all started, I was on a ride with Craig.
Did I mention how much I hate electrical issues?

I feel your pain. In retrospect, after hearing the full story, it clearly must be Craig’s fault 

I suppose it’s possible the new one from Partzilla is bad also. But that seems unlikely. Ground issue could surely be a problem. Many have had bad connections on the block. I think MarkT had a post where he changed that ground location to the frame ? I think switching alts with one of your other bikes is a good idea. 

[pancho]

WOW,,, what a mess.    Make sure the 55 amp dog bone fuse and it's connections are still good while checking the wiring.

[old2soon]

       Check out L A Lectrical. RIDE SAFE.

[NewValker]

New development.

When this all started, I was on a ride with Craig.
Did I mention how much I hate electrical issues?

I feel your pain. In retrospect, after hearing the full story, it clearly must be Craig’s fault 

I suppose it’s possible the new one from Partzilla is bad also. But that seems unlikely. Ground issue could surely be a problem. Many have had bad connections on the block. I think MarkT had a post where he changed that ground location to the frame ? I think switching alts with one of your other bikes is a good idea. 

Hey Bill, isn’t that Georgia? The bike that was taken apart and painted, then put back together with wood screws? Maybe the ground was messed with too? Just a thought...

Thanks Meathead, I’m lucky to have friends like you......

Craig

[westsidevalk]

bill,
sorry to hear about your electrical issues. i hope it works out.

[Paladin528]

I would fully expect the voltage to read low when the high beams are on with the bike off or at idle. Somewhere in the vicinity of 12 would be about right.  If the bike is off the voltage will be dropping as well.  The voltage should, however, go back up to around 13.5-14 with some RPM added.
if not then you could still have a bad battery which masks the charging voltage of the alternator.

[Hook#3287]

Just got off the phone with Woodstock Rebuilders and Partzilla.

Woodstock told me the NEW alt had a bad stator.

Partzilla told me to ship it back for a replacement.

So looks like it's all going to work out, just a long trip getting there.

Interesting conversation with the owner of Woodstock.

When I asked him about the quality of the china alts available on the intermess and were his of that quality, he stated there are 1000's of manufacture of alts in china.

He said he buys his from 2 sources and both have been in business since the 1960's and he feels their quality is excellent.

He stated new alts for $180.00.

You can tell the guy knows his stuff.  Whether he's truthful or not remains to be seen, but my gut tells me his is.

Just a FYI.

You can google him if your interested.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just got off the phone with Woodstock Rebuilders and Partzilla.

Woodstock told me the NEW alt had a bad stator.

Partzilla told me to ship it back for a replacement.

So looks like it's all going to work out, just a long trip getting there.

Interesting conversation with the owner of Woodstock.

When I asked him about the quality of the china alts available on the intermess and were his of that quality, he stated there are 1000's of manufacture of alts in china.

He said he buys his from 2 sources and both have been in business since the 1960's and he feels their quality is excellent.

He stated new alts for $180.00.

You can tell the guy knows his stuff.  Whether he's truthful or not remains to be seen, but my gut tells me his is.

Just a FYI.

You can google him if your interested.

Glad you got it figured out Bill. 

[Hook#3287]

Got the new replacement from Partzilla finally installed and she's showing 14.2 at idle.

Beautiful sunny fall day  here in New England and I'm heading out to enjoy it.

[baldo]

Got the new replacement from Partzilla finally installed and she's showing 14.2 at idle.

Beautiful sunny fall day  here in New England and I'm heading out to enjoy it.

Just catching this thread, Bill. What a skullbuster. It sucks when you get bad parts from stock, especially OEM.

This has been a beautiful riding season.....

[Hook#3287]

Got the new replacement from Partzilla finally installed and she's showing 14.2 at idle.

Beautiful sunny fall day  here in New England and I'm heading out to enjoy it.

Just catching this thread, Bill. What a skullbuster. It sucks when you get bad parts from stock, especially OEM.

This has been a beautiful riding season.....

Hey Bob. Yeah, it was a trip for sure.  She was laid up most of the summer, but I was too busy to work on her, so that extended the repair time.

Luckily, I have options and got some riding in.

Excellent late summer, early fall riding weather.

Probably means we'll get slammed this winter.