Suggestions for a nice .45 acp handgun?

[Savago]

Gentlemen

In my journey to learn about handguns & rifles I'm targeting to acquire next month* a .45 acp pistol and was looking in the market for a nice gun for this caliber.

*yep, because in California you can only buy a new handgun per month...
 

The one I've looked was a Sig Sauer p220 Equinox, like this one:


What I liked on it:
a) Controls are the same as the p226 mk25 I just bought (but still waiting to be allowed to receive it... you known, 10 days waiting period in California).

b) It is a Sig, so should be well built.

c) It has a rail.

d) The finish is amazing!

Some people claim that the way to go with .45 acp is a legendary 1911 (which the design was given to John Moses Browing by God himself... seriously, it is amazing how much John contributed to arms/guns/rifles designs!), but I've read that more 'affordable' ones are prone to malfunction.

Also it seems that the smaller tolerances in a 1911 leads to requirements (e.g. cleaning) that are not present in more modern designs.

Basically what I'm looking in a gun is:
a) Reliability (i.e. will it malfunction? Does it eat any ammo?).
b) Easy strip/cleaning.
c) Metal frame (I known, I known... but I personally believe guns should not be made of plastic, call me old fashion).


Any suggestions?
 

[Bighead]

Just gonna throw this out there. Hard to beat this one for what you get for the $$$. Built like a tank and shoots all day out of the box. Zero issues. Some think they are lesser quality because they are made in the Philippines. But they have been making them since the 50’s. Dont know about the early years but these late model ones are great firearms.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/35196/rock+island+armory+m1911-a1+tactical+ii+45+acp+5%22+g10+grips+fiber+optic+adj+sgts+45+acp
I also have a Ruger .45 acp that I love. Stainless model. That has given me no issues.

[hubcapsc]

Springfield XD...

-Mike

[Detn8er]

Springfield XD...

-Mike

[Serk]

Springfield XD...

-Mike

My vote as well, although he said he doesn't want polymer.....

I've got a bunch of 45's including a whole mess of 1911's, and while I love my old school 1911's, my FNH and others I might have it's a Springfield XD that I keep on my body at all times and a different XD that's in the quick access safe next to my bed.

[9Ball]

These are the nicest .45s...

https://www.maxim.com/gear/most-expensive-pistols-meteorite-2016-6

[Pappy!]

Lesa picked up a very nice Springfield Range Officer Elite about a year and a half ago in .45ACP. We both enjoy it.
We were in the same boat you are. We were looking for a good to great quality 1911 that wouldn't break the bank. Springfield puts a lot of "bang" for the buck in their guns and this one has not disappointed in any way shape or form.
The RO Elites come with match grade bull barrels in them, G10 grips and various barrel lengths and features.
It is a good shooter and with the bull barrel it feels like it has a bit of an upper hand in handling felt recoil. Has never failed to go bang no matter what we put through it. See what you think.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/ro-elite-series/

[Savago]

It is a good shooter and with the bull barrel it feels like it has a bit of an upper hand in handling felt recoil. Has never failed to go bang no matter what we put through it. See what you think.
https://www.springfield-armory.com/ro-elite-series/

Damn, it looks amazing!

[Savago]

@Pappy!: and is not part of the California gun roster...
 :'(

The only 1911 made by Springfield I could find is this one:
https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns/1911-emp-compact-pi9209l-alloy-steel-0

[Serk]

BTW, if you're looking for a 1911 that is less expensive but still a quality gun, and might twinge your patriotism a bit, take a good look at the Taurus line of 1911's..... They're not Wilson Combat, but they're very affordable, carry lifetime warranties, and they're made in Brazil...

Now, if you're willing to spend a lot more for a VERY nice 1911, there's always this one: 

https://www.auto-ordnance.com/trump-45-1911/

[Pappy!]

Savago - The EMP line of guns is what I am looking at as my next possible purchase.....in 9MM.
Looking at the EMP4 Contour. This is another one that sports a match grade bull barrel, full length guide rod and no barrel bushing needed.
Rather than make the .45ACP 1911 design work for the 9MM, Springfield changed a total of 17 parts to make a true 9MM 1911. For instance the magazines in this gun are not .45ACP mags made and modified to work with the 9MM load. They are totally redesigned as a stand alone magazine for 9MM only. Springfield did their homework on this gun and it shows. This new design replaces an earlier version that came out in 2007. Not inexpensive yet but it is on my short list.
Not sure if it is California compliant but take a look.

Yep....not a .45 and I know the itch to own and shoot one!

https://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-emp-4-concealed-carry-contour-9mm/#PI9229L

[Bighead]

Yep Springfield makes a good firearm. I owned a couple before the tragic boating accident of 2013

[Jess from VA]

I have a German made P220 (not the Equinox, which I don't care for the shiny), and it is a good and reliable double action .45 pistol.  It's the pistol designed to go into my load bearing vest with 8 30rd AR mags (with 6 extra P220 mags).  But I can't get excited about it.

What I love is 1911A1 single action pistols with 2.5 to 4lb triggers.  You can't go wrong with any of the good Sig, Kimber, Springfield Armory, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Colt, and maybe a few others.  Discounting the ridiculously expensive Wilson and Nighthawk Customs, the medium expensive Dan Wesson's are very nice, if you can't stand any MIM (metal injection molding) parts in them.

What I don't care for in traditional double action hammer fired autos like the P220 (with one in the chamber) is that first long terrible double action trigger pull that always pulls off target.  Yes, you can thumb the hammer back to make even the first shot single action (esp at the range), but then even the single action triggers in those guns is nothing to compare with the sweet triggers in good single action 1911s.  Precision trigger work is a large part of being an accurate handgunner.  Add target adjustable sights, and you've really got something.

If your principle reason for shooting will be precision range work, then the 1911 is the way to go.  They are mostly too big and heavy for carry (though some do)(and they can be had with 4" bbls and alloy frames which significantly reduces weight).  If you are mostly looking for self defense and carry, then a lighter, smaller polymer frame striker gun is probably the better choice.

I understand the thinking to add a Sig P220 to your Sig 226 Mk25 Navy with commonality of controls, but you will basically have the same pistol, in 9mm and .45acp.  (Also, every gun you buy doesn't need a rail for a light; your principle home defense gun should, but they all don't need lights.)  

But variety is the spice of life. (and these are spicy)









And once you get your 1911, get some grips from these guys.  https://vzgrips.com/pistol-grips/1911

I like the Aliens:


 

 

[SCain]

Lots of good suggestions, I am also a 1911 guy, I own 4 of them and one of them is a 10mm.
Buy what fits your hand and what you like.

[old2soon]

         I am quite happy with that S&W .40 cal M&P compact I have. NOT plastic like my S&W SVE .40 cal that is partly plastic BUT I like em both. The compact is 10 and 1 and the SVE is 14 and 1. Believe both are available in .45 ACP. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Everyone likes to participate, but we cannot forget that Savago is in the Peoples Republic of CA, with the multitude of compliance issues all their good citizens must deal with.

So, sticking with Sig, but going with a 1911 target gun, I found this (one CA compliant model):

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/1911-target-full-size.html





It's not exactly easy to discover what makes it CA complainant, but it appears to be a 1) loaded chamber indicator and a 2) magazine disconnect. (and 10 round max mags)

The loaded chamber indicator appears to be a red part that pops up to show you there is a round in the chamber.  It is so bold it may not let a loaded gun fit in some form fitting kydex holsters.  I'm surprised it's not an actual flag on a little flagpole (with an audible horn blowing).

Here is it on the Sig 226 Mk25 Navy.


And OMG, not only a red flag, but bold instructions in English (but not Spanish?) in case you can't remember what the flag means.


I hate magazine disconnects (which usually make the trigger shittier), so if you get in a fight/scuffle and the mag gets dropped, no shooting him with the one left in the chamber.  And you can't single load and shoot with no mag.  

Anyway, there is no choice for lawful CA (new) sales.

I have no idea if you can lawfully get around this with older used firearms.

[Savago]

It is so bold it may not let a loaded gun fit in some form fitting kydex holsters.  I'm surprised it's not an actual flag on a little flagpole (with an audible horn blowing).
And OMG, not only a red flag, but bold instructions in English (but not Spanish?) in case you can't see the flag.

LOL! I had a good laugh with this!
 

And yeah, any new gun 'approved' to the California gun roster has to comply with this and other limitations (no wonder manufacturers don't want to go through the ordeal of certifying their products for the Californian market).


@all: All good suggestions, I really appreciate it! I'm planning to visit the range and rent a few 1911s before making a decision.

[Gavin_Sons]

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQ6CHF7AbB_fB-1aDvDRMp0Yio0eQ%3A1568938797510&source=hp&ei=LRuEXcLtHMnX5gL7-a_YCA&q=jesse+james+1911+donald+trump&oq=jessie+james+1911&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.1.0i10l8.3059.8967..10550...1.0..0.202.2003.1j15j1......0....1.......8..35i362i39j35i39j0j46i131j0i131j46i39i275j0i20i263j46j46i275j46i10.gXhr1FgSUBk#imgrc=U40tDqWjquJwwM:

[Mr Whiskey]

What I don't care for in traditional double action hammer fired autos like the P220 (with one in the chamber) is that first long terrible double action trigger pull... Precision trigger work is a large part of being an accurate handgunner.

If your principle reason for shooting will be precision range work, then the 1911 is the way to go.  They are mostly too big and heavy for carry (though some do)(and they can be had with 4" bbls and alloy frames which significantly reduces weight).  If you are mostly looking for self defense and carry, then a lighter, smaller polymer frame striker gun is probably the better choice.

Couldn't agree more, trigger pull should always be the same.
This gets my vote for personal defense carry...
https://waltherarms.com/ppq-45-3/
Sweetest factory trigger I've encountered yet

BTW, if you're looking for a 1911 that is less expensive but still a quality gun, and might twinge your patriotism a bit, take a good look at the Taurus line of 1911's..... They're not Wilson Combat, but they're very affordable, carry lifetime warranties, and they're made in Brazil...

Last Taurus I had got sent back, took 15 weeks to return to me...
and it still failed to extract. Their customer service is the worst in the business IMO.

[semo97]

I agree with the Springfield, mine is the RO compact 45 with 4" barrel and hogue grips.  One thing to remember with the Springfield your sight picture is not the three dots lined up it is a triangle with front sight dot inline but right above the outside dots. This is a standard 6 round mag and can get a 7 but get one that has a bumper so you do not ram the mag to high in the mag well it will cause feeding problems.

[gordonv]

This gets my vote for personal defense carry...
https://waltherarms.com/ppq-45-3/
Sweetest factory trigger I've encountered yet [/size]

I had just seen this on my PVR of an episode of Guns & Ammo TV.
https://waltherarms.com/q5-match-m2/
Was very interested in it. But the price and how little I shot scared me off. But a 9mm with a good man stopper bullet, would be the way I would go. Research found that there is only a few 1 shot stops, and that there is usually 3 or more shots taken (this is by a very old memory, I used to be up on this back in the 90's - 00's).

I like the 5" barrel.

[Savago]

BTW, if you're looking for a 1911 that is less expensive but still a quality gun, and might twinge your patriotism a bit, take a good look at the Taurus line of 1911's..... They're not Wilson Combat, but they're very affordable, carry lifetime warranties, and they're made in Brazil...

@Serk:  I will check them out! There is one Taurus revolver that I would love to buy (The Judge), but that is not part of the California roster because is considered a 'shortened shotgun' as it chambers both 45 Colt and 410 shotshell (https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/taurus-judge/taurus-judge-revolvers-45-colt-5-round-matte-stainless-2/):
 

[Jess from VA]

Those are neither good shotguns, nor good handguns. 

They are great clubs though.

[Savago]

Gentlemen

Just to finish this story (I don't like threads that never come to a conclusion...), here goes an update.

I've rented a Springfield Armory 1911, liked the way the gun felt in the hand and the extra weight but experienced 3 malfunctions shooting a single box of ammo (i.e. failure to feed and failure to eject). Comparatively speaking, the Navy p226 and the HK USP9 I've rented in the same range didn't have any issues shooting.

In the end, I decided to buy the Equinox.

It is a joy to shoot it and I'm working to build up my skills (noticed that shooting a 9mm is so much easier after getting used to a .45 acp)!

[Bighead]

Good on you but failures can be ammo or firearm break in period. I have a couple that wont feed certain ammo and have one that in the first 300 rounds I thought I would have to send back as it wouldnt load after an ejection. But I kept firing it and somewhere aroud the 350 round mark it started running as it should and have had zero issues since. So dont let a failure of ejection or loading deter you  as you only fired that one weapon.

[MarkT]

Yeah the judge has not been treated kindly by the gun press.  I don't have one and never shot one but my opinion is there are better choices for any of the uses I might have.

In the past I've been partial to Colt's Combat Elite 1911.  Not to mention (horrors) the Glock 21SF.  I think not for CA though.  Double stack, 13 rounds of .45acp and you don't need giant hands. SF means Short Frame - smaller grip than the non-SF model.  The gun is pretty big though - bigger than a full-size 1911.  Not like the very compact .45's of late.  Like I said elsewhere - I stopped buying handguns due to not trusting the govt.  But if I was still in the market there have been some attractive autoloaders released in recent years.

[Jess from VA]

Take a look at the grips for the P220.

https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/sigsauer/p220amer/dasa

I like the rubber with finger grooves. (they come without grooves)  Not as pretty as fancy wood, but work better.
https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/sigsauer/p220amer/dasa/rubber


Or G10.


I just have the Hogue standard grip sleeve on mine. ($10)
https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/handall/sleeve/handall-universal-full-size-grip-sleeve-black


And get some better grip screws (hex) while you're at it. (black or stainless)
https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/sigsauer/p220amer/dasa/screws

[Savago]

@Jess: Wow! Those are some nice upgrades for my p220, I was looking for a better (i.e. more functional) grip.
 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I just sold a set of Hogue G10 grips from my P239. I did really like them, and they were a nice upgrade from stock. I ended up getting a set of Crimson Trace lasergrips for short money, so on they went. They're actually pretty comfortable as well, so I'm pleased with the addition.

[Jess from VA]

I have a couple Crimson Trace laser grips on short barrel Smith J and K frames.

They are not my favorite grips (at all), but they are the best laser grips. 

[Pappy!]

Unless your funds are unlimited it would do you well to practice mostly with your 9mm as you can fire two boxes of 9mm to one box of 45acp cost wise. Bulk purchases are the way to fly.
Accuracy comes with muscle memory and proper trigger technique. Once learned it pretty much transfers to any pistol you have in your hand. Practicing with a less expensive round will get you where you want to be.
You will find that staying with a pistol platform in your purchases will do a lot for you as well. By platform I mean a 1911 platform vs striker fired vs revolver, etc. Your muscle memory is easier to retain when dealing with a single platform and it's operational characteristics.

[Bighead]

Unless your funds are unlimited it would do you well to practice mostly with your 9mm as you can fire two boxes of 9mm to one box of 45acp cost wise. Bulk purchases are the way to fly.
Accuracy comes with muscle memory and proper trigger technique. Once learned it pretty much transfers to any pistol you have in your hand. Practicing with a less expensive round will get you where you want to be.
You will find that staying with a pistol platform in your purchases will do a lot for you as well. By platform I mean a 1911 platform vs striker fired vs revolver, etc. Your muscle memory is easier to retain when dealing with a single platform and it's operational characteristics.

Pappy you need to find a differnt ammo store if you pay twice for .45acp as 9mm. I pay $9.99 for 9mm and $11.99 for .45acp. That is only $.04 a round difference.

[Pappy!]

Last thousand for 9mm that I ordered a few days ago was $8.49 a box shipped from Graf. That is $169.80 shipped for 115gr brass case round nose. New not reman.
That beats the tar out of your $9.99/box and I bet that was before tax. Maybe you need to look for a different ammo store?
Been a while for .45acp but your price comes out to $239 for a thousand and you do not specify tax or shipping or if it is steel, aluminum or brass case ammo.
So......Just for the heck of it I looked at Blazer 45acp in luckygunner and it came out to around $335 shipped per thousand. New not reman.
Graf has Fiocchi 230 gr. FMJ for $309 and change shipped per 1000. new not reman.
How far off am I again?
Am pretty well up on ammo prices because I shoot a ton of ammo per year. But...I do not shoot steel or aluminum cased ammo. Your results may vary!

[Bighead]

Yeah I could order and pay a bit less for 9mm and do get it on sale local at 8.99 per 50. A couple times a year (and stick up then). The .45 I speak of is Speer brass case. 

[Pappy!]

Well.....you should have loaded up the back end of your pick-up with the Speer at that price.
If you do your homework now you will see what I am talking about. Only shooting 100 rounds per year I can see you may not be up on current pricing.

[Bighead]

No I shoot way more than 100 rnds a month.  Went and looked I currently have 800 rounds of it. I usually stop and pick up a few boxes 2-3 times a month. Also looked at the 9 mm and was mistaken it wasnt $9.99 its was $9.39. Not a huge difference but $.60 makes it over a penny a round cheaper