service bulletins on vehicles

[cookiedough]

anyone get a service bulletin (TSB-technical service bulletin) done on their vehicle inside of warranty period and what the service bulletin being done to prevent the problem actually causes the problem to happen?

Has happened to me twice one being Toyota few years ago and this one today being Hyundai vehicle nearly causing wreck car went in to LIMP MODE unable to accelerate much and herky jerky tranny shifts from 0 to 30 mph pretty severe in rush hour traffic this morning.

Basically, both service bulletins they re-programmed the ECM computer control module to prevent engine issues but in reality they caused major havoc.  I probably should have pulled over and get the vehicle towed in since was backing up traffic but still ran after horrendous shifting and cutting out on me with people around me.    3-4 years ago I did get my Toyota towed into on Toyota's dime on a flat bed trailer since unable to go over 30 mph and near redlining the engine.

Are NOT these modern techy electronically controlled engines so great?????????  

to top it off, Hyundai dealer today did not give me a loaner vehicle to drive for 1-2 days until a new engine knock sensor is in the thing since even though warranty issue,  they had none to loan out, or so they say.  I told service writer to pull a used cheapo car off the lot said cannot do that.  Welcome to GREAT customer service - NOT!   Car ran fine first 70K miles until I reluctantly agreed to do the service bulletin which extended warranty from 100K to 120K of which I may need to use it over and over again now thanks to shitty mfgs. not testing for 99.99% accuracy vs. just doing a band aid approach on fixing the REAL issue at hand.  

[scooperhsd]

Actually, VW has been pretty good on doing recalls (I have two  TDI-s - one a 2000 New Beetle 372,000 miles, the other a 2015 Golf that was impacted by the DIESELGATE ). The ones on the Golf have been actually fixed the issues the recalls were on.

[Sorcerer]

What year Hyundai ? Month or so ago I had my 2016 Kia Sportage in for a similar recall. Mine was  readjusting the engine knock sensor to pick up connecting rod bearing knock. The paperwork that came with the recall noted that if the engine knock sensor light comes on that the computer will start keeping track of mileage that the car is driven and engine run time. If ignored it will void the Now life time warranty on the engine. I now have a very slight engine lag when starting from a stop while in eco mode. I nail the gas from a start it’s not noticeable. It sounds as though it’s questionable connecting rod bearings on all 4 bangers across all of the model line and multiple years.

[Jess from VA]

I just got a notice on my Dodge truck that there might be a problem with a cooling fan seizure heating up enough to burn the truck down.  Not to worry, they're working on it and I might hear if there is a fix sometime in the next couple years.

I'm trying to figure out if I am better off knowing this, or whether ignorance was bliss.   

I'm adding a fire extinguisher to my on-board box of tools and stuff.  (never a bad idea anyway)

I'm holding off on the Nomex flight suit and gloves.   

[Robert]

I think what is frustrating is they program this limp mode, fail safe, or what ever you call it into the cars. Some exhibit this behavior the minute the check engine light comes on for specific codes. Trying to save the car they put owners into compromising positions, like in your case, even when there is not an immediate problem.

 TSB are a problem with cars and sometimes not covered free of charge. Basically they know there is a problem but you are out of pocket for it.  

 Some BMW's have electric water pumps and the car can shut down without notice no matter where you are either on the highway or the street when the pump fails, leaving you stranded.  

 If you read the TSB and recalls on the cars you would be amazed at what could happen, but does not in all cases.

Just think of it like your computer did an update and that update caused the computer to not work.

[Jess from VA]

I got into limp mode once on my way home from work, in heavy traffic.  

Nothing in the whole world makes you simulate a drunk driver more than limp mode, short of ramming into people and driving on the sidewalk.  

When I found out the code was a cam position sensor, I had to look it up as I had never heard of one of those before.  I always thought the cam was bolted down pretty good and didn't need a sensor to know where it was.  

A few years later, after a factory computer reflash recall, the car began (very) randomly failing to start, but with no engine light or code at all to give you a hint of what was wrong.  After spending most of a Sunday sitting in a rest stop on the PA Turnpike (37 miles from the next exit), I traded the car for something else, as I could no longer stand the excitement of a randomly dead car.  The mechanics at the dealer where I made the trade were scratching their heads for hours trying to figure it out too.

No wonder my brother won't own any vehicle manufactured after 1972.  The most high tech thing he deals with is replacing the mechanical points with a little electronic gizmo in the distributor.  Remember those?

[old2soon]

          International tractor with a Cummins diesel computer controlled engine 07 or 08 model. I=10 east of Houston Texas bout 5:30 P M-1730 fer us military types-construction no shoulder and I wuz already in the right lane and the dash lights up starts flashing and the big mofo DIES! Immediatley put on the 4 ways but I have managed-well the truck has actually-to P O a bunch of folks on the way home fer dat first icy cold brewski!  Still had the electric so put an emergency message on the puter and called the shop. The blanlkety blank blank would not even turn over. 45 minutes later-lotsa cops too-the wrecker shows up and tows me to the International dealer. Goin from memory here- -2 or 3 of the E C Ms crapped out none in the supply system they rob a new truck on the lot for the puters i need BUT the robbed ones have the updates. So they replace ALL the E C Ms and git it all correctamundo. Most of the trucks in Heartlands fleet had the bad puters-as i understand it-all were replaced under warranty at the time. Found out later i weren't the only one whose truck crapped out at a very unfortunate time!  The More these puters take over the more problems I foresee. BUT that could be like just me man.  RIDE SAFE.

[Robert]

I got into limp mode once on my way home from work, in heavy traffic. 

Nothing in the whole world makes you simulate a drunk driver more than limp mode, short of ramming into people and driving on the sidewalk. 

When I found out the code was a cam position sensor, I had to look it up as I had never heard of one of those before.  I always thought the cam was bolted down pretty good and didn't need a sensor to know where it was. 

A few years later, after a factory computer reflash recall, the car began (very) randomly failing to start, but with no engine light or code at all to give you a hint of what was wrong.  After spending most of a Sunday sitting in a rest stop on the PA Turnpike (37 miles from the next exit), I traded the car for something else, as I could no longer stand the excitement of a randomly dead car.  The mechanics at the dealer where I made the trade were scratching their heads for hours trying to figure it out too.

No wonder my brother won't own any vehicle manufactured after 1972.  The most high tech thing he deals with is replacing the mechanical points with a little electronic gizmo in the distributor.  Remember those?

Yup that can and does happen more often than not. Interesting note to your story the cam postion sensor in unison with the crank position sensor determine when to fire the plugs and injection. If the cam position sensor does not work the car will not start because it cannot determine the position to fire. But it will keep running on a cam sensor failuer till you shut it off. In the first moments you crank the engine the computer calibrates the timing and determines the fuel mixture also then the engine gets the OK to start. No determination equals no start. The modern day engines vary the cam position to achive higher power, less emissions, and smoother running better fuel economy.

BMW in all their wisdom has done away with a throttle plate and the intake manifold is open like a diesel. They do have a throttle but its wide open all the time except in a failuer. They vary the opening of the valves to achive throttle response.

Good video and unless you can speak Italian you will not understand the words but it gives the best break down of the operation of this Valvetronic system.

https://youtu.be/nNUVUIN_kkU


This is a little less in depth video and explains in english what this system does

https://youtu.be/C9JA5vwj-NU

NO nothing could go wrong  especially since most modern day car have anywhere between 9 to 30 computers in them.

[cookiedough]

What year Hyundai ? Month or so ago I had my 2016 Kia Sportage in for a similar recall. Mine was  readjusting the engine knock sensor to pick up connecting rod bearing knock. The paperwork that came with the recall noted that if the engine knock sensor light comes on that the computer will start keeping track of mileage that the car is driven and engine run time. If ignored it will void the Now life time warranty on the engine. I now have a very slight engine lag when starting from a stop while in eco mode. I nail the gas from a start it’s not noticeable. It sounds as though it’s questionable connecting rod bearings on all 4 bangers across all of the model line and multiple years.

YEP,  that is the one on 2.4L 4 cylinder engines uses on tons of Hyundai lineups.  2014 hyundai sonata but the service bulletin covers a lot of years and a TON of cars on the 2.4L engine being used. 

YES,  I too AFTER the service bulletin was done was perfectly fine before,  noticed a very, very slight engine lag from a dead stop soon after the repair was done.  AGREE,  nail the gas from a start and NO fast pickup at all for a split second.  Just yesterday though it got MUCH worse for 1st time going up a hill on hwy. on cruise control the cruise control disengaged all of a sudden NOT picking up speed past 62 mph or so and knew something right then and there was wrong.  The next 25 or so miles into work at EVERY stop the engine literally cut out BIG TIME jerking the car violently like the tranny was not shifting gears but in reality it was the damn electronics cutting 100% power to the engine at say 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gear in the 10 mph and 20 mph or so range enough so that if someone was behind me accelerating that car would have rear ended me it was HORRIBLE. 

Get it in ASAP for I am 99% sure the slight lag time off a dead stop even if you punch the accelerator is the darn knock sensor being too darn sensitive to engine vibration interfering with the normal day to day driving characteristics of the car cutting power to the engine.  Dealer calls it LAG TIME.  I call it an accident waiting to happen in stop/go traffic if it becomes like mine did yesterday.

[cookiedough]

what irks me more than anything is both dealers I talked to and researched told me about 10-15% AFTER the TSB is done the engine can experience LIMP MODE even though prior was perfectly fine.  Something to do with recalibrating the knock sensor or computer or both to become more sensitive to engine vibration.  Neither dealer said the car will experience herky jerky erraditic 100% lack of power from 0 to 30 mph twice in that timeframe for about 2 seconds each gear change it seemed like.  That is DANGEROUS when cars behind you are accelerating and my car does NOT for 2-3 seconds twice up to 30 mph.  Car also would not go above 62 mph or so in rush hour traffic on the beltline, was NOT fun them doing 70 mph all around me in bumper to bumper traffic. 

So,  what Hyundai is doing is putting  band aid fix on not testing what they did will fix the REAL underlying issue to a high degree of accuracy  say 99% more like 85% which to me is horribly wrong and should be dealt with with NHSTA -national hwy. safety traffic administation. (I think that is the name of the govt. body)

[cookiedough]

wow dealer setup an UBER ride my first EVER to come get me 30 miles south and 30 miles back on dealers dime as it should be for messing up my car.  I talked to service writer and the knock sensor is not going to be replaced, but the wiring that goes to it.  Apparently they have had good luck replacing the wiring if this limp mode goes bad AFTER the service bulletin was done.

Why not just replace the knock sensor wiring at the time doing the service bulletin then since is obvious that 10-15% of the problems AFTER the service bulletin is done stems from this wiring upgrade?  Piss poor Hyundai mfg. if you ask me and patch job on real underlying issue of engine failure am guessing in less than 5% of entire 2.4L engine lineup, which since is the  most common engine Hyundai uses amounts to 1000's am sure of that 5% having issues.

Oh wait,  just got text from UBER saying busy no one available at this time, contact dealer.  Wanna bet UBER does not go much outside big city limits since I live 30 miles south of there and 40  minute drive which in big city Madison traffic congestion is like 10 miles of driving not 30 miles.   Gotta love UBER, NOT!

UBER not available must be the holiday season even tried doing UBER myself and NONE around cost 30 miles here and 30 miles there would have been 43 bucks billed to dealership since I tried doing UBER myself vs. dealer doing it and still unavailable for a ride.

So, called dealer they will send an employee and pick me up at home and drive me to dealership 30 miles away being 10 bucks in gas and probably 2 hours pay at 15 per hour so still cheaper at 40 vs. UBER 43 bucks. 

What really irks me is Hyundai knows for a fact that 10-15% of service bulletin can cause the issue and 2nd fix after possible getting into a wreck is to replace wiring harness to knock sensor which supposedly cures the problem.  That replacement of wiring harness needs to be done on ALL vehicles affected during the 1st visit NOT 2nd visit after issues arise.  Hyundai just too cheap to replace on say 200,000 vehicles a 100 dollar wiring harness part until a lawsuit comes their way for inferior solution 1st time around on service bulletin not done properly to begin with. 

[scooperhsd]

I drove Uber for about 8-9 months in the Raleigh area. I went wherever I needed to. It maybe there wasn't any drivers within 5-10 miles of your location.

[cookiedough]

I drove Uber for about 8-9 months in the Raleigh area. I went wherever I needed to. It maybe there wasn't any drivers within 5-10 miles of your location.

there is NO UBER drivers for a fact within 20 miles from my house since live in rural area 30 miles away from Madison WI big city.  Why cannot UBER drive from Madison area 30 miles south see no difference vs. going same timeframe 40 minutes from east to westside of Madison just another 15 miles or so is all. 

maybe they are all booked up at 10 a.m. this morning from drunks on New Years day?  After all,  WI is nationally ranked as one of the most drunken states in America. 

[Sorcerer]

 

[scooperhsd]

I drove Uber for about 8-9 months in the Raleigh area. I went wherever I needed to. It maybe there wasn't any drivers within 5-10 miles of your location.

there is NO UBER drivers for a fact within 20 miles from my house since live in rural area 30 miles away from Madison WI big city.  Why cannot UBER drive from Madison area 30 miles south see no difference vs. going same timeframe 40 minutes from east to westside of Madison just another 15 miles or so is all. 

maybe they are all booked up at 10 a.m. this morning from drunks on New Years day?  After all,  WI is nationally ranked as one of the most drunken states in America. 

Time is money -  most drivers won't go too far for a short trip.

[..]

I drove Uber for about 8-9 months in the Raleigh area. I went wherever I needed to. It maybe there wasn't any drivers within 5-10 miles of your location.

there is NO UBER drivers for a fact within 20 miles from my house since live in rural area 30 miles away from Madison WI big city.  Why cannot UBER drive from Madison area 30 miles south see no difference vs. going same timeframe 40 minutes from east to westside of Madison just another 15 miles or so is all. 

maybe they are all booked up at 10 a.m. this morning from drunks on New Years day?  After all,  WI is nationally ranked as one of the most drunken states in America. 

You're 24 hours ahead of the rest of the country re New Years Day?

[cookiedough]

I drove Uber for about 8-9 months in the Raleigh area. I went wherever I needed to. It maybe there wasn't any drivers within 5-10 miles of your location.

there is NO UBER drivers for a fact within 20 miles from my house since live in rural area 30 miles away from Madison WI big city.  Why cannot UBER drive from Madison area 30 miles south see no difference vs. going same timeframe 40 minutes from east to westside of Madison just another 15 miles or so is all.  

maybe they are all booked up at 10 a.m. this morning from drunks on New Years day?  After all,  WI is nationally ranked as one of the most drunken states in America.  

You're 24 hours ahead of the rest of the country re New Years Day?

We start very EARLY here in WI....    

Made it home no hickups and car ran as it should.  I popped the hood after reading the repair order stating took intake manifold off to install the wiring harness for knock sensor.  NO WAY can that new wire I saw with white tag stating 'knock sensor' could cost that much is in front of dipstick area in front running underneath the plastic cover somewhere.  Just replace the darn thing 1st time, problem solved, or so I hope and BETTER BE!

What I found very, very odd after reading the description though of the repair paperwork worries me.  It said they replaced the knock sensor wiring harness and tested it AFTER install new one and STILL diagnostics threw the P.... error code still.  They cleared the P.... code and unplugged knock sensor and tested again and NO error code.  So, nothing was done differently besides unplugging knock sensor so worried me it will happen again soon.  

I filed a consumer complaint case number with hyundai mtr. division in case car does not shift and is lethargic (limp mode) again for a 3rd time is not going to happen without repurcussions.

I also asked about why service engine soon light NOT on when it acted up badly yesterday morning and dealer was puzzled, but AFTER they started the car again when I left dealership they said the service engine soon light finally came on as it should have done when driving which it did not those 20+ miles that morning. 

[Grumpy]

my dodge Ram 2500 had a recall for the air bags, dealer had it 2 days, no loaner. Got it back and they said were checked and no problems. Now randomly the air bag light turns on and disables the air bags. They will not correct the problem. Up to me to pay several hundred dollars to check and see what the problem is.

[cookiedough]

my dodge Ram 2500 had a recall for the air bags, dealer had it 2 days, no loaner. Got it back and they said were checked and no problems. Now randomly the air bag light turns on and disables the air bags. They will not correct the problem. Up to me to pay several hundred dollars to check and see what the problem is.

that is B.S. right there.  If airbag recall and soon after the airbag light comes on,  then whatever they did CAUSED it JUST LIKE my circumstance. 

I did my research and was very, very, very hesitant on doing this service bulletin since others have had NO issues in say 50-100K miles and weeks after doing the service bulletin, all heck breaks loose just like what the Hyundai dlr did to me. 

I kick myself in the butt for doing it now since reading 100's of posts online that NO wrong with the engine until dlr messed with the programming of the knock sensor to become MORE sensitive to engine vibration.  Even some coming in a 3rd time for engine misfires and locking out and dying and now needing full engine replacement.  Thanks Hyundai for doing such a shitty job on something that was probably never needed to be done, at least on my car,  NEVER in the first place, ran perfectly fine the past 70K miles until last month or so when they touched it.   

ONLY good thing is it affects over 500K vehicles with the 2.0 and 2.4L engine and all 200+ posts I read last night state in near every single one of  them once the engine seizes/locks out/dies,  Hyundai and Kia is doing the right thing and replacing engine free of charge with free loaner for weeks as well.    Some posts say up to 120K miles, other state warranty is good for full 15 years and unlimited mileage, that one is confusing for sure.   Either way,  I am 100% covered on engine/tranny for 120K miles vs. the normal 100K miles now, but at what costs long term if keep it AFTER 120K miles?    Some posts have seen though Hyundai/Kia stood behind some vehicles with these engines to near 200K miles before problems, much to my surprise.