Electrical Issue on 97' 1500C

[Gene]

Hi folks,
I'm stumped with an electrical problem on my Valk.  A couple weeks ago I attempted to start it after a cold night.  The engine turned as normal but didn't start (normal for this temp).  I tried again for 3 seconds and it didn't turn over (again normal for this bike at 35 degrees).  I turned the ignition off to wait a couple minutes.  Then turned the key, and nothing.  No lights, no starter, nothing.  Like the battery disappeared!  Here is what I have tested:
- Checked lithium battery (13.3V)
- Checked voltage to starter solenoid (good)
- Checked all 10a fuses, and 30a amp on starter relay, and main fuse (good)
- Switched out battery with older lead acid (13V - still no lights or IG)
- Checked continuity on main ground (good)
- Pulled tank and checked for voltage to IG switch (good)
- Checked continuity on IG switch (none when off, good when on)

I'm stumped (and have reached my limit on electrical knowledge).  Not sure where to go from here. 

One note: The IG Switch, when on, had continuity between ALL terminals, the manual shows two sets of connections, but no continuity between the sets (not in my garage and can't remember which wires at the moment).  But the IG Switch seems like it should send power down the line.

Any advise would be REALLY appreciated as I'm driving my wife's Prius until I get the Valk back on the road.

Thanks,
Gene

[hubcapsc]

There's a thing where you have to clean the contacts under the starter button,
that might be your problem. I've never had it, but a lot of people have, and
you can search the site on it... other folks will probably chime in on this thread.

And, my bike won't start right away when it is cold. I've seen more than one
Valkyrie rider run his battery down on a  cold morning outside the motel...
I try to start mine two, maybe three times on a cold morning, then walk
away for a few minutes and try again and it starts with a couple of tries. Every
now and then I have to walk away a couple of times... but I never run
my battery down.

-Mike

[indybobm]

Pull the red connector off of the top of the starter relay and check for corrosion, burnt wires, etc. There is one wire at that connector that basically supplies voltage for the entire bike. corrosion there causes heat that can melt the connector.

[Chrisj CMA]

Starter button maintenance is what I would do. If done correctly it will last years

[WintrSol]

Junk build up in the starter button switches can cause both problems; checking the wire at the starter relay is and easy thing to do, too. Both may need attention, anyway.

[..]

BE VEWY VEWY CAREFUL with the starter. There's a little spring inside that will boing to a galaxy far far away if you aren't careful.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Wouldn’t be a bad idea to check the “dogbone” fuse along with the other recommendations.

[bassman]

Is there "spark" at the sparklers (spark plugs) that you can see / verify?

[Gnarly]

BE VEWY VEWY CAREFUL with the starter. There's a little spring inside that will boing to a galaxy far far away if you aren't careful.

Britman is 100% correct!
There is a tiny *Jesus* spring, inside the starter switch housing!


"*Jesus!* Did you see where that went?!?"

[Gene]

Thanks for the responses guys.  I think I had the starter switch replaced years ago, but didn't think that the starter button would prevent power to the lights.  But  the kill switch is part of that assembly and possibly causing the issue.  I'll check that switch assembly out this weekend, and thanks for the heads up on the spring in the switch!

Still trying to get the circuitry straight in my head, as the lights always come on with the IG switch, regardless of the position of the kill switch or depressing the starter button.  I'll pull it apart, clean it and will report here what the results were.  Thanks again!

[Chrisj CMA]

It is the job of the starter switch to cut power to the head light while the starter is cranking.

Make sure the little brass contact bounces up and down on it’s spring and isn’t stuck in its slot

[John Schmidt]

I was looking for the procedure for installing the relay in the headlight circuit to take the load off the start switch but couldn't find it. If anyone has that stashed on their computer I'd like to have a copy and it also should be posted here for Gene to install.

[bikerboy1951]

Eastern Beaver makes a very nice relaynto take the load off the start switch.

Brad

[Gene]

So I pulled the starter switch with the hope of solving this problem, but as I pulled it apart it was obvious that the switch was in pristine condition.  I cleaned and inspected it anyway and reassembled it.  Hooked the battery back up, turned the IG switch and nothing, no lights, no starter, like the battery didn't exist.

Now I'm really scratching my head.  I have power at the starter relay, power at the IG switch, I guess I should have checked for power at the starter switch, but had the battery disconnected.   I guess I could have checked continuity between the IG and Starter switch, but a broken wire is so unlikely. 

Any ideas from the experts out there? 

[RonW]

The red wire on the starter relay feeds the keybox +12. Some instances, its female blade terminal gets disconnected from it's prong on the starter relay and there's no way for the keybox to get electricity. You might try pushing the red wire's female blade terminal down in its slot to insure that its full plugged in. Don't just push down on the red thingie, but push down the individual red wire itself.

[hubcapsc]

Just to be sure: you dug in there behind the right side cover and
inspected the relay that looks like this?



It and the starter button a two of the main culprits...

-Mike

[gordonv]

My first thought is try another battery.

My second from reading this post, is the ignition switch (not the starter).

You have no head light, so either the starter button is stuck de-pressed, or there is no power there. Which leads me to the ignition switch.

Now where does the power come from to the ignition switch? I haven't looked, but I would follow the circuit from the battery to the starter switch, and try to get power there.

[RonW]

Now where does the power come from to the ignition switch? I haven't looked, but I would follow the circuit from the battery to the starter switch, and try to get power there.

Again, the red wire on the starter relay supplies the keybox with +12. There is only one red wire on the entire bike asides the battery cable. The red wire at its position on the starter relay is interconnected to battery positive. The interconnection is encased in green plastic so it's not visible.

[h13man]

Starter button maintenance is what I would do. If done correctly it will last years

Or replace the whole switch housing as there has been a part # change/revision on my 99' standard and the 97'as well. Mine had be push started and the headlight didn't work. Fortunately I got home before dark that night. https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb618f870023420a41739/switch-cable

[indybobm]

As I have posted and Ronw has said, check the red connector on top of the starter relay. All power to the bike goes through the red wire that comes out of the red connector. This can be the source of many problems either because of a poor connection, or corrosion that results in heat and a melted connector. Look at the picture that Hupcap posted. check the red wire that connects to the top left spade connector behind the fuse. Worth checking.

[Gene]

Thanks for all the advise guys, and here is a very strange outcome.

I removed the battery and starter relay and tested per manual.  It worked as expected, battery at 13v.
Earlier I disassembled the starter switch and cleaned, and checked the IG switch.  All tests positive.

I checked the red wires as recommended by RonW and IndyBob, and made sure all connections were secure and clean.

So I have everything put back together and I'm looking through the shop manual and out of the clear blue, the bike lights up!!  I'm on the other side of the garage (WTF!) and must have left the IG switch on.  All of sudden, it decides to come on completely, lights, starter, everything working??  I fired it up (with the gas tank off) with no problem.

Not sure what to think about this.  What could cause the electrical circuitry to start working perfectly on its own after not working at all, with no intervention? 

I put this Bikemaster Lithium battery in a few months ago and wonder if it is causing the freakish behavior?  With everything testing out, I have to focus back on the battery (which was at 13.3v all during this issue).  Anyone have any weird behavior from these Lithium batteries?
 

[indybobm]

An intermittent connection somewhere between the starter relay (the red wire gets its power internally inside the relay) and the starter button. Maybe a very corroded ground connection either at the battery or where the negative cable connects to the clutch cover on the left side down by the foot peg.

[hubcapsc]

I've had another brand of lithium battery on my 1500
for about five years... I've had real good luck out of it
I think...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've had another brand of lithium battery on my 1500
for about five years... I've had real good luck out of it
I think...

-Mike

My battery is about to give up the ghost. I've been thinking about one of those. Did you need to get a special charger also ?

[hubcapsc]

I've had another brand of lithium battery on my 1500
for about five years... I've had real good luck out of it
I think...

-Mike

My battery is about to give up the ghost. I've been thinking about one of those. Did you need to get a special charger also ?

No need for a special charger. I pooped it out when I had my bike on the lift
for a month back in September  when I was rewiring all my accessories
and blowing the horn and the lights and stuff. I was worried that my
low-end charger wasn't appropriate, so I googled around and convinced
myself the charger was OK. So I used it and it charged up the battery
just fine. My lithium battery has a button you can press and see if it
is OK, getting weak, or dead, I like that about it. So far I'm glad I got
it instead of another "regular" battery.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/autocraft-lithium-power-sport-battery-lithium-260-cca-lfp-4/10570098-P

Oh yeah - it is light as a feather and half the size of a regular battery,
it has "legs" to add to it so it will fit like normal.

-Mike "perhaps you could stash stuff under it  "

[Avanti]

I've had another brand of lithium battery on my 1500
for about five years... I've had real good luck out of it
I think...

-Mike

My battery is about to give up the ghost. I've been thinking about one of those. Did you need to get a special charger also ?

I would research the difference between Lithium Ion vs Lithium Iron Batteries before making a decision to purchase.   

[luftkoph]

Lithium battery, 35 degrees, I've never had one, but have looked into it for my dirt bikes, and one thing that I always here about is they need to be woke up when cold, it may show good voltage but it has no omph behind it, you have to turn the headlight on to get the battery excited before it puts out good power.

[Warlock]

I was looking for the procedure for installing the relay in the headlight circuit to take the load off the start switch but couldn't find it. If anyone has that stashed on their computer I'd like to have a copy and it also should be posted here for Gene to install.

Here you go.   
David

[97BLKVALK]

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html