Ring Gear Replacement

[Al in AK]

 
 All righty then. I have the final drive on the work bench to attempt replaceing the ring gear. Am I correct, that the Ring Gear is what the Final Drive Flange mates to ? And has anyone been through this procedure?
I am replaceing the final driven flange also.
Yes, I lube every winter, but by rights, the rain storms we experienced through Canada on the way south last summer, I should of gotten into them before heading back up. But they have been showing wear for some time now.
I did look in the archives, and there are people that have gotten twice as many miles as I have ( 80,000 ) and there splines are new looking.
Any imput would be greatly appreciated.

Al in AK







Thanks' again...............................

[Chrisj CMA]

Two things:

1.  Its much cheaper and easier to find a whole new (used) final drive.  Bout half the cost of new gears, and then you dont have to mess with putting them in.  Pinwall or any trike shop......or the classifieds

2.  Looks to me that not only lack of grease but also misaligned splines cause by improper assembly sequence would have cause wear like that.

Good luck

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Was it still working in that condition or did it down you on the road ?

[Al in AK]

Was it still working in that condition or did it down you on the road ?

I have been riding untill the snow hit. It has been worn since the last time I was in it last winter, but not as bad as now. The picture actualy looks better than it really is.

Ans as far as Chrisj suggestions. I just got of off Pinwalls site.

1) I tend to go with, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, meaning I would rather spend more than gamble on something i cannot see. The pictures of all the final drives they have do not show the splines.

2) I have followed the assembly sequence from the service manual. I am very pleased with the installation as I have gotten good mileage out of my rear bearings this go around. But ultimatly it's on me. I do want to get away from using the Honda moly and try something else.

Thanks' Chris

I do run a CT and Tow a trailer............................

[Thunderbolt]

So far so good.  I replace all three o-rings each time I take it apart.  Be sure you wait until after the axle is torqued before you tighten the 4 bolts holding the rear differential to the shaft tube.  If you have not done so already, take the u-joint out and check it while you are this far in.  Here is a link to Rattlebars site on how to remove the u-joint.

http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/ujoint.html

[Al in AK]

So far so good.  I replace all three o-rings each time I take it apart.  Be sure you wait until after the axle is torqued before you tighten the 4 bolts holding the rear differential to the shaft tube.  If you have not done so already, take the u-joint out and check it while you are this far in.  Here is a link to Rattlebars site on how to remove the u-joint.

http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/ujoint.html

I have been in there before and actualy have a brand new u-joint one on the shelve.
Thank you Thunderbolt..............

I am the one an only owner of this bike and have done all maintenance, so I have no excuses.............


The manual explains the Ring gear removal very well, I just thought I could get a little imput. I'll just give this post a little time.
FYI..The dealer looked up the complete assembled Final Gear and Honda no longer provides it. At least in his computer.

[T.P.]

LOOKS LIKE A #6 & #7  http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148544&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1999&fveh=3473    http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148543&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1999&fveh=3473      $147.08 and $232.91  off of the Directline website. not sure of your bike year so I put in 1999       T.P.

[Al in AK]

 T.P.
 Thank you very much. I was trying to bring that up on there site, but was having trouble. This will be very helpful.
My bike started out as a 98' standard, before getting it to were it is now.
I'll post my progress after I obtain all the parts.

Al in AK

 

[Chrisj CMA]

I do want to get away from using the Honda moly and try something else.

[/quote]

I too ruined a set of gears using that Honda Paste in the black tube.  If you read careefully on that tube called MOLY 60 it has fine print that says to use it as a moly GREASE.  And as far as I can swear to it, that crud is no where near water resistant.

I wrote to Honda about this product.  I told them that when I took my final drive apart the first time it had a thick coating of some great grease (from the factory) But after applying the Honda 60 paste it didnt look the same or perform the same, and my gears wore out and rusted....(almost as severe as yours but not quite)

They called me on the phone and admitted they knew that product was inferior but since almost no one complained they had no way of knowing it was/is a problem.  I asked what if anything they were willing to do to help me.........nothing (of course)
http://www.guarddogmolylubricants.com/
That stuff is way better than the Honda crappola, but even though it is water resistant I found it to dry out a tad too much so now I use just a film of the guard dog, and then fill the drive side (female) gear with a grease that is essentially just like that green Belray stuff, only what I buy is a Lucas product.  X-TRA heavy duty high heat, high pressure farm equipment grease and it mixes with the moly and stays on and stays wet and no wear.....Im hooked

The red and tacky grease from Lucas looks like  a new product.....wonder if that is better....anyone try it?
 

[fstsix]

I have been using CV grease on splines and shaft since new, got a flat at 700 miles first week but made it home, i have had the wheel off several times and over 9 years and re greased still looking good. http://www.allraceoil.com/redlinesyntheticcv2.html Water resistant 

[R J]

I use a WATER PROOF wheel bearing grease...     BIGBF even liked it when he saw the old boy apart.

Without going to the shop across town to have a look see, I think it is 'Bel-Ray', it is in a little plastic tub, and we got it at Advance Auto some time back.........

[fudgie]

I have been using Valvoline moly grease for high temp applications. Works good and have had no probs. Water proof also.

[Ricky-D]

I use a WATER PROOF wheel bearing grease...     BIGBF even liked it when he saw the old boy apart.

Without going to the shop across town to have a look see, I think it is 'Bel-Ray', it is in a little plastic tub, and we got it at Advance Auto some time back.........

I agree, a wheel bearing grease is designed to stay put, is fiber-like in action and extremely waterproof.  Good tough grease.

***

[daytona]

So far so good.  I replace all three o-rings each time I take it apart.  Be sure you wait until after the axle is torqued before you tighten the 4 bolts holding the rear differential to the shaft tube.  If you have not done so already, take the u-joint out and check it while you are this far in.  Here is a link to Rattlebars site on how to remove the u-joint.

http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/ujoint.html

This is interesting! The manual says to torque the 4 bolts, then install wheel & axle!  So does the link, you and shoptalk how too, say after! or spline wear could increase! Wonder how many are doing it the correct (your) way. Would it be a good thing to loosen, retorque if it was done wrong?



20.  Loosen the 4 final drive mounting nuts (14mm socket + 1 ½ “ extension) a couple of turns until they are finger loose. This step is critical to achieve proper alignment of the final drive and prevent premature failure of the null!!!!

21.  Start the axle in from the right side a short ways

22.  Lift the wheel into place on the final drive

23.  Push the axle into place by hand and then gently tap it through just flush with the spacer/collar on the left side using a rubber mallet

24.  Carefully spread the brake pads with a large screwdriver

25.  While sliding the brake pads/caliper over the rotor, position the caliper bracket into place

26.  Gently tap the axle the rest of the way through being sure that the axle is lined up with its hole in the swing arm

Note: The following tightening sequence is critical to achieve proper spline alignment!!!

27.  Install the rear brake stopper bolt (14mm) and torque to 51 ft.lb (69Nm)

28.  Install the axle nut (27mm or 1 1/16”) and torque to 81 ft.lb. (110Nm)

29.  Torque the 4 final drive nuts to 47 ft.lb. (64Nm)

30.  Shift the transmission into neutral and turn the rear wheel by hand to check for free rotation

[fstsix]

? 

[mikeb]

I have been using Valvoline moly grease for high temp applications. Works good and have had no probs. Water proof also.

i too switched to an auto moly grease for front disk brakes after taking my bike apart after 10k miles and getting pissed at the rust that built up inside i recleaned the spline and re replaced the seals with new and i bet it will look a lot better i am going to tear it down to replace the hub  the splines are worn and i dont want to to go down mid year  the honda moly 60 grease is a joke

[daytona]

  I stand corrected, depends on what part of the manual you are on. Via the PDF manual...

Note: The following tightening sequence is critical to achieve proper spline alignment!!!
27. Install the rear brake stopper bolt (14mm) and torque to 51 ft.lb (69Nm)
28. Install the axle nut (27mm or 1 1/16”) and torque to 81 ft.lb. (110Nm)
29. Torque the 4 final drive nuts to 47 ft.lb. (64Nm)
30. Shift the transmission into neutral and turn the rear wheel by hand to check for free
rotation
31. Pump the rear brake peddle until pressure returns!!!!!
32. Lift and pull outward on the muffler to install it into the rear hanger
33. Torque the muffler hanger nuts (12mm) to 25 ft.lb. (34Nm)
34. Install the 5 exhaust nuts (front most nut is already partway on) using 10mm socket
on long extension and a 10mm open end box wrench for the hard to reach nuts and
torque to 7 ft.lb. (10Nm) if you can, otherwise tighten by hand being careful not to
over tighten
35. Install the saddle bags and 4 bolts each (8mm)
36. Check for exhaust leaks where you loosened the headers – replace exhaust gaskets
if necessary

[sandy]

Al: It sounds like you've used Honda's paste. Too bad you learned the hard way. As others have said; Bel Ray and Guard Dog is the most used stuff here. I have a Vavoline Durablend (3% paste) and have used it also. All are acceptable. As for the Lucas Xtra stuff: My local Honda service uses the Luas in head bearings when he installs the "All Balls" head bearings. He feels it's better than Bel Ray but he won't experiment on someone's splines due to the customer relationship. I've seen this stuff in his hands as he's packing bearings and it looks superior to everything I've got at home. I might try it on my next tire change. Side note: I've used Bel Ray from 25K till now (110K) and my original splines are perfect.

[Sharkey]

The red and tacky grease from Lucas looks like  a new product.....wonder if that is better....anyone try it?
 

I just picked up two tubes of the Lucas Red and Tacky #2 it was $4.49 a tube at OReilly. I like what I have heard about it from friends, and got it to use on my farm equipment. It is waterproof and fortified with anti sieze(moly). I am going to try it on the splines of the Valk over the winter. Ill let you know how it holds up.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=46&catid=2&loc=show

[Gore]

I've replaced that gear. It's easy.The book makes it sound harder but the whole thing comes out in one piece. Need some Permatex to seal everything up with. Used the books torque numbers.
Did mine this summer. Got about 3500 miles since with no problems.

[Chrisj CMA]

I've replaced that gear. It's easy.The book makes it sound harder but the whole thing comes out in one piece. Need some Permatex to seal everything up with. Used the books torque numbers.
Did mine this summer. Got about 3500 miles since with no problems.

How did you measure/verify gear lash.........and did you need to replace/change out any shims?

[hubcapsc]

I just got of off Pinwalls site.

1) I tend to go with, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, meaning I would rather spend more than gamble on something i cannot see. The pictures of all the final drives they have do not show the splines.

2) I have followed the assembly sequence from the service manual. I am very pleased with the installation as I have gotten good mileage out of my rear bearings this go around. But ultimatly it's on me. I do want to get away from using the Honda moly and try something else.

Pinwall stands behind his stuff... he sent me a great final drive and sent me pictures first when I asked. He also looked around at the
different ones he had and picked a good one from among them...

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~hubcap/d.spline/

But if you can take that thing apart and put it back together right, then that's a good thing too 

You need to look in there every six or eight thousand miles, hard to do if you run a car tire that lasts three times
that long...

Bolting everything back together right (a step apparently documented in a service bulletin, not the Honda manual)
is important too...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Bolting everything back together right (a step apparently documented in a service bulletin, not the Honda manual)
is important too...

-Mike

In the Honda Service Manual.pp 14-8,14-9 (Installation Rear Wheel) the steps are perfect, and it includes loosening the mounting bolts for the final drive case prior to axle torquing.  What is a service bulletin?

[hubcapsc]

Bolting everything back together right (a step apparently documented in a service bulletin, not the Honda manual)
is important too...

-Mike

In the Honda Service Manual.pp 14-8,14-9 (Installation Rear Wheel) the steps are perfect, and it includes loosening the mounting bolts for the final drive case prior to axle torquing.  What is a service bulletin?

I just checked Dag's online copy, you're right - my bad, I'm thinking of something else... a service bulletin is one of those
addendum-to-the-service-manuals that vendors send to their dealer networks after the actual manual has been printed...

"Loosen the final gear case mounting nuts to ease axle installation and to assure proper driven flange alignment..."

If one didn't read the above carefully one might be tempted to say "meh... the axel went in easy", but one probably wouldn't say
"meh... who cares if the flange is aligned..."

-Mike "There's a good project for Dag - collect all the real Valkyrie service bulletins!"

[X Ring]

From Page 12-19, Final Drive of the Valkyrie Shop Manual:

Pack 1 g (0.04 oz) of molybdenum disulfide grease into the
drive shaft spline.
Insert the final drive assembly into the swingarm and align the
splines with the universal joint by holding the swingarm.
Temporarily install the gear case mounting nuts and shock
absorber lower rrounting bolt.
Tighten the gear case mounting nut to the specified torque.
TORQUE: 64 N.m (6.5 kgf m, 47 lb ft)
Install the rear wheel (page 14-8)

Then Page 14-8 Rear Wheel/Suspension

INSTALLATION
Install the side collar
Install the rear brake caliper in position, and insert the rear
axle through the final gear case. wheel hub, side collar, brake
caliper and swingarm.
Apply 3 g (0.71 oz) of molybdenum disulfide paste to the
final driven flange splines.
Apply 1 - 2 g (0.04 - 0.07 oz) of molybdenum disulfide pasre
to the joint surface of the final gear case O-ring guide and
driven flange.
Loosen the final gear case mounting nuts to ease axle installation
and to assure proper driven flange alignment.
Engage the rear wheel with the final gear case, making sure
that the splines are correctly aligned.
Install and tighten the rear brake caliper stopper bolt.
TORQUE: 69 N*m (7.0 kgf m, 51 lb ft)
Install and tighten the axle nut to the specified torque.
TORQUE: 130 N-m (7 1.2 kgf-rn, 81 1W-ft)
Tighten the final gear case mounting nuts to the specified
torque.
TORQUE: 64 Nmm (6.5 kgfarn, 47 lb-ft)

You can follow the factory's instructions for replacing the Final Drive Unit and screw up because you didn't realize the FDU's nuts must be loose to insure proper alignment of the driven flange to the female portion of the ring gear and missed the instructions to loosen them in among the o ring and driven flange lubrications requirements.

I recommend everyone take a black magic marker and crossout the instructions to torque the FDU's nuts on page 12-19.

Marty