Wireless phones

[scooperhsd]

On the CBS Morning News Sunday, April 19, they had a story on using Bluetooth phones to track if you have been in contact with someone who has been positive with the Covid 19 coronavirus. All this poll is doing is asking what your wireless phone has for Bluetooth.

I'm allowing a maximum of 10 votes per respondent - use these like 1 response for you, one for your S.O., and 1 each for kids / others in the household (i.e. 1 response per phone). This poll will run for 14 days.

Just because you have a flip phone doesn't mean it doesn't have Bluetooth. If you're not sure, check it out.

I will post another poll on how willing you would be to be tracked in this fashion.

For transparency, I will be posting 3 responses for 3 wireless phones, 2 Androids and one flip phone with bluetooth.

Edit - it seems you can only vote once, so put as many as you can on one vote

[hubcapsc]

Bluetooth is turned off on my iphone and laptop... I turned it on
recently on my iphone to "airdrop" some files to another
iphone user - it kept us "socially distant"  ... but I keep it
turned off unless in use... there's a million stories about
bluetooth and security/privacy...

-Mike

[pais]

Like Mike, my bluetooth is always off unless I need it. Primarily because of what Hubcapsc said and saves on battery life.  I've used an Iphone for years, fine for me. Recently with my new job promotion, I've been issued a Android type phone. It is fine as well just took a little gettin used to. The Android bluetooth is always off as well, automatically.

[John Schmidt]

Same here, Bluetooth off all the time except when i go to the gym. There I use my ear buds to listen to music while working out and taking a call once in a great while. Lets me leave the phone locked up and dialed in to the gym's WIFI.

[Bighead]

Same here Bluetooth off unless I need it.

[Serk]

I've done some preliminary reading on the proposed solution of tracking contact so that if someone tests positive they can trace back and notify people that they've been in contact with, and on my first reading I actually...... like the concept.

The way it's laid out is that your phone would broadcast a low power randomized code every few minutes. Anyone near you will receive that random code and also broadcast their own.

Your phone would generate a new random code every 15 minutes.

If a person later tests positive, they can trace back the combination of your code at that time with the other person's code at that time to notify them, but it makes actual Big Brother level of tracking people's general movements very difficult.

Also, it does not utilize any GPS or other geo-location services, just "Person X was near Person Y at this time".....

I'll need to dig a little deeper, but I'm actually pretty okay with the concept, and will opt in once it's available, unless I find any major red flags in the setup.

[hubcapsc]

"Person X was near Person Y at this time"

Your were with who? ! ? ! I thought you were at the hardware store! ! !

-Mike 

[cookiedough]

"Person X was near Person Y at this time"

Your were with who? ! ? ! I thought you were at the hardware store! ! !

-Mike 

yah, can see marriages all over filing for divorce....   

wife now tells me have to stay 6 feet apart at ALL times..............   

[Serk]

"Person X was near Person Y at this time"

Your were with who? ! ? ! I thought you were at the hardware store! ! !

-Mike 

From my understand, it's not even that granular. All it would know is that you were within low power Bluetooth range of someone that tested positive within their likely contagious period.

But, since I've got full permission from the spousal unit to take a mistress if I like, I'm not too worried about the possible scenario as presented... 

[cookiedough]

i am only one left using a 5 year old android my 2 kids in college and wife use newer apple iphones.

apple has some neat features that android does not have as long as all use apple iphones to stay in contact and do 'find a friend'  but all have to agree to allow each other to see where you are at on each others apple phones.  

my kids like it so does the wife say if meeting up somewhere you can track each others iphones thru the apple app to see where they are at, pretty neat feature.    vs. having to call or text them to find out where they are at distracting them while driving.  

[Serk]

i am only one left using a 5 year old android my 2 kids in college and wife use newer apple iphones.

apple has some neat features that android does not have as long as all use apple iphones to stay in contact and do 'find a friend'  but all have to agree to allow each other to see where you are at on each others apple phones.  

my kids like it so does the wife say if meeting up somewhere you can track each others iphones thru the apple app to see where they are at, pretty neat feature.    vs. having to call or text them to find out where they are at distracting them while driving.  

Life360 does something similar, but is available for both platforms as well as a web page.....

[scooperhsd]

I've done some preliminary reading on the proposed solution of tracking contact so that if someone tests positive they can trace back and notify people that they've been in contact with, and on my first reading I actually...... like the concept.

The way it's laid out is that your phone would broadcast a low power randomized code every few minutes. Anyone near you will receive that random code and also broadcast their own.

Your phone would generate a new random code every 15 minutes.

If a person later tests positive, they can trace back the combination of your code at that time with the other person's code at that time to notify them, but it makes actual Big Brother level of tracking people's general movements very difficult.

Also, it does not utilize any GPS or other geo-location services, just "Person X was near Person Y at this time".....

I'll need to dig a little deeper, but I'm actually pretty okay with the concept, and will opt in once it's available, unless I find any major red flags in the setup.

Thanks for explaining it better than I did. I'm wondering why they don't want to use GPS data, though (other than being a battery killer). Maybe without the GPS data they think they can get more buy in .

[Serk]

Thanks for explaining it better than I did. I'm wondering why they don't want to use GPS data, though (other than being a battery killer). Maybe without the GPS data they think they can get more buy in .

Yup, figuring without geo-locating more people might be willing to use it plus, it's really not necessary. WHERE you got close to someone that's contagious isn't nearly as important as simply knowing that you did.

[3fan4life]

I've done some preliminary reading on the proposed solution of tracking contact so that if someone tests positive they can trace back and notify people that they've been in contact with, and on my first reading I actually...... like the concept.

The way it's laid out is that your phone would broadcast a low power randomized code every few minutes. Anyone near you will receive that random code and also broadcast their own.

Your phone would generate a new random code every 15 minutes.

If a person later tests positive, they can trace back the combination of your code at that time with the other person's code at that time to notify them, but it makes actual Big Brother level of tracking people's general movements very difficult.

Also, it does not utilize any GPS or other geo-location services, just "Person X was near Person Y at this time".....

I'll need to dig a little deeper, but I'm actually pretty okay with the concept, and will opt in once it's available, unless I find any major red flags in the setup.

Initially, I was against it because of Big Brother, 1984 is the scariest book that I have ever read.

But, when it comes to computer technology you my friend are much more knowledgeable than I.

If you ultimately determine that this is OK, I'm in.

[Robert]

Thanks for explaining it better than I did. I'm wondering why they don't want to use GPS data, though (other than being a battery killer). Maybe without the GPS data they think they can get more buy in .

Yup, figuring without geo-locating more people might be willing to use it plus, it's really not necessary. WHERE you got close to someone that's contagious isn't nearly as important as simply knowing that you did.

Wow I am surprised, why would it be necessary to know you were close to someone with Covid? What about if they touched the surface and you touch that same surface.

Baby steps in getting what they want, how many apps automatically track geo location without consent. Not to mention what happens when 5G comes into play.

[F6Dave]

I wonder how the app handles motorists.  If you pair your phone with something in a busy place like a store or office, you'll often see a dozen or more nearby devices.  So, if an infected person drives down the road, he could be in close proximity (BT range) to hundreds of other motorists and pedestrians in just a few minutes.  Would they all need to quarantine for 14 days? 

[scooperhsd]

Thanks for explaining it better than I did. I'm wondering why they don't want to use GPS data, though (other than being a battery killer). Maybe without the GPS data they think they can get more buy in .

Yup, figuring without geo-locating more people might be willing to use it plus, it's really not necessary. WHERE you got close to someone that's contagious isn't nearly as important as simply knowing that you did.

Baby steps in getting what they want, how many apps automatically track geo location without consent. Not to mention what happens when 5G comes into play.

Robert, if you're THAT paranoid, why do you carry a cell phone (of any type) at all ? The cell carriers (and LEOs) can have what tower you're on in about 2 seconds (on the outside). If your within range of 2, they can have you narrowed down to the overlap area in about 15- 30 seconds. The more towers, the closer they can narrow you're location down.

The above paragraph is just the crudest form available. Add signal strength and /or direction - they can get pretty dang close (I was trained to track submarines on passive bearing information only while I was in the Navy) - adding the cell phone equipment equivalent of "ping" and you can be tracked  within 2 yards. All this without having location information turned on in YOUR phone - your cell phone just needs to be powered up. AND this can be done with 1, 1x, 2g, 3g, 4g as well as 5g service (yes the crime shows on TV are NOT exaggerating) .

What the Covid 19 tracker is doing is not even this sophisticated - it simply uses Bluetooth (a really close range wireless network - in Motorcycle intercoms it has been pushed to a half mile), and exchanges anominized tokens and hold them for 14 days (on a last 14 days basis) - it's not even storing location information. If one of the parties reports a positive, it can notify you that you have been in contact with someone.(That's going to be an intensive computing issue in itself - just wading through all that data). (yes , I can see a supercomputer with several mainframes feeding it data).

Now let's throw in a joker - suppose someone decides he's going to have some fun and report that they're positive (even if they're not).

[Willow]

... why would it be necessary to know you were close to someone with Covid? What about if they touched the surface and you touch that same surface.
...

And this /\ /\ is the real point.  The whole thrust of this COVID-19 social separation mitigation plan has been infused with flawed understanding of how a virus is transmitted and the powers have used this in their restrictions.

Many of the measures dictated have been not so much to limit the spread of the virus as to simply answer the public's demand.  Reaction to COVID-19 is highly politicized.

[carolinarider09]

... why would it be necessary to know you were close to someone with Covid? What about if they touched the surface and you touch that same surface.
...

And this /\ /\ is the real point.  The whole thrust of this COVID-19 social separation mitigation plan has been infused with flawed understanding of how a virus is transmitted and the powers have used this in their restrictions.

Many of the measures dictated have been not so much to limit the spread of the virus as to simply answer the public's demand.  Reaction to COVID-19 is highly politicized.

An excellent point and one i have failed to consider.  I mean I was aware of the way it is transmitted, we hear about it every day, but failed to take contact into account.

Therefore, contact tracing is just a feel good kind of thing.  It might help and it might not.  If someone touched the lamp post at 1135 after they had coughed into their hand and I wondered by and touched that same place two hours later, I guess contact tracing might show the other person was there and therefore I could pick it up.

But I would have to have my phone on all the time with the App running all the time as I traveled/walked through an area to see if anyone with Corona-19 had passed though the area. 

Is that not the essence of 1984 and Big Brother?   Do we really want to go down that road?

Just in case you did not remember the book,  It was by George Orwell published in 1949. 

I don't usually like referencing Wikipedia but, in this case, I think its ok.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_%28Nineteen_Eighty-Four%29

[Serk]

In theory if you're not needlessly touching things, not touching your face, and washing/sanitizing your hands regularly the main transmission method while in public would be from being too close to someone that's actively contagious and taking in their infected droplets, thus the theory of contact tracing.

And even pre-COVID-19 what's really going on would make George Orwell blush. But that's a topic for another day.

[scooperhsd]

Let's say you're a fugitive (say you escaped from prison). The LAST thing you want to do is turn on a cell phone unnecesarily - as I pointed out - the authorities can get a rough location quick. Ideally, you would use a new burner phone for each conversation, if not look for payphones (good luck finding them anymore) / other landlines. I also would have a schedule worked out on when and who / what number you would call (to keep the authorities guessing).

[F6Dave]

Our cell phone movements are already used to calculate and display the color coded highway speed data shown on all the map apps like Google, Bing, MapQuest, etc.  Who knows what else they're using that for.

[F6Dave]

After enough time passes to figure this virus out, it will be interesting to see how it really gets transmitted.  I won't be surprised if the predominant method of transmission is through the air and not via surfaces.  I read that a church in Washington had a choir practice in February.  Everyone brought their own sheet music, and nobody shook hands or hugged.  A few weeks later 45 of the 60 attendees tested positive.

[Willow]

After enough time passes to figure this virus out, it will be interesting to see how it really gets transmitted.  I won't be surprised if the predominant method of transmission is through the air and not via surfaces.  I read that a church in Washington had a choir practice in February.  Everyone brought their own sheet music, and nobody shook hands or hugged.  A few weeks later 45 of the 60 attendees tested positive.

Through the air is a bit overstated.  It is transmitted as is any other virus.  The primary means indeed is mouth to hand to mouth with the possible assistance of intervening surfaces.  it can be transmitted otherwise thru water droplets containing virus pushed out an infected person's mouth.  Those droplets can be breathed but most often those droplets settle to a surface where the virus may be picked up by someone touching that surface with his hand.  Those droplets are evicted into the atmosphere when someone coughs, sneezes or otherwise forces a large volume out the mouth as is done by yelling or singing loudly.  Close proximity will increase the otherwise rare chance of someone breathing the droplets.  Being in an enclosed space such as a hospital room also will increase the volume of those droplets in the air. 

[F6Dave]

After enough time passes to figure this virus out, it will be interesting to see how it really gets transmitted.  I won't be surprised if the predominant method of transmission is through the air and not via surfaces.  I read that a church in Washington had a choir practice in February.  Everyone brought their own sheet music, and nobody shook hands or hugged.  A few weeks later 45 of the 60 attendees tested positive.

Through the air is a bit overstated.  It is transmitted as is any other virus.  The primary means indeed is mouth to hand to mouth with the possible assistance of intervening surfaces.  it can be transmitted otherwise thru water droplets containing virus pushed out an infected person's mouth.  Those droplets can be breathed but most often those droplets settle to a surface where the virus may be picked up by someone touching that surface with his hand.  Those droplets are evicted into the atmosphere when someone coughs, sneezes or otherwise forces a large volume out the mouth as is done by yelling or singing loudly.  Close proximity will increase the otherwise rare chance of someone breathing the droplets.  Being in an enclosed space such as a hospital room also will increase the volume of those droplets in the air.  

45 out of 60 becoming infected at a single choir practice sounds like more than a rare chance!  The article stated all attendees went out of their way to avoid touching anyone or anything, and were washing their hands frequently.  Back then we were being told the primary mode of transmission was surfaces, and only medical personnel needed to wear masks.  Of course we're getting much different advice now.  Like I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out as we learn more and more.

It's also worth mentioning that virus transmission methods vary a lot.  AIDS is transmitted via blood and semen.  Ebola is transmitted via bodily fluids, and can trick the skin into absorbing it, which is pretty scary.  Smallpox is also transmitted through bodily fluids.

I have a relative who is an EE for a China based company.  Until late last year he spent a lot of time there.  Recently, when talking with associates in China they warned him to wear a mask WHENEVER he left his home.

[Robert]

Robert, if you're THAT paranoid, why do you carry a cell phone (of any type) at all ? The cell carriers (and LEOs) can have what tower you're on in about 2 seconds (on the outside). If your within range of 2, they can have you narrowed down to the overlap area in about 15- 30 seconds. The more towers, the closer they can narrow you're location down.

I am not paranoid its a mental condition that is an irrational fear. The cell phone issue and the fact that they can turn it on at will, listen at will, track location at will, and when government people want to know no one is listening they go into a SCIF, so it is not a fear its a fact, one that I am not afraid of.

My real question to you is why do they want this, when it does really no good, why is it suggested?

To me this is more about focus of attention, keeping fear going and making people think of this. So its more about programing than anything effective, it is a form of conditioning.

There are a couple of things I did not have answers to like social distancing, and all the positive tests for Covid 19 that people show no symptoms. This video of this dr answered some that I need to research. One was the positive test for Covid from people that dont exhibit signs and he says that people who have had the flu vaccine do test positive for Covid.

 Why did the previous admin give millions to a Chinese lab when they knew what they were doing there with viruses testing that was outlawed in the US and China up until 2005 never had a level 4 bio lab.

Rashid A. Buttar, graduated from Washington University with a double major in Biology and Theology,before attending medical school at the University of Osteopathic Medicine and Health Sciences, College of Medicine and Surgery.

EXCLUSIVE: Dr. Rashid Buttar BLASTS Gates, Fauci, EXPOSES Fake Pandemic Numbers As Economy Collapses
https://youtu.be/WGbYHJcMbz8

No one has established anyone died of Covid 19 by the normal testing methods
https://youtu.be/WGbYHJcMbz8?t=633

Is Fauci directly involved and responsible for this outbreak.
https://youtu.be/WGbYHJcMbz8?t=739


BTW this is a great informative article about the ability of some stores using Bluetooth to read your phone, track buying habits and even target ads to you, all courtesy of Blue Tooth

In Stores, Secret Surveillance Tracks Your Every Move As you shop, “beacons” are watching you, using hidden technology in your
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html

[scooperhsd]

Actually - "contact tracking " is a principle of public health in dealing  with epidemic / pandemic situations. So, that is where this tracking idea is coming from. And no, I'm not an expert nor have I done any serious reading of the subject to make any comment on it or its validity. It certainly sounds reasonable enough to me.