the fly in the ointment

[rocketray]

google up Bill Gates and Fauci.....they have let some 30k people die needlessly here in the U.S. with holding the arthritis/antimalaria drugs..look at their agenda

[3fan4life]

google up Bill Gates and Fauci.....they have let some 30k people die needlessly here in the U.S. with holding the arthritis/antimalaria drugs..look at their agenda

All anyone that wants to know the truth has to do is "Follow The Money".

Look and see who receives big kickbacks from Big Pharma once a "Miracle" drug is found.


There is no valid reason to withhold the  Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax and Zinc cocktail from people diagnosed with Covid-19.

The best reason that the CDC has offered up is that it isn't a "Proven" treatment.

Well guess what, NOTHING is a "Proven" treatment for Covid-19.

There is however good evidence that the cocktail reduces the symptoms and the severity in some patients.

And all three drugs are proven drugs that have been around for decades.

Which is the problem, drugs that have been around long enough to be available in generic form can't command the prices that a NEW, MIRACLE drug can.

A "Miracle" drug for Covid-19 would easily make Billions of $$ for the company hawking it, maybe even Trillions of $$.

The Generic drug cocktail would only net them a paltry $100 million or so.

 

[hubcapsc]

"AstraZeneca teams up with Oxford University"

As I understand it they are already in production of a
promising vaccine. It will be a while before it is tested
enough to use on people, but they have reason to
believe it will be good. When/if it tests "good" in
a few months it will be available immediately.
AstraZeneca sez they will sell it "at cost" while
the pandemic is in effect.

-Mike

[Oss]

 They will never let us win unless we change the rules


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fvignette.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fpeanuts%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fca%2FRun_Up_Kick_that_Ball_Charlie_Brown.gif%2Frevision%2Flatest%2Fscale-to-width-down%2F340%3Fcb%3D20181111154549&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpeanuts.fandom.com%2Fwiki%2FFootball_gag&tbnid=t23EginJE7lInM&vet=12ahUKEwjL2aWuxZPpAhWdC98KHSF3BOMQMygKegUIARDAAg..i&docid=pFRXwo739uGKgM&w=340&h=223&q=gif%20of%20charlie%20brown%20kicking%20football&ved=2ahUKEwjL2aWuxZPpAhWdC98KHSF3BOMQMygKegUIARDAAg

[98valk]

The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

“In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”

Nothing closed. Schools stayed open. All businesses did too. You could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked six months later.

Stock markets didn’t crash. Congress passed no legislation. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Not a single governor acted to enforce social distancing, curve flattening (even though hundreds of thousands of people were hospitalized), or banning of crowds. No mothers were arrested for taking their kids to other homes. No surfers were arrested. No daycares were shut even though there were more infant deaths with this virus than the one we are experiencing now. There were no suicides, no unemployment, no drug overdoses.

Media covered the pandemic but it never became a big issue.

Was the difference that we have mass media invading our lives with endless notifications blowing up in our pockets? Was there some change in philosophy such that we now think politics is responsible for all existing aspects of life? Was there a political element here in that the media blew this wildly out of proportion as revenge against Trump and his deplorables? Or did our excessive adoration of predictive modelling get out of control to the point that we let a physicist with ridiculous models frighten the world’s governments into violating the human rights of billions of people?

[carolinarider09]

I have not validated the above statement 98valk made, but it has a reasonable "ring" of truth regarding the 1968 Flu. 

This I also find reasonable.

"Was the difference that we have mass media invading our lives with endless notifications blowing up in our pockets? Was there some change in philosophy such that we now think politics is responsible for all existing aspects of life? Was there a political element here in that the media blew this wildly out of proportion as revenge against Trump and his deplorables? Or did our excessive adoration of predictive modelling get out of control to the point that we let a physicist with ridiculous models frighten the world’s governments into violating the human rights of billions of people?"

I have read and seen numbers articles about Dr. Fauci and his links to drug patents. 

I think someone told the President, someone who the right "credientals", that a Pandemic was coming and millions would die, based on the models.  No one knew anything about the disease, only what might have leaked from Chinese officials and some rumors from inside that country. 

When you are faced with a new, previously un-faced issue, in this case a medical issue, your first response is to consult the experts and take some action to protect your people (if you are a CEO, its protect your workers and stockholders, but its the same for the President). 

Now, most good CEOs know and understand that the data and suggestions from a lot of experts is biased.  It is up to the CEO to determine how much bias there is, and why. 

But sometimes, you just have to take some steps to save lives and then, in hindsight, try and mitigate damages that were not intended.   I think we are there. 

What we also know is that local governments have take the opportunity to exercise unprecedented power and limit rights.  That will be dealt with, I believe.

[98valk]

I have not validated the above statement 98valk made, but it has a reasonable "ring" of truth regarding the 1968 Flu.  

This I also find reasonable.

"Was the difference that we have mass media invading our lives with endless notifications blowing up in our pockets? Was there some change in philosophy such that we now think politics is responsible for all existing aspects of life? Was there a political element here in that the media blew this wildly out of proportion as revenge against Trump and his deplorables? Or did our excessive adoration of predictive modelling get out of control to the point that we let a physicist with ridiculous models frighten the world’s governments into violating the human rights of billions of people?"

I have read and seen numbers articles about Dr. Fauci and his links to drug patents.  

I think someone told the President, someone who the right "credientals", that a Pandemic was coming and millions would die, based on the models.  No one knew anything about the disease, only what might have leaked from Chinese officials and some rumors from inside that country.  

When you are faced with a new, previously un-faced issue, in this case a medical issue, your first response is to consult the experts and take some action to protect your people (if you are a CEO, its protect your workers and stockholders, but its the same for the President).  

Now, most good CEOs know and understand that the data and suggestions from a lot of experts is biased.  It is up to the CEO to determine how much bias there is, and why.  

But sometimes, you just have to take some steps to save lives and then, in hindsight, try and mitigate damages that were not intended.   I think we are there.  

What we also know is that local governments have take the opportunity to exercise unprecedented power and limit rights.  That will be dealt with, I believe.

working on peoples fears, has made the unelected medical community and many medical people another branch of the government. a very dangerous prospect.

[Robert]

They will never let us win unless we change the rules


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fvignette.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fpeanuts%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fca%2FRun_Up_Kick_that_Ball_Charlie_Brown.gif%2Frevision%2Flatest%2Fscale-to-width-down%2F340%3Fcb%3D20181111154549&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpeanuts.fandom.com%2Fwiki%2FFootball_gag&tbnid=t23EginJE7lInM&vet=12ahUKEwjL2aWuxZPpAhWdC98KHSF3BOMQMygKegUIARDAAg..i&docid=pFRXwo739uGKgM&w=340&h=223&q=gif%20of%20charlie%20brown%20kicking%20football&ved=2ahUKEwjL2aWuxZPpAhWdC98KHSF3BOMQMygKegUIARDAAg

  Very appropriate



Bill Gates and Fauci knew more than most experts and they have said NOTHING helpful.

[carolinarider09]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

And now, we have the next step.  I cannot easily find the reference but you can if you look for it and its been reported in various news networks (maybe even on this forum).

New York City will implement the following (Names may not be correct, so I have paraphrased).

Social Distancing  Police (well not police more like monitors).  If you wish to go to a park in New York City (I am sure there are hour limitations but don't know what they are), you will be monitored to ensure that you are maintaining mandated Social Distancing.  So, you and your wife or your significant other and/or children go to the park.  You, as a family, walk as you would in your own backyard, which is closer than six feet per social distancing mandate.  The Social Distancing Monitors approach and tell you that you are violating the Social Distancing requirements.  You explain that you are a family.  The Social Distancing Monitor then may let you proceed or, more likely, ask you to show proof you are a family (Can you say "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS PLEASE").  Of course your underage children have no such documentation and then you are placed in a quandary by the Social Distancing Monitor.  

Contact Monitors.  If I remember reading this correctly, the intent is that for every new case of the Virus, the Contact Monitors will be required, by their mandate, to track down where you have been, who you have been in contact with and when you were in contact.  Give the Virus may take days, if not weeks, to become evident to a normally healthy individual, this will require the Contact Monitors to monitor your movements for the last two weeks.   Now we know that there are all kinds of cameras on the streets so the government may have the tools necessary, at their disposal, using facial recognition, to know/find out where you were when (sometimes its hard for me to remember where I was last Tuesday for instance).  

Now that they know where you were and when, they will look up everyone you could have possibly come in contact with.  This could also be done with facial recognition software.  Now, they will take this information and check each person that you can in contact with (less than six feet).  And next, they will interview that person, ask questions, where did you go next.  Again widening the scope of interactions in an otherwise free society.

Now the contact monitoring process is ripe for a software developer (maybe it already exists) so that all you have to do is to take the digital images, run it agains a database (DMV, Pasports, ect) put in the initial contact person and it will do it all for you and spit out the names of those you were in contact with and who each one of them was in contact with (with times and exact locations).  Can you say "Big Brother".  

These two activities are not figments of my imagination.  They are works in progress in New York City.

[Bighead]

I will just leave this here. Believe it if you want or not but something to think about. Hmmmm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_qH6SMi3Y

[3fan4life]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

And now, we have the next step.  I cannot easily find the reference but you can if you look for it and its been reported in various news networks (maybe even on this forum).

New York City will implement the following (Names may not be correct, so I have paraphrased).

Social Distancing  Police (well not police more like monitors).  If you wish to go to a park in New York City (I am sure there are hour limitations but don't know what they are), you will be monitored to ensure that you are maintaining mandated Social Distancing.  So, you and your wife or your significant other and/or children go to the park.  You, as a family, walk as you would in your own backyard, which is closer than six feet per social distancing mandate.  The Social Distancing Monitors approach and tell you that you are violating the Social Distancing requirements.  You explain that you are a family.  The Social Distancing Monitor then may let you proceed or, more likely, ask you to show proof you are a family (Can you say "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS PLEASE").  Of course your underage children have no such documentation and then you are placed in a quandary by the Social Distancing Monitor.  

Contact Monitors.  If I remember reading this correctly, the intent is that for every new case of the Virus, the Contact Monitors will be required, by their mandate, to track down where you have been, who you have been in contact with and when you were in contact.  Give the Virus may take days, if not weeks, to become evident to a normally healthy individual, this will require the Contact Monitors to monitor your movements for the last two weeks.   Now we know that there are all kinds of cameras on the streets so the government may have the tools necessary, at their disposal, using facial recognition, to know/find out where you were when (sometimes its hard for me to remember where I was last Tuesday for instance).  

Now that they know where you were and when, they will look up everyone you could have possibly come in contact with.  This could also be done with facial recognition software.  Now, they will take this information and check each person that you can in contact with (less than six feet).  And next, they will interview that person, ask questions, where did you go next.  Again widening the scope of interactions in an otherwise free society.

Now the contact monitoring process is ripe for a software developer (maybe it already exists) so that all you have to do is to take the digital images, run it agains a database (DMV, Pasports, ect) put in the initial contact person and it will do it all for you and spit out the names of those you were in contact with and who each one of them was in contact with (with times and exact locations).  Can you say "Big Brother".  

These two activities are not figments of my imagination.  They are works in progress in New York City.

As I have said before, 1984 is the scariest book that I ever read.

[Valkorado]

I will just leave this here. Believe it if you want or not but something to think about. Hmmmm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_qH6SMi3Y

Interesting fo sho.  If true he's a lobster in a rolling boil.  Time will tell...

[ridingron]

I think the 2030 curve was getting flattened by the Dems losing the 2016 presidential election. So, here we are. Gotta get back on track.

[carolinarider09]

Two things. 

First, regarding "Big Brother" I was in error in that New York City will not be able to do tracing using facial recognition.  Mainly because I expect there will be many, if not all, people wearing masks.  So, it will have to be with the use of Cell Phones.  This is already being done, or instigated in Australia.

"SYDNEY — A country that cherishes disrespect for authority has shown remarkable enthusiasm for a government tool designed to stop the novel coronavirus from spreading by monitoring millions of Australians through their cellphones.

On Sunday, the Australian government launched the COVIDSafe cellphone application. Using Bluetooth sensors, the program is designed to track people who come into contact with an infected person so that potential carriers can be identified and isolated.

Health officials said they had hoped 1 million people would download the app in the first five days.

It took 24 hours."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/australians-toss-aside-privacy-concerns-in-rush-to-sign-up-for-virus-tracking-phone-app/2020/04/29/9a67ae88-89dd-11ea-80df-d24b35a568ae_story.html

Second:  Fact Check.

98Valk mentioned the over 100,000 deaths in 1968 from Influenza A (H3N2).  So, I did a fact check, just to validate the statement.   Since I was in U. S. Navy at the time and I am sure I would have remembered it if we had to take drastic actions to mitigate the spread.  I was living in a barracks at the time in or near Great Lakes, IL. A quote from the CDC (and you probably know how much I trust the CDC). 

"The 1968 pandemic was caused by an influenza A (H3N2) virus comprised of two genes from an avian influenza A virus, including a new H3 hemagglutinin, but also contained the N2 neuraminidase from the 1957 H2N2 virus. It was first noted in the United States in September 1968. The estimated number of deaths was 1 million worldwide and about 100,000 in the United States. Most excess deaths were in people 65 years and older. The H3N2 virus continues to circulate worldwide as a seasonal influenza A virus. Seasonal H3N2 viruses, which are associated with severe illness in older people, undergo regular antigenic drift."

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html 

What is the difference between the 1968 Pandemic and today's Pandemic? 

100,000 US deaths (US population at that time was 200,000,000). The math, the percentage of deaths vs population was .05%.  For comparison, with today's population, and the same percentage of deaths, that would equal 165,000 deaths in the US. 

[carolinarider09]

Again, I preface this information with my lack of trust with CDC information.  But I wanted to check to see what the current number of deaths that were attributed to COVID-19 in the US.  The second hit I got (using my favorite search engine, DuckDuckGo) was from the CDC website.

So, I looked, expecting to see the +65,000 number associated with COVID-19 deaths.  Lo and behold the first column in the CDC's report was for COVID-19 deaths and the number shown was 37,308.  WHAT!!!!!

What happened to the 65,000 plus number we have been seeing????? 

The website link is below but, here are the numbers  (and yes there is a caveat about delays in reporting).
This is the data starting with February 1, 2020 through April 25, 2020

COVID-19                                            37,308
All Deaths                                          719,438
Pneumonia Deaths                                64,382
Deaths with Pneumonia and COVID-19   16,564
Influenza Deaths                                    5,846

And the final column:

Deaths with Pneumonia, Influenza, or COVID-19   -  90,166

Again the time frame is between February 1, 2020 and April 25, 2020

Caveat from the CDC Website

"The provisional counts for coronavirus disease (COVID-19) deaths are based on a current flow of mortality data in the National Vital Statistics System. National provisional counts include deaths occurring within the 50 states and the District of Columbia that have been received and coded as of the date specified. It is important to note that it can take several weeks for death records to be submitted to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), processed, coded, and tabulated"

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

[Valkorado]

I'm certainly not going to say all the numbers are spot on,  or even legitimate.  We should remember they are still on the rise, and will know when it's  "over" and tallying has stopped.   Even then the numbers will be debated for many years to come...

C19 doesn't kill in itself.   I do think it's reasonable to assume that  IF (big, bolded if)  - -  when it's all said and done - - the final numbers reveal a significantly higher number of pneumonia deaths have occurred during the virus' run,  we can assume the majority of those deaths were due to COVID.   Very likely the same for deaths due to kidney failure,  which is another big cause.   Maybe even to a lesser degree for heart failure and stroke, which are also documented causes of death for patients.  

Again,  society must open up so we can attempt to jump start our economy.   That said,  C19 is not a "good"  or benign virus by any means.

[carolinarider09]

I can only give you the "numbers" officially reported from the CDC. 

There are many corollaries to the statement that "COVID-19" does not itself kill.   But the CDC's report, again if you believe them, has the deaths specifically attributed to COVID-19 at the less than 40,000 number. 

I don't remember seeing a death attributed to being overweight on a death certificate but it enhances many other bodily issues and functions that can cause death. 

So, a death that is attributed to heart failure in a patient that was seriously overweight, would be heart failure, not being overweight. 

Does having bad eyesight and failing to wear your glasses while driving and thereby having an accident have a cause of death as bad eyesight?   No it will not. It will be attributed to some "trauma" associated with the accident. 

Point is, if you believe the CDC website, the deaths directly attributed to COVID-19 is less than 40,000.  Again that is the CDC and there is a lag in deaths being reported as they say in their website.

[Valkorado]

Good points!    

Still  IF when it's over the pnuemonia deaths are significantly higher than an "average" year, they could be C19 related.  

At least it would make me open to that possibility...

Before is "over"  the numbers don't mean much.   Even after its "over"  all numbers will really show is that the ChiComs are responsible for a considerable amount of unnecessary suffering and death.

[carolinarider09]

WOODSTOCK Summer 1969

I had forgotten about Woodstock, summer of 1969.  I was at sea or in port being stationed on the USS Wasp (CVS-13) before being sent to Nuc Power School for submarine service. 

In case you forgot...........  In the middle of the 1968 -1969 Pandemic... 100,000 people died.... and...

WOODSTOCK   Summer 1969 No Social Distancing!!!!!!

https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

And in case you were too young.   Just one look. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdsRWhyH30

[Valkorado]

WOODSTOCK   Summer 1969 No Social Distancing!!!!!!
Groovy,  man!    

Could be that's partially why  100,000 Americans died from  Hong Kong  flu that year!

EDIT: I found this article very informative.

Did Woodstock Occur During a Pandemic as Lethal as COVID-19?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/woodstock-occur-during-pandemic/

[carolinarider09]

"Could be that's partially why  100,000 Americans died from  Hong Kong  flu that year! "

Nope.  Not a chance.   

Do you know why???????   90% of the deaths (I would have to look up the number to be sure) were 65 and above.

And,,,,, sunlight and UV rays kill the virus.   And if look at videos of the event there was lots of exposure to UV light. 

The point is, 1968 -1969 Pandemic, we did nothing different.   We lived our lives, no lock down, no limitations of social freedoms.  It was life.  Life brings challenges.  We did not have millions un-employed. 

Were we stronger then, more freedom loving people in our 20's????  Maybe.  Freedom is special, and you constantly have to be on the lookout for those that want to take it. 

50 years later (and almost exactly 50 years later, a half century) a similar situation comes up and its OMG, shutdown, hide, social distance, Home or Work.   

[Valkorado]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/woodstock-occur-during-pandemic/

Four or five posts up I wrote,  "Again,  society must open up so we can attempt to jump start our economy".   Not the first time I've expressed that view.

I've also written that it is a serious, novel virus and it hasn't run its first wave course of the year yet.

I stand by those statements.