If you are a small Landlord in NYC you are f&*ked

[Oss]

truly and well

By imperial edict evictions are on hold at least thru august 20

That means if you have a squatter, and it took you 7 months to get a judgment the city marshal can not even make an application to get a warrant (takes 6 weeks minimum to do something ministerial that should take 5 seconds) because it is nyc  That eviction will not take place till October at the earliest while you get $hit for $  Can not even FILE a case

So meanwhile while NYC is stealing your rent money, the squatter is paying no utilities (you have to provide all essential services or be fined 500 a day 1st day 1000 a day after that
You also have to pay the mortgage your crazy real estate tax and insane water bill

This is the definition of denial of due process and unconstitutional taking

I am trying to figure out how and where to bring an article 78 or mandamus proceeding which will lose but at least I will get the message out to the masses.  Jess any ideas as I have 250 starving small landlords, mostly 1st and 2nd generation americans who were working 2 jobs

[scooperhsd]

Just F*** it and let the utilities go. You're not turning them off - the tenant is free to open his own account with the utility company.

I'd change all leases to state that the tenant is responsible for their own utilities - then if they don't  - the utility company gets blamed for shutting them off.

[Serk]

Who is John Galt?

[Jess from VA]

Evan, I'm not licensed up there, have no idea of state and local (city) law, so I don't know.

How about a class action lawsuit by affected landlords (which would be pretty easy to identify) against the lawmaker for an unlawful taking of private property without due process of law?  The Fifth amendment is federal taking.  Is there NY law on unlawful state taking?  (if such a case was viable for money damages, some big powerful firms might take such a case up on the cuff - contingent fee) (if only for injunction of enforcement, none of them will be interested, except for huge hourly rates)

This seems a clear taking of private property (rents, and costs of utilities).  If landlords then default as a result of the law, they don't just lose money, they lose the whole house (less any equity, but would government fines for noncompliance become a lien against owner equity?)

So government can force landlords to house squatters and pay their utilities?

If so, the only safe eviction must end with cement boots in the east river (so there are no complaining witnesses)?  (this is not legal advice, just practical advice)

And then, all landlords should sell (and move).  

[da prez]

  We have all the tenants put the utilities in their own name. It is in our lease. I do not want any one else's bills. This will not help now , but in the future , change all the leases possible to reflect it. If they cant get utilities in their name , then do not rent to them. They need to apply before moving in.

                                           da prez

[Oss]

I have been counselling small owners to sell for years if they have equity and near retirement age

Probably 50000 or more two family dwellings built way back when with basement apt ( Usually for mother in law in the times before nursing homes, or summer kitchen )   Before about 1931 or so no certificate of occupancy needed. Broker tells prospective buyer it is a 2 with income apt and buyer says ok I can use the $ to help with mortgage   Only NYC says if you have 3 families in that house you can not legally collect money from any tenant in the building and fines owner up to 25000.

In the perverse world of NYC that eliminates housing that is really not substandard at all and penalized the owner, not the broker who rented the place or NYC which approved the unit for the section 8 or other program tenant.  I call section 8 crack for landlords as once you get the 1st month they own you

So you the owner were always paying the utility as the meter for the basement is also the meter for the furnace  Can not turn that off sorry charlie and cant get con ed to put in meter in illegal apt

All my leases always say tenant responsible for all utilities and if separate heating units the heat also

A better strategy for landlord is to mortgage the property,  use the money (or you lost it at the track)
, let the bank take the property in 4 or 5 years, move to a friendly state and start over and tell nyc to kiss your hiney.  Your 401k is safe as is your social security unless the laws have changed and I missed it.  

A few years before Guiliani became mayor someone decided to make it impossible for those wood frame houses to legally be made into 3 family dwelling so you cant even try to make lemonade out of the lemon.    A class action suit would be something but a TRO is needed before the damage is irreversible,

The # of people who want something for free and vote is greater than the # of people who want to work

After I myself wrote to every member of the nyc council I then drafted a letter to go to both the members of the nyc council, assembly and senate and am sending it to all my LT clients. Fill in the blank and tell them why they lost your vote unless they fix and open the courts and allow evictions.

Also I tell all my clients to call all of their friends who own homes and all their church friends and get them to send the letters.  Squeaky wheels.........
Better than sitting and bitching.

[scooperhsd]

Evan, I'm not licensed up there, have no idea of state and local (city) law, so I don't know.

How about a class action lawsuit by affected landlords (which would be pretty easy to identify) against the lawmaker for an unlawful taking of private property without due process of law?  The Fifth amendment is federal taking.  Is there NY law on unlawful state taking?  (if such a case was viable for money damages, some big powerful firms might take such a case up on the cuff - contingent fee) (if only for injunction of enforcement, none of them will be interested, except for huge hourly rates)

This seems a clear taking of private property (rents, and costs of utilities).  If landlords then default as a result of the law, they don't just lose money, they lose the whole house (less any equity, but would government fines for noncompliance become a lien against owner equity?)

So government can force landlords to house squatters and pay their utilities?

If so, the only safe eviction must end with cement boots in the east river (so there are no complaining witnesses)?  (this is not legal advice, just practical advice)

And then, all landlords should sell (and move). 

Pretty well states it. The landlords are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The best advice would be to get out of it ASAP (maybe by leaving NYS as well), anything else is minimizing what trouble and expense they incur. Either that or go for max damage to all parties concerned.
Don't pay the mortgage, don't pay the real estate taxes, don't pay the utilities, and skip town. And change your name.

[GiG]

The Big-Hair Chick has a rental where the lessee died and no longer pays rent. Dead chick's boyfriend (NOT on Lease) refuses to move out or even communicate. He stays locked in a room with his cats while she goes there to paint and do repairs. I said to cut the utilities, he'll be out in no time, but she's afraid he'll injure himself and sue. (I have other, more creative and fun solutions for deadbeat removal, but they have all been vetoed so far...).
There is another renter lined up that caint wait to move in and pay rent, but the present turd refuses to leave and there are no evictions allowed now, so he is in cat piss heaven.
Meanwhile, taxes and utilities have to be paid and no income, her salon is closed too, so it really sucks.

[old2soon]

     In the late 60s early 70s in Illinois I moved furniture. Couple years runnin my boss had the eviction concession in 2 or 3 northern counties there in Il. By the time we got the paper work and the day for the eviction all the legal chit was done and over and we put the peoples stuff on the curb. And we were Not required to pack anything. Just git the stuff outa the rez. I've had people cursing at me and making threats and some times attempting to hinder us. I remember a rather LARGE gal parkin her ample behind in a love seat and two of us pickin the love seat up with her in it and totin the whole shebang out. The wind went outa her sails after that. The sad part was now that their stuff was on the curb if it was not removed the city or township garbage service removed it on the next trash pickup. Look-I'm Not sayin the squatters shouldn't be put out with others pickin up their freight. But there is a strata of some folks that can't afford a roof over their head. I have NO answers for this but I've been on the other side of the eviction process. As my Brother and S I L are land lords and I rent from one I can see both sides of the coin. Far as the Real freeloaders go-throw their sorry azzes OUT! RIDE SAFE.

[Oss]

It is now in the national news  No evictions till Aug 20 based on the erroneous perception or assumption
that all tenants are being evicted because they lost their jobs.

Cuomo is a stupid tool of the left who loves to see himself on tv land every day

Hitting the books to see how to sue the governor.  Have not found a way yet, but have sent an email to many attorneys who are much smarter than me to ask for help


Can not risk a Landlord being thrown in jail for illegal eviction but that is probably the fastest way to an injunction or somehow overruling the Governor in Court of Claims or federal court

[Robert]

Oss nice to see a lawyer that cares so deeply for the people he serves, its almost a contradiction.   

[scooperhsd]

It would be alot different if the government would also forgive the taxes, utilities etc. for the landlords as well. As well as getting the mortgage payments delayed.

But you're right , the fastest way to get this taken care of would be an "illegal" eviction. Or "illegal" shutoff of utilities to the tennants.

[GiG]

It is now in the national news  No evictions till Aug 20 based on the erroneous perception or assumption
that all tenants are being evicted because they lost their jobs.

Cuomo is a stupid tool of the left who loves to see himself on tv land every day

Hitting the books to see how to sue the governor.  Have not found a way yet, but have sent an email to many attorneys who are much smarter than me to ask for help


Can not risk a Landlord being thrown in jail for illegal eviction but that is probably the fastest way to an injunction or somehow overruling the Governor in Court of Claims or federal court

Michigan's freakshow "governor" is being sued presently. They expect the suit to reach the Supreme Court.

[old2soon]

   Fer as I can tell THIS be what ya git with deez in charge. Free housing free money free phones free food BUT Real Common sense folk KNOW there ain't and never has been a Free lunch. Who Zackly do the deez-I iz REALLY restraining myself here-expect to pay fer all the danged free chit? Sounds to me anywho you fine folks in new yawk already on the way towards what these brain dead liberals want fer the rest of Our Fair Country. I know I know-if common sense were common everyone would have it. Sadly we Know that ain't the case. Evan-I Pray you do in Fact find a way to legally bring the ratbastids if not down at least to git some totally ridiculous laws Changed. Good luck in yer quest my New Yawk Barrister Friend!   RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

The Big-Hair Chick has a rental where the lessee died and no longer pays rent. Dead chick's boyfriend (NOT on Lease) refuses to move out or even communicate. He stays locked in a room with his cats while she goes there to paint and do repairs. I said to cut the utilities, he'll be out in no time, but she's afraid he'll injure himself and sue. (I have other, more creative and fun solutions for deadbeat removal, but they have all been vetoed so far...).
There is another renter lined up that caint wait to move in and pay rent, but the present turd refuses to leave and there are no evictions allowed now, so he is in cat piss heaven.
Meanwhile, taxes and utilities have to be paid and no income, her salon is closed too, so it really sucks.

Just get enough ether to move him to say... Memphis.   And change the locks.

[GiG]

_Lawnmower Exhaust under the door (with the electrical mains off)
_Biker BBQ Bash in the yard, Loud and Banging on the windows (with the electrical mains off)
_Friendly Meeting in the basement when he goes to his fridge (with the electrical mains off)
_Murder Bees
_Other tactics to get him outside long enough to go in and change locks

She's just scared to get sued by the not-on-the-lease POS

[Jess from VA]

_Lawnmower Exhaust under the door (with the electrical mains off)
_Biker BBQ Bash in the yard, Loud and Banging on the windows (with the electrical mains off)
_Friendly Meeting in the basement when he goes to his fridge (with the electrical mains off)
_Murder Bees
_Other tactics to get him outside long enough to go in and change locks

She's just scared to get sued by the not-on-the-lease POS

He can't sue from Memphis. 

[Rams]

I guess I'm confused (obviously, I don't know renting laws in any state) but, why would anyone invest in such a thing as rental properties?   My guess would be that during normal times, being a land lord is a profitable adventure.   Assuming that is correct, there are always risks that go along with any enterprise.   

When I moved to Ohio, the owner of the property we purchased, had to evict the current resident of a home we intended to burn to the ground.   He didn't want to leave.   We had it written into the contract that after thirty days, the sale price would be decrease substantially.    It took almost six months for the Sheriff to remove the squatter.   He kept his leaking HD in the living room.   Needless to say, when we torched the home, the smoke could be seen for over 15 miles.   

I used to "Hot Shot" all over the country, there were risks associated with that.   I weighed the risks and went forward.   I eventually shut that enterprise down for the most part and am now very selective about what I do and who I do it for.   

Those risks should be weighed carefully and as always, set backs should be expected and planned for.   Being a land lord should be no different.   Kind of like Vegas, ya pick your game and take yer chances if you want to play.   This Pandemic has effected us all.   

Rams

[3fan4life]

_Lawnmower Exhaust under the door (with the electrical mains off)
_Biker BBQ Bash in the yard, Loud and Banging on the windows (with the electrical mains off)
_Friendly Meeting in the basement when he goes to his fridge (with the electrical mains off)
_Murder Bees
_Other tactics to get him outside long enough to go in and change locks

She's just scared to get sued by the not-on-the-lease POS

I like the biker bash idea.

We could even have a pinata contest....... 

[Jess from VA]

why would anyone invest in such a thing as rental properties?

I think the road to being a millionaire has more often been paved with real estate than any other enterprise.

Traditionally, real estate (with homes and buildings) outperforms and is far less volatile than the stock market (or opening a restaurant).

Finding a cheap fixer upper in a good rental area, fixing it up sufficient for rental, and putting it in rental, allows the landlord to pay (all or most of) the mortgage and upkeep with the rent, so his renters pay the costs, and the owner benefits from ever increasing property values.  Thousands of simple middle income people have done this, over and over, using existing equity, to finance additional homes/real estate.  And built fortunes, or at least nicely supplemented their incomes and had good assets for retirement.

DJT was never a simple middle income person, but he made his billions in real estate.

However, the socialist communist governments of this country have been increasing tenant rights far beyond private property rights for decades.  (I ran a landlord-tenant clinic at my undergraduate college, and our focus was on protecting students from lousy landlords, and even 40 years ago, we could screw the landlords over 6 ways from Sunday).  Today, evictions for non payment of rent (or property destruction/abuse/leasehold violations) has become an exceeding difficult procedure of arcane and time consuming steps and notices and hearings, and if you screw one up, you have to start over.  Of course, bottom line, all of this is about vote buying lawmakers.  

And of course the best market for rental investment property is in city and urban environments, where property values skyrocket beyond all reason (like my home which was built, as cheaply as humanly possible, on a third acre in 1959 and sold for $17,500, and is assessed today at around $375,000... which is a pure crock of sh!t, as despite a lot of money and effort on my part, it's still a cheap little shack of a home.)  

And of course it is exactly in those city and urban environments where the socialists and communists thrive in advancing tenants rights to ridiculous heights.  And also assess them as high as possible and tax them as high as possible as the principle method to finance their ridiculous tax and spend socialism/communism vote buying policies across all spectrums of human existence.

So being a landlord has become a bad idea as an investment in all city and urban locations.  So is living there in your own home without being a landlord.  

Today, the only safe practice in rentals is to hand pick good, reliable, honest tenants.... but of course there are a variety of laws and regulations that don't allow you to refuse rentals to bad, unreliable, and dishonest tenants.  And in any event, you will need a man like our Oss (Evan) on permanent retainer to guide you through the Orwellian nightmare of landlord/tenant law and procedure, as a routine cost of doing business as a landlord.  Or you can go in business with the local mob, to have bad tenants disappeared in the night, but that also has it's drawbacks.  

[Gavin_Sons]

He is not on the lease so it is technically not an eviction  forcefully remove the turd and change the locks then burn all of his crap.

[3fan4life]

He is not on the lease so it is technically not an eviction  forcefully remove the turd and change the locks then burn all of his poop.

I know a landlord that is going through a similar problem right now.

A crazy woman is squatting in one of her rentals and is making life miserable for the tenants that are legally living there.

The police refuse to do anything about the squatter even though she is disturbing the peace by getting drunk and yelling and screaming loudly at all hours of the night.

The landlord has tried to go through the eviction process.

But, Evictions are on hold right now because courts aren't hearing any civil cases.

[Oss]

If the tenant can show ANY kind of ID that he has been there 30 days and you throw him out
the police can and will arrest you

Cuomo stopped all non payment evictions till aug 20 but not holdovers

The Office of Court administration is still not allowing cases to be filed. even holdovers and warrant applications and evictions of total scumbags who are breaking the law.  The only part of court apparently open is when tenant has a complaint.  No equal protection denial totally of due process

A lot of us Landlord attorneys are working on a work around that will be a class action if we can get enough onboard.  Stay tuned.

[Serk]

Looks like LA is trying to take this to the next level of idiocy.....

https://therealdeal.com/la/2020/02/04/by-the-power-vested-in-me-councilman-wants-to-force-landlords-to-sell-their-buildings-to-control-rents/

[Jess from VA]

So now it's MOLON LABE for both our guns and our rentals?  Cool.   

[Oss]

Spoke to a City Marshal today

NYC Dept of Investigations is under Mayor DiBlasio's thumb.  They are the ones who can pull a marshal's license at the whim of DiBlasio and set up all evictions in NYC

I was told they are refusing to allow City Marshal to serve notice of eviction and schedule evictions in Holdover cases in violation of the Governor's (unconstitutional imho) order

We discussed the Marshal's association putting in writing a request to do evictions and when the DOI
says no filing an Article 78.

However, DiBlasio is not even the worst (this pains me to say) of them as the members of the city council are worse socialists and anti landlord. 

I am supposed to be called for an interview by a reporter tomorrow and hopefully
can make the point that this is not only unconstitutional it is criminal.  It is discrimination
at its worst as it denies due process and equal protection afforded to all americans

[3fan4life]

Spoke to a City Marshal today

NYC Dept of Investigations is under Mayor DiBlasio's thumb.  They are the ones who can pull a marshal's license at the whim of DiBlasio and set up all evictions in NYC

I was told they are refusing to allow City Marshal to serve notice of eviction and schedule evictions in Holdover cases in violation of the Governor's (unconstitutional imho) order

We discussed the Marshal's association putting in writing a request to do evictions and when the DOI
says no filing an Article 78.

However, DiBlasio is not even the worst (this pains me to say) of them as the members of the city council are worse socialists and anti landlord. 

I am supposed to be called for an interview by a reporter tomorrow and hopefully
can make the point that this is not only unconstitutional it is criminal.  It is discrimination
at its worst as it denies due process and equal protection afforded to all americans

Where do they think people would live if Landlords weren't willing to take the risk of ownership and renting?

[JimC]

Where do they think people would live if Landlords weren't willing to take the risk of ownership and renting?

In government owned housing that WE all pay for.
After all, that is the agenda of the left is is not?

Jim

[3fan4life]

Where do they think people would live if Landlords weren't willing to take the risk of ownership and renting?

In government owned housing that WE all pay for.
After all, that is the agenda of the left is is not?

Jim

I'm sure that is what they're thinking.

Only, and idiot wouldn't understand that "Housing Projects" were one of the biggest mistakes that the Government has ever made.

Nobody wants to live in them, they live there because they have no other choice.



I spent 20 years working as a Paramedic/Firefighter for the city of Roanoke,VA.

The "projects" were always the hot spots for our most violent calls, especially in the late 80's and early 90's.

In the late 90's the city made a tremendous effort to revamp them.

This along with a Community Oriented Policing Effort (COPE) really made a difference.

It didn't make them dream neighborhoods but it certainly improved things.

Still, they aren't the first choice of the residents.


For many years the city of Salem, VA had no housing projects.

Until, the Federal Government forced them to (Using Federal Fund arm twisting).

Oddly they built them on their Salem, VA / Roanoke, VA boundary.

[Rams]

why would anyone invest in such a thing as rental properties?

I think the road to being a millionaire has more often been paved with real estate than any other enterprise.

Traditionally, real estate (with homes and buildings) outperforms and is far less volatile than the stock market (or opening a restaurant).

Yep.   Won't argue with any of your post but, the fact remains that it's still a risk the rental owner took on.   Just like Vegas, some times ya win, some times ya don't.

With all the laws protecting renters, I wouldn't touch rental property with your money.   But, if you want to send me a couple hundred $K, I'll be happy to keep it safe for you.  

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Well Ron, I agree with you entirely.

I had enough money (in my working days) to acquire one or two rentals, in search of a few hundred grand in retirement.

Nope, not a chance, and absolutely not interested.  Not only do I hate working on homes (mostly lacking in skills), I never wanted to deal with tenants (or property management assholes).  No potential profit was worse those headaches.

Instead, my simple (but effective) plan was to earn all I could, live as cheap as I could, and save every nickle I could (and have no children).

I was able to punch out of Federal service 4yrs early (losing a third of my pension) at 56, pay off a deranged spouse for a fair share of our assets, pay off my house, and now live on my small pension and social security without touching the rest of my life savings.  Except now I am helping what family I have left with spare money I don't need, and they can use.

I give my (90yo) mom $500 with her Mothers Day card, and she calls me worrying I'm getting Alzheimers giving away all my money.   It's OK mom, I'm doing fine, waste it on good whisky and bad men (dad is gone 8 years).  It's worth it just to hear her laugh.   

[Rams]

Well Ron, I agree with you entirely.

I had enough money (in my working days) to acquire one or two rentals, in search of a few hundred grand in retirement.

Nope, not a chance, and absolutely not interested.  Not only do I hate working on homes (mostly lacking in skills), I never wanted to deal with tenants (or property management assholes).  No potential profit was worse those headaches.

Instead, my simple (but effective) plan was to earn all I could, live as cheap as I could, and save every nickle I could (and have no children).

I was able to punch out of Federal service 4yrs early (losing a third of my pension) at 56, pay off a deranged spouse for a fair share of our assets, pay off my house, and now live on my small pension and social security without touching the rest of my life savings.  Except now I am helping what family I have left with spare money I don't need, and they can use.

I give my (90yo) mom $500 with her Mothers Day card, and she calls me worrying I'm getting Alzheimers giving away all my money.   It's OK mom, I'm doing fine, waste it on good whisky and bad men (dad is gone 8 years).  It's worth it just to hear her laugh.   

Jess,
I understand and appreciate your position and agree with you planning on your future needs.   Good on you for (being able to) taking care of your mom.   BTW, just so you know, I am available for adoption.   

Rams

[Robert]

Will Congress Bankrupt the Mom and Pop Landlord with This SOCIALIST New Bill?

https://www.theorganicprepper.com/congress-war-mom-and-pop-landlord/

Mom and pop landlords, defined as real estate investors who own 10 or fewer properties, own about half of all rental units nationwide. And, according to CoreLogic, a real estate data company, the number of small investors is growing. In 2018, they were responsible for 60% of all purchases, as compared to 48% in 2013.

Let’s get clear on who the target of the latest proposed House bill, “Take Responsibility for Workers and Families Act” will be, at least as it relates to landlords.

It’s the mom and pop landlord.

It’s the people who have often put their entire life savings into a few properties hoping to build up their assets or creating a retirement income to supplement their lackluster Social Security benefits.

[Oss]

This is what is going on now in NY

Many lawful immigrants saved their money to buy that 2 or 3 family house hoping the rent would help with the mortgage and when the house was paid off they could retire

Not anymore, not in NY   I lost my tenant, how am I supposed to pay 20k a year real estate tax? 

Soon the state and city will be bankrupt and I hope there is no bailout

No sales tax income, no real estate tax income, frankly I hope folks even stop paying state income tax if they have no money

Only then will people vote against the democrats - when they have nothing and nobody to take it from

[Rams]

Only then will people vote against the democrats - when they have nothing and nobody to take it from

Two things come to my mind.  
First, I can hear it now, TOO BIG TO LET THEM FAIL.
Second, when the populace figures out they can vote themselves access to the treasury, we will all fail and that's precisely what Dem leadership is doing.   Makes me sick to think some folks don't give a damn about the next two or three generations or this country as a whole.   They couldn't support such BS if they did.   Yeah, I do have some strong feelings.  

Rams

[old2soon]

Only then will people vote against the democrats - when they have nothing and nobody to take it from

Two things come to my mind.  
First, I can hear it now, TOO BIG TO LET THEM FAIL.
Second, when the populace figures out they can vote themselves access to the treasury, we will all fail and that's precisely what Dem leadership is doing.   Makes me sick to think some folks don't give a damn about the next two or three generations or this country as a whole.   They couldn't support such BS if they did.   Yeah, I do have some strong feelings.  

Rams             

         Some folks are just predetermined too Not see the forest for the trees. As I've heard some comedians say-ya can't fix stupid. RIDE SAFE.

[..]

This is what is going on now in NY

Many lawful immigrants saved their money to buy that 2 or 3 family house hoping the rent would help with the mortgage and when the house was paid off they could retire

Not anymore, not in NY   I lost my tenant, how am I supposed to pay 20k a year real estate tax? 

Soon the state and city will be bankrupt and I hope there is no bailout

No sales tax income, no real estate tax income, frankly I hope folks even stop paying state income tax if they have no money

Only then will people vote against the democrats - when they have nothing and nobody to take it from

I fear there are too many really greedy and ignorant where you are. Corona isn't the only virus running rampant across the country.

[G-Man]

Where do they think people would live if Landlords weren't willing to take the risk of ownership and renting?

That's very similar to the argument the left raises about how the worker should share in the profits since the worker does the work.  I always ask......  If the worker should be a partner in the businesses gains, shouldn't they also be a partner in its loses?  If the business has a negative month, shouldn't the workers forego their paychecks like the owner does?  If the business is sued and loses, shouldn't the worker take a pay cut like the owner? 

[Rams]

Where do they think people would live if Landlords weren't willing to take the risk of ownership and renting?

That's very similar to the argument the left raises about how the worker should share in the profits since the worker does the work.  I always ask......  If the worker should be a partner in the businesses gains, shouldn't they also be a partner in its loses?  If the business has a negative month, shouldn't the workers forego their paychecks like the owner does?  If the business is sued and loses, shouldn't the worker take a pay cut like the owner?  

An excellent point.     Many people simply do not wish to share the risks of ownership and yet feel they should benefit when another profits from taking the associated risks.    Landlords take a risk when they go into that business.    I personally don't wish to be involved in any business that is so heavily governed.    

I think landlords should be able to do the same thing banks do with an auto loan, fall behind in a car/truck payment and they repossess your car.   The family walks.   Don't pay the rent you agreed to, get out.  Heartless, maybe but, being responsible is something we seem to have forgotten.    

Or, have chosen to just ignore.

That is not to suggest that landlords should not exercise good judgement and kick out normally good renters that run into hard times but, we all have our financial limits.  Just as any business owner has.

Rams

[MarkT]

This thread brings to mind two points for me:

I love the way the jewish culture has developed words for behaviors.  A favorite is "schnorrer".  From wikipedia,

"Schnorrer (שנאָרער; also spelled shnorrer) is a Yiddish term meaning "beggar" or "sponger".[1] The word Schnorrer originally occurred in the German language to describe a freeloader who frequently asks for little things, like cigarettes or little sums of money, without offering a return.

"The English language usage of the word denotes a sly chiseler who will get money out of his acquaintances any way he can, often through an air of entitlement. A schnorrer is distinguished from an ordinary beggar by dint of his boundless chutzpah. Like "moocher", "schnorrer" does not apply to direct begging or destitution, but rather a habit of getting things (food, tools) by politely or insistently borrowing them with no intention of return. "


A couple examples in entertainment:  In the Northern Exposure episode "Northern Hospitality," Dr. Joel Fleishman is perceived as a schnorrer because of his failure to reciprocate dinner invitations.
In Seinfeld, Kramer was a schnorrer - mooched off Jerry constantly.

I have a neighbor who is a schnorrer.  He introduced himself to me by knocking on my door and asked me to custom-cut a large piece of metal for him.  "Oh by the way, I'm your neighbor Kirk."  I did it for him, took 2 hours, one for setup and one to cut it - normal shop rate is $60/hr which is cheap for this industry.  Not to mention, the gas and grinder and blender sanding wheels, and custom jig needed.  I rushed it through, delivered the next morning, and he complained it didn't fit - it was exactly what he ordered, he didn't measure it right. Recall the maxim, "measure twice, cut once."  He measured once.  Then he says, "Do I owe you anything?"  Of course he owes me - the appropriate behavior is to hand me cash, not ask if it's free.  But I let him off for 1: Goodwill, and 2: it's an investment.  Since he now owes me, I'll never see his freebie requests again - or even him at my door - unless he has incredible chutzpah - another great yiddish word.  At which time I'll remind him he still hasn't paid for his last request; my shop isn't free, my suppliers don't GIVE me supplies because I have a schnorrer for a customer, or have other costs.  

Kirk replaced the previous owner of the house he is in, who was the same.  Paul S. got evicted because he bought a Harley instead of paying his mortgage.  The bank is not as forgiving as he expected.  He was the youngest of a large family, who was never required to be accountable.  He constantly mooched off of me, for tools which he always returned very late or damaged.  I told him, "you know, Harbor Freight has great prices for tools."  He said, "I can't buy tools, my kids always lose them."  So instead they can lose my tools, which are needed for my business.  His kids didn't fall far from the tree - they came over with flat tires on their bikes once, and I aired them up and told them how to repair them.  They were back 2 days later, wanting my time and air again.  Apparently I am now the operator of their free air station; repairing their flats isn't necessary.  I told them, the free air was a one-time thing, not an ongoing free service - they need to fix their tires.

Second point - Benjamin Franklin said, "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."