The US is Dramatically Overcounting Coronavirus Deaths

[98valk]

I've been posting that this is going on for over a month, esp in NY and NJ, they need federal bailout money for their unfunded pensions. all of these democrat governors are getting their orders from pelosi.


https://townhall.com/columnists/johnrlottjr/2020/05/16/the-us-is-dramatically-overcounting-coronavirus-deaths-n2568925

Over 86,500 people have reportedly died in the United States from the Coronavirus, and the fear generated by those deaths is driving the public policy debate. But that number is a dramatic overcount. Our metrics include deaths that have nothing to do with the virus. The problem is even worse as the Centers for Disease Control over counts even some of these cases and the government has created financial incentives for this misreporting. Relying on these flawed numbers is destroying businesses and jobs and costing lives.

“The case definition is very simplistic,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health, explains. “It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death.”

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes. What I have been saying. On the upside. No one died of COPD or heart trouble or any other flu yet this year.

[hubcapsc]

We all use what we think are reputable sources to keep up with
what is going on.

Today in The Wall Street Journal, they say:

Although the details about Covid-19 deaths are coming into sharper
view, the exact number of fatalities from the disease is still elusive.
Multiple factors have made it difficult to pinpoint.

The NCHS, a part of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
collects death-certificate data that originate from a loose network of
thousands of funeral directors, physicians and more than 2,000 coroners
and medical examiners.

Researchers say death certificates can be subjective and contain errors.
Still, these certificates create “our most comprehensive picture of lives
lost to Covid-19,” according to the CDC

According to 98valk's post, someone is asserting that 86,500 have died
from the virus, and someone else asserts that 86,500 is an overcount.

I think it is likely that there's not some person or organization who knows
some number that is "the correct number".

The Wall Street Journal has reported a number that asserts nothing about
the virus, but is an interesting, and probably accurate, number:

In mid-April, 30% more Americans died than was typical in the same period
in previous years, a Wall Street Journal examination of federal death-certificate
data shows.

-Mike

[Valkorado]

I think it is likely that there's not some person or organization who knows
some number that is "the correct number".


In mid-April, 30% more Americans died than was typical in the same period
in previous years, a Wall Street Journal examination of federal death-certificate
data shows.

 

I sure don't know the correct number, but I've come to the conclusion that the virus is not benign.

[98valk]

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
1,485,912
Deaths:
88,550

CRICKETS!
Recovered:
327,751

[Patrick]

Yup, been going on in Florida. As mentioned, if one died in the past 2 months it was pretty much blamed on the Kung Flu.

[shortleg]

 My niece is a nurse working in a covid ward and anybody that has the condition
no matter if they die from the cancer they have. If they have it they are counted as dyeing from it.
  This has two problems:
 1 It makes the number wrong.
 2 It gives the state Medicare money.
So you can see where there are going to be numbers that are wrong
and will have to be corrected.
  Another thing wrong with this is some power Hungary Governors are useing these numbers
to set their people free.

[DIGGER]

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
1,485,912
Deaths:
88,550

CRICKETS!
Recovered:
327,751

It's true that the numbers are not accurate.....but these are the numbers that will go in the history books

[Serk]

I'm just gonna leave this here.....

https://www.foxnews.com/health/colorado-man-died-alcohol-poisoning-death-classified-coronavirus-report

[Gavin_Sons]

Big question is why? Why are these hospitals doing this? Because they are money hungry and they get 5 times the government money from a covid death than they make on a natural death like a heart attack. They find out the government will give them X number of dollars for a covid death they are going to do all they can to capitalize on that profit. I hope the government audits them and they get nothing.  My wife's hospital says it has lost 3 million dollars because of this. They want to cut 3 million out of their budget this year but if they do they will go bankrupt and be forced to sell out to a bigger hospital. The bigger hospitals already want to buy them.

[bscrive]

What difference does it make.  According to Eric Trump, Covid-19 will magically disappear after Nov. 3.  

Here is his quote:

“And guess what – after November 3rd, coronavirus will magically, all of the sudden, go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen.”

Good news for everyone.  I wonder if he has a crystal ball, or something.

[F6Dave]

Here in Colorado they revised the death count down by 25% last week.  I read the director of the state health department was getting heat over changing death certificates after the doctors submitted them.  One legislator asked for a criminal investigation.

[Rams]

What difference does it make.  According to Eric Trump, Covid-19 will magically disappear after Nov. 3.  

Here is his quote:

“And guess what – after November 3rd, coronavirus will magically, all of the sudden, go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen.”

Good news for everyone.  I wonder if he has a crystal ball, or something.

What difference does it make?   Seriously...….

We, the public are being manipulated by being fed false and inaccurate data about this "Pandemic".    Decisions are being made based on data that is not accurate.    Public Health Officials are always going to take the safest route.    But, they are not Economist and apparently are not concerned about this country going into another recession or even worse, a depression.    

Almost every death is now being reported as a COVID-19 related death.   That is simply not true.  
As we progress through this Pandemic, the numbers of infected has dramatically risen but, that should be expected as testing has significantly increased.   It's a numbers game the hospitals and Democratic leadership are taking advantage of.   Scare the hell out of public, hospitals profit and elections are influenced.   That's why we need accurate data.

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Historically, a lot of death certificates used to say cause of death was cardiac arrest.

It's true, when you're heart stops, so do you.

When death was from any curious or suspicious reason (say gunshot wounds, or the wife backed her car over you) there would be an autopsy, with more specific information about death.  Otherwise, it was often cardiac arrest.

This was before people got paid to say it was a virus.  

When governments offer people free money, they WILL sign up for it.  

[Valkorado]

Personally I stand with the President.  He said people are dying all over the world from this virus.  He reminded those present that it started in China.

I'll go as far as saying our government providing monetary incentive to hospitals for C19 numbers is a disservice, and no doubt in some cases was taken advantage of.  I'd also wager that the virus was a catalyst to death for many people with pre-existing conditions who would likey still be with their loved ones had they not stumbled across the sh!t.

Should our economy remain in perpetual lockdown?  I think we all agree it should not.

[shadowsoftime]

Open up 100%, let chips fall where they fall.

[Willow]

It does eem odd that when looking at world numbers the U.S.A. holds almost 1/3 of the deaths.  Either other copuntries are under reporting or U.S. sources are over reporting.  I suspect a bit of both.

[Valkorado]

I'll leave this here.  

Credit where credit is due.  I think our lib Governor is doing the right thing here.  Accuracy is important.  He said he wants to try and avoid the controversy of "iffy" numbers in our state.

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis said state health officials should always rely on data from a coroner, rather than their own analysis of death certificates, when it comes to reporting data on COVID-19 deaths.

“No, in fact, one of the reasons we wanted to make sure we reported it out in a better way was to inspire confidence so that it wouldn’t be politicized,” Polis said. “These are deaths that should not be politicized.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-gov-pushes-back-against-cdcs-coronavirus-death-counts

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/colorado-coronavirus-polis-state-response-covid-19/73-23dd0143-9a6d-43e6-9c7d-f66fafb64650

I did find it interesting that the articles did not mention that in the same interview Polis said when looking at the overall picture statewide and nationally, the number differences aren't that dramatic and that COVID, "is a bad bug".

[hubcapsc]

I'll go as far as saying our government providing monetary incentive to hospitals for C19 numbers is a disservice

I think people aren't going to the doctors and hospitals for the normal stuff, and
most hospitals don't have much virus business other than the hot-spot ones.
It seems to me that none of the hospitals, the ones getting spanked because
there's no normal business and the ones getting spanked because they're
filled up with really sick virus patients, none of the hospitals are "raking it in"
by sponging off the virus.

-Mike

[Valkorado]

I'll go as far as saying our government providing monetary incentive to hospitals for C19 numbers is a disservice

I think people aren't going to the doctors and hospitals for the normal stuff, and
most hospitals don't have much virus business other than the hot-spot ones.
It seems to me that none of the hospitals, the ones getting spanked because
there's no normal business and the ones getting spanked because they're
filled up with really sick virus patients, none of the hospitals are "raking it in"
by sponging off the virus.

-Mike

I agree, Mike.  I think the "disservice" that is at the heart of the issue is that the monies allocated to hospitals -- which I also believe was done for the legitimate purposes you mentioned -- has given those who would minimize COVID numbers great momentum for their argument that the virus is historically insignificant and the reaction overblown.   The, "They're just inflating numbers for the money" argument.  In my opinion the funds should have been based more on demographics -- hospitals in "hot zones" should get more, irregardless of their actual C19 patient numbers.

I think the virus is significant and the reaction has caused great damage, worldwide.  Public health damage.  Economic damage almost beyond comprehension.   Whether each country has reacted properly or improperly will be debated beyond our lifetimes.  None of the world's nations have welcomed the virus, and none are unscathed by its presence.

There may be corruption on a small scale. Seems there always is. I don't think the majority of doctors, nurses, hospital managers and coroners were anxiously awaiting C19 so they could fiendishly inflate numbers to bleed our system and buffalo the public.

[F6Dave]

It does eem odd that when looking at world numbers the U.S.A. holds almost 1/3 of the deaths.  Either other copuntries are under reporting or U.S. sources are over reporting.  I suspect a bit of both.

It's probably only meaningful to compare the U.S. to other developed nations like those in Europe.  Data from much of the world is likely inaccurate, and limited travel to third world nations surely suppresses infections.

You also need to compare rates per capita rather than total cases.  The U.S. population is a bit more than that of Germany, Italy, Spain, France, and the UK combined.  Of those nations I believe only Germany has a lower case rate than the U.S.

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

[Willow]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

nytimes.       

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

nytimes.       

It’s curious when others have put up that emoji to someone’s comment, you delete their post.  I’m sure there are other sources, but I’ll let it go. 

[hubcapsc]

The NYC graph was pretty dramatic  ...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

The NYC graph was pretty dramatic  ...

-Mike

no doubt ! I’ve read somewhere else that there were 30k in extra deaths in 30 days compared to the historical average.