tankless gas water heater thermal fuse switch

[cookiedough]

I think mine clunked out after last 10 years or so tonight being Friday night of course 5 p.m. when everything closed.  Part is like 10 bucks shipped to my house.  Only issue is labor.  To do it 'properly',  you have to disassemble the entire unit a 3 plus hour project (me a whole day and will screw it up am sure)  if not more and a bunch of wires and pipes/circuit board,  and screws taken apart, pretty much gutting entire unit just to wrap that 3 foot white wire around the heat exchanger near top part that the wire clips into all around.

I called Noritz service (sales not open of course) the mfg. and code 14 is pretty sure bad thermal switch.  Am going to de sulfur/clean the unit prior tomorrow with 4 gallons of distilled white vinegar thru a sump pump/hoses just to make sure is not clogged/dirty is all,   but unit never threw a 14 code before which more than likely indicated bad thermal switch. 

I saw a shortcut utube video and see no reason why not to do it to save misery of taking apart everything on the unit and possibly destroying a 1200 unit.  The only reason Noritz said to wrap the long 3 foot fuse switch wire around the heat exchanger with metal clips as should be is it senses overheating to throw a code 19 is all they said.  My theory is only the 2 of us now at home and not like it will overheat for a 5 minute shower each of us is all per day, basically a sensor unit for overheating to shut it down in case of overheating (safety feature).  Utube video says why not just unclip both front clips easily snap on new one on those 2 front clips and route a loop to let it hang in front of the unit behind the front cover simple 1 minute and done.  Utube video said has worked fine like that for months no problems.  Am sure a technician taking 3+ hours will be a 300-500 bill for a 1200 new unit just for a 10 dollar fuse switch/wire.   

Why does something so simple being a 3 to 4 foot thermal fuse switch for 10 bucks have to be a 3+ hour project to wrap around the heat exchanger on top all the way around?  Only issue is to make sure if just put in front NO KINKS can be a big loop but not pinched is all which should not be an issue.

thoughts?

I could though buy 3 thermal fuse switches for backups and  'attempt' to route the  old 3 foot fuse wire taping on the new one to it and hope to feed/pull it all the way around and hit the metal clips in the back but 90 percent sure will not work since doubt the white wire will feed thru the clips must be snapped in since the metal clips are not wide enough to feed thru the taped on new wire. 

the darn 3 foot wire is not that long which is basically the entire circumference square of the entire unit.
I think the whole entire tankless water heater is like 45 lbs. is all. 

Or,  if I buy 3 as backups,  I could just 'attempt' to ruin one of the 3 and fish it thru the back of the unit holding onto both ends and see if I get lucky and push forward on both sides in front snapping the white 3 foot wire into the 2 clips in back?  If not snapped into the 2 metal clips in back,  at least the 2 sides and front will be snapped in place and the other 2 back clips the wire fuse will be resting pretty darn close to the metal clips touching the heat exchanger so close enough? 

[cookiedough]

well, shut it down and moved the thermal switch around some and got hot water for shower this morning,  but still gotta go buy 4 gallons of distilled vinegar and let the sump pump run for 1 hour thru the system.  

Hope that is all it is since one would think if the thermal switch/wire fails, it fails all the time?  Researched code 14 and yes it could be just a good cleaning/descaling vs. thermal switch bad so will see?  Not sure the energy/gas savings of a tankless water heater is worth the added cost long term but reviews say should last 20-25 years (has been 10 years) vs. the poorly made in CHINA tanked water heaters avg. life expectancy is 12 years, but 1/2 the cost as tankless, well almost.  Maybe the Noritz guy wants a sale is all telling me 110% is the thermal switch being bad code 14?  Part online is 7 bucks but one youtube guy said the same switch ordering thru Noritz wanted 30 bucks.

Yah,  looked this morning at feeding the new wire around the unit/heat exchanger up top and NO room not going to work too many pipes, etc. in the way for sure and no clearance very tight fit so if thermal switch,  just looping wire just in front easy snap on connections.

[Robert]

My son in law just had a similar problem.

His heater stopped and there was power into the unit but the wiring. more than likely a thermal fuse wire blew and there was no hot water. He checked it out himself and knew he was getting power into the unit but nothing working. The electrician came and cut out the wire and put in a regular wire in there and it was fine.

Thermal fuses like any fuse have problems with power since they will act as a resistor and heat up and eventually fail. When the wire is at or near capacity it will heat up and fail just like any connection that limits power.

[Patrick]

I know this is of absolutely no help. I did not go with a tankless because of the yearly cleaning maintenance, initial cost and amount of current to run one.

[scooperhsd]

I know this is of absolutely no help. I did not go with a tankless because of the yearly cleaning maintenance, initial cost and amount of current to run one.

You DO NOT want to use a whole house electric tankless - 120+amps - your power company will hate you. In my NC house - we had a 1GPM point of use in the kitchen because it took SO LONG for LUKEWARM water to make it to the kitchen (75-90 seconds). But that little unit took a standalone 50 amp 240V circuit to work. The alternative would have been to put a 20 gallon POU tank under the kitchen in the crawlspace - and that was my original idea.

[Jess from VA]

Hah, 90% of the time, I am done washing dishes before hot water gets to my kitchen sink.

Though on average, I only have to wash a few dishes, silverware and a glass.

Hot water gets to my upstairs bath in seconds, at 10-15 times the rate/flow of my kitchen.

The kitchen lines/drain all run through the concrete pad, and if that ever goes completely south, I'm just not going to have any water in my kitchen (except in a bucket).  Or maybe I can run a hose in the window.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

We've got plenty of hot water.  I'd kill for some cold water. Just got home from grouting tile at my daughters. A cool shower would have been nice. I think it takes us about 30 minutes of running the water before it's not 120*.

[Patrick]

Yep, I priced out both 1 tank for everything and 3 small units. Didn't want to go thru everything for either. So I just installed one big electric. I still drain and flush every year, change the anode every 5 years. Hot water gets to the baths in seconds, but, added a timed small circulating pump to help with the hot water to the kitchen.  Hot water was a bit slow before but when I replumbed I replaced the galvanized with CPVC and insulation. I still like the plastic, its cheap, easy, fast and looks neat.

[gordonv]

I know this is of absolutely no help. I did not go with a tankless because of the yearly cleaning maintenance, initial cost and amount of current to run one.

You DO NOT want to use a whole house electric tankless - 120+amps - your power company will hate you. In my NC house - we had a 1GPM point of use in the kitchen because it took SO LONG for LUKEWARM water to make it to the kitchen (75-90 seconds). But that little unit took a standalone 50 amp 240V circuit to work. The alternative would have been to put a 20 gallon POU tank under the kitchen in the crawlspace - and that was my original idea.

You could also continue your hot water line from the kitchen, back to the tank, and run a low volume pump to recirculate the water. Insulated pipes too. You'll have hot water in seconds.

[cookiedough]

well after diddling with 2 sets of vinegar water and sump pump with hoses thru the tankless gas water heater yesterday, it worked for ONLY 2 times after that brief times each.  Then, while still downstairs cleaning up the mess I made,  the digital readout went from 120 to code 14 yet again darn it.  Thus,  am hoping it is just the thermal fuse switch which is cheap for the part but labor to run it ALL the way around the heat exchanger will not be cheap.

Noritz the mfg. said you should run it around the hot heat exchanger since it senses too much heat and if gets too hot,  it will fail or cut power to the hot water heater.  I will take that chance since is an all day rip every single thing out just to install 3 ft. wire in back on those 2 back clips on the heat exchanger NO way to do it unless take everything out and NOT doing that.  Unit is 10 years old and heat exchanger is 12 year warranty so will take my chances just running the wire making one big loop in front of the unit and clip the 2 plastic clips in place is all, screw calling a plumber for 2 hours labor for an 8 dollar part.  Noritz did say 10 years on that thermal fuse is a long time most do not last 5-7 years or so.    All it is is a safety measure so the heat exhanger does not get too hot and burn down but highly unlikely that will happen with two 5 minute showers per day,  dishes once per day, and laundry 2 loads per week is all.  Is yet another safety measure which can be by-passed as far as I am concerned.

As far as COLD showers had one tonight after changing oil and mowing 2 lawns with push mowers.  Still was TOO DARN COLD on the neether regions should just put on swimtrunks and use the garden hose outside would have been 3x's warmer water than the COLD shower tonight.

will have to order that 8 dollar thermal fuse switch tomorrow ASAP in hopes it works and get it by this coming Friday shipping UPS.

I am ordering 3 of them since shipping is still 4.95 total is all since I might try connecting old one to new one with electrical tape and attempt pulling it all the way around using old 3 foot wire,  after just looping in front the first one to make sure we get HOT water 1st.  I can get the 2 side clips with long screwdriver but still the 2 rear clips for the wire will not work with new fuse wire no way to snap that wire in place in back like 3-4 inches in, just a guess,  on each side in back and about 1/2 inch tops of clearance all around that heat exchanger where the clips are in back.   I think resting the wire near the clips in back would be good enough?   

I wonder if they make a tool that bends at a 90 degree angle and is very, very thin like a very tiny screwdriver has to be about 12-14 inches deep/long  and about 5-6 inches bent going inward.  If I can find a tool like that very small and thin and that long,  I could possible push from in front on that wire and migt get that wire to snap into the back clips?   Any idea if they make a tool like this?  I have a flexible grabber that bends about 18 inches long but is not rigid at a 90 degree bend like srewdriver.

I know with my luck if I rip the entire guts out all 16 steps and tons of wires and clips and screws and circuit boards, etc.  I would screw it up reinstalling it all and then a pile of 1200 dollars down the tubes.  Is easy to rip stuff apart,  getting all the wires, etc. back in place is a whole other story for me. 

[Patrick]

I know this is of absolutely no help. I did not go with a tankless because of the yearly cleaning maintenance, initial cost and amount of current to run one.

You DO NOT want to use a whole house electric tankless - 120+amps - your power company will hate you. In my NC house - we had a 1GPM point of use in the kitchen because it took SO LONG for LUKEWARM water to make it to the kitchen (75-90 seconds). But that little unit took a standalone 50 amp 240V circuit to work. The alternative would have been to put a 20 gallon POU tank under the kitchen in the crawlspace - and that was my original idea.

You could also continue your hot water line from the kitchen, back to the tank, and run a low volume pump to recirculate the water. Insulated pipes too. You'll have hot water in seconds.

Yep, thats what I did. Added a timer to it. I think I posted it somewhere.

[cookiedough]

called 8 places this morning last call came thru but had to drive 45 minutes one way to get an 8 dollar part thermal fuse switch.  Wife said she was moving out tonight if was not fixed.  Gee,  yah think I should have messed up the connections.......

Now have 3 other honey do lists has been years not fixed I better get on those as well this summer for will not be long before the wife has enough.....

Just going to let the long wire dangle in a loop in front not attempting to wrap it around onto the rear clips somehow not worth it and called 2 plumber guys and both agree not worth the 3 hours of labor charge ripping it all apart every single item inside the unit.    They said if was under 5 years or so probably worth doing but the heat exchanger has 12 year warranty has been 10 years so not like my chances of overheating in next 2 years is likely ruining the heat exchanger.  I think HEAT from the HOT heat exchanger is what ruins eventually the thermal fuse wire over years and years of use so hopefully since only the front 2 clips are on the new thermal fuse wire it might last another 10 years, or so I hope.   

I still am going to call the place online to get 2 more thermal fuses since is cheapest 7 bucks each and 5 shipping is all just in case to not have to go thru this again in say 3-6 more years.  This plumbing place socked it to me for an 8 dollar fuse with 11 bucks shipping cost when I drove there to go get it but they said the mfg. charged them that much but know better they buy in bulk and markup the cost to the customer as they all do to make near double the profit on parts alone.