I Have a Question and a Request.

[carolinarider09]

It is my contention that the intent of both the Democrat Party and their leadership in the Main Stream Media is to use the Corona-19 virus to slow, and destabilize the United States economy to help defeat President Donald Trump in this years election. 

They are working hand and hand to make this happen and, sadly to say, the RHINO’s (such as Senator Lindsey Graham) are not willing step up and do anything to expose this.

Why do I believe this, the constant news articles, tweets, Facebook posts about how the COVID-19 infection numbers are rising.  There is never mention of the continued decrease in deaths attributed (rightly or wrongly) to the virus.  Only the number of infections.

Next, they discuss, how these reported increases in cases are affecting hospitalizations.  It some reports, indicating the hospital ICU beds are 80%-90% occupied.

Which brings me to the “question”. 

Are not hospitals (in most cases) “for profit” organizations?  And, if you are a for profit organization, do you not have a business model?  And if you have a business model for your hospital, what do you expect the most profitable “occupancy” rate would be?  Would it be 50%?  Maybe its 70%. 

So the question is, are hospitals at an 85% or 90% ICU capacity worried? 

And now the request. 

If you are going to post a link to a news story, opinion piece or something similar, I’d like you to tell us why you are making this post.  Just having a link to a story which may be, in and of itself, bogus and misleading does no one any good in helping to understand the war I believe we are currently fighting in this country.

[Jess from VA]

If you are going to post a link to a news story, opinion piece or something similar, I’d like you to tell us why you are making this post.  Just having a link to a story which may be, in and of itself, bogus and misleading does no one any good in helping to understand the war I believe we are currently fighting in this country

I requested the same thing a month or two ago.  IF you think the article is worth my (our) time to read, give us a sentence or two explaining why it's important, or just copy/paste the operative 2-3 sentences from the article itself.    This is especially true in threads that go on and on like the KungFlu thread, which has 1000 links (of which I read almost none, after page 3).  Some may be very good, and others not, and I'm not going to read them all to discover which is which.

On the other hand, in some short and narrow subject threads, a link may provide the complete answer to the question, and may need no explanation.

I'm also certain the Ds are using the virus economy slowdown to best advantage for the coming election (and everything else, including the kitchen sink), although it seems clear that many believe the distancing-mask-shutdown-slowdown-is honestly the medical & humanitarian thing to do, all politics aside.  So it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and hard to follow along without throwing them all out as pure D bullscat.  

I also think the same thing bears close attention on all the current protests and riots/looting/statute destruction/occupy city centers.  There is overlap of course, but I think a lot of people feel compelled to peacefully protest (which I almost always support), and a lot of people just want to be violent and are using the protests as legitimizing-cover for their violence (which I almost never support).  

[Willow]

The politicians are in a lose/lose situation.  Continuing the panic is expected to hurt the re-election of a sitting President.  Any opposition to the alleged mitigation proposals will infuriate panicked voters and also result in a loss of votes.

I do think the COVID-19 is serious.  I think it's as serious or perhaps a little moreso than the annual flu.  I believe we as a populace are being fed a lot of crap and required to practice some real stupidity in the guise of avoiding the impact of COVID-19.  I believe there are certain political persons that are very cleverly using the situation.  I don't really see a practical and effective solution.

[Jess from VA]

The politicians are in a lose/lose situation.  Continuing the panic is expected to hurt the re-election of a sitting President.  Any opposition to the alleged mitigation proposals will infuriate panicked voters and also result in a loss of votes.

I agree Carl.  It may be true that in the long run, we are all better off to fully reopen, and regenerate our magnificent economy, and take our lumps (deaths) as part of the human condition.  But telling the voters that a bunch of people will have to die (many badly), is not the best strategy to win an election. Unfortunately, the incumbent is in a much worse position in this prisoner's dilemma paradox than the challenger.  

[Willow]

... Unfortunately, the incumbent is in a much worse position in this prisoner's dilemma paradox than the challenger.   

Yes.  Historically a crises at election time is a negative for the incumbent and a positive for the challenger.

[Gryphon Rider]

And now the request. 

If you are going to post a link to a news story, opinion piece or something similar, I’d like you to tell us why you are making this post.  Just having a link to a story which may be, in and of itself, bogus and misleading does no one any good in helping to understand the war I believe we are currently fighting in this country.

I'd like to amend the motion to include links YouTube videos.  I won't follow the link unless I have an idea of what I'm about to see.

[scooperhsd]

I agree about the "tell us what and why you're posting a link (any link)". I almost never follow an unexplained link. Too much crap going on to expect everyone to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

[cookiedough]

not into politics, but as far as hospital for profit, sure are.  However, my boss who has an older sister runs a major hospital in administration, etc. and the profits are way way DOWN due to Covid 19.  The money makers are NOT Covid 19 related patients but a lot of hospitals due to Covid 19 have had to cancel nearly all their 'elective' NON essential MONEY MAKER surgeries unless absolutely necessary.  

If I had to guess,  I bet over 1/2 the Covid 19 patients are on govt. funding or no insurance or means to pay their bills then the govt. kicks in and reduces the payout to hospitals drastically.  

[Serk]

Just to correct one point, of the 6,146 community hospitals in the USA, 1,296 are for profit.....

Source - https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals

[carolinarider09]

Thanks Serk.  I had not bothered to look that up.  I assumed the number was reversed (and yes, I know  )

Still, I do find it hard to believe that most hospitals don't work to make money.  So, how do they make ends meet?   I shall have to do some more research.  

Just a couple of searches and, here is what I found.

50 largest not for profit hospitals

57,607 Beds

50 largest for profit hospitals

22,055

My math might be off since there was not a total provided on the web pages I found so, I had to add them up manually.  

Roughly for every for profit bed there is/are 2.6 not for profit beds.  

Does that mean a not for profit hospital does not need a business model.   Just let the chips fall where they may?  Just asking.

[Jess from VA]

I'm no tax expert, but lots of not for profit organizations make barn-fulls of money.

And have very nice digs and pay people handsomely, and cannot be recognized as any different from any ordinary corporations.

They just have to be very very careful to keep their tax exempt status in accord with fed/state laws and regs.  Believe me, they have good business models.

It's hard to fault anyone or any organization that lawfully sidesteps big G taxes.

How do you tell the difference between not for profit or profit hospitals, when you still have to sell your house to save your life? 

[carolinarider09]

OK.  So, I did not want to really look it up but I did.   

What Is The Ideal Hospital Occupancy Rate?

The answer is… it depends. I like having a midnight census of about 85% on Monday through Wednesday. That 15% buffer allows us to overlap that day’s admissions with that day’s discharges in the afternoons and also give us rooms to put the new admission in while we are cleaning the recently vacated rooms. Thursdays and Fridays, I like a midnight census of 80%. On Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 75% is acceptable because our surgical floors are starting to empty out and we reduce scheduled nursing staff accordingly.

And as one would expect, Having the ICU at 100% occupancy and if the rest of the hospital is 75% the ER might have to go on "divert" status because of the ICU limitation.   Which means loss of intake of patients. 

The point of the question was, the news continually pushes the narrative that with the ICU at 85% hospitals are in trouble for potential admissions.  That, according the "blog" link below is not true.   

https://hospitalmedicaldirector.com/what-is-the-ideal-hospital-occupancy-rate/

[Moonshot_1]

OK.  So, I did not want to really look it up but I did.   

What Is The Ideal Hospital Occupancy Rate?

The answer is… it depends. I like having a midnight census of about 85% on Monday through Wednesday. That 15% buffer allows us to overlap that day’s admissions with that day’s discharges in the afternoons and also give us rooms to put the new admission in while we are cleaning the recently vacated rooms. Thursdays and Fridays, I like a midnight census of 80%. On Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 75% is acceptable because our surgical floors are starting to empty out and we reduce scheduled nursing staff accordingly.

And as one would expect, Having the ICU at 100% occupancy and if the rest of the hospital is 75% the ER might have to go on "divert" status because of the ICU limitation.   Which means loss of intake of patients. 

The point of the question was, the news continually pushes the narrative that with the ICU at 85% hospitals are in trouble for potential admissions.  That, according the "blog" link below is not true.   

https://hospitalmedicaldirector.com/what-is-the-ideal-hospital-occupancy-rate/

We need to compare apples to apples here.

In the normal course of events, 85% occupancy is perhaps ideal for a hospital. But lets take this virus out of the equation. A hospital is at 85% and the city is hit with a major earthquake. 85% isn't looking too good now.

I would think in an area heavily impacted by the virus that at a "norm" of 85% a hospital would be in trouble.

[Valkorado]

Since there's nothing unusual going on this year (nothing to see here, move along), I'm curious as to why we don't hear about hospitals being concerned about ICU limitations about this time every summer?

Oh yeah -- it's because they're manipulating the numbers this year to make profit from the virus and topple our President.  (sarcasm font utilized)

[carolinarider09]

We need to compare apples to apples here.

In the normal course of events, 85% occupancy is perhaps ideal for a hospital. But lets take this virus out of the equation. A hospital is at 85% and the city is hit with a major earthquake. 85% isn't looking too good now.

I would think in an area heavily impacted by the virus that at a "norm" of 85% a hospital would be in trouble.

I think that is the issue.  Hospitals, if you believe what's in the link, would like to be at 85% ICU (depending weekend/weekday) and 75% in the rest of the hospital.

It matters not what the event is, they only have 15% of their ICU beds open (again if you believe the website).  Any major event, fire, flood, volcano, tidal wave, major traffic accident, could challenge their occupancy. 

The virus is no different.  No way the hospital wants to keep its ICU beds at 50% just in case. 

[carolinarider09]

And that was the point of this thread.  To find documentation that shows that normal hospital ICU usage is around 85%. 

But, if you listen to the news and you would think they should be at a much lower occupancy level.  The MSM would have you believe that if ICU is at 85% we are deep dark dodo.  When such is the norm or the desire for most hospitals (if you believe the data pointed to by the links). 

Now I believe it is true that at the beginning of this event, hospitals did postpone many activities that would have required ICU beds.  We have all heard that supported by the MSM.

One piece of information we don't have is the number of cases (today, not yesterday) that are hospitalized and the number that require the ICU.  Its not something they seem to want to talk about. 

[John Schmidt]

I have no link to post, but this evening I heard some of the hospitals in Calif. are reporting near 90% occupancy. That by itself would seem to raise a red flag....maybe. Then you look at the breakdown and it turns out that on average only 20% or less are Covid related....but they don't tell you that. So much for honesty in reporting the news.  

I tend to think that's probably the majority of the situation throughout the country.

[scooperhsd]

We also DO NOT hear how many cases are terminated (either released from hospital / died) and HOW MANY ACTIVE CURRENT CASES are in the hospital right now (ok, so break it out by ICU / non-ICU). It would also be instructive if we heard how many total cases have been resolved ( breakout by dead / not dead). THEN we would have enough information to determine just how bad off we really are. I'll bet these are a deep, dark secret as well.

You should also break all these out by sex, age, race/ethnic and whatever else needs investigated (blood type, anyone ?)

Then there should be numbers on C19 cases that DID NOT result in a hospital stay and their recovered numbers.

[Moonshot_1]

Since there's nothing unusual going on this year (nothing to see here, move along), I'm curious as to why we don't hear about hospitals being concerned about ICU limitations about this time every summer?

Oh yeah -- it's because they're manipulating the numbers this year to make profit from the virus and topple our President.  (sarcasm font utilized)

What makes you think they are not concerned? The press is out of their minds about it but I'd believe the hospitals do what they can to manage occupancy during seasonal risks.

[Valkorado]

Since there's nothing unusual going on this year (nothing to see here, move along), I'm curious as to why we don't hear about hospitals being concerned about ICU limitations about this time every summer?

Oh yeah -- it's because they're manipulating the numbers this year to make profit from the virus and topple our President.  (sarcasm font utilized)

What makes you think they are not concerned? The press is out of their minds about it but I'd believe the hospitals do what they can to manage occupancy during seasonal risks.

I'm sure they do.  

I'm just saying you don't hear about hospitals running out of rooms during "average" summers.  Apparently a pandemic has some effect on occupancy.   Imagine that.