California moves to consider reparations for slavery

[Rams]

California moves to consider reparations for slavery

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/08/30/california-moves-to-consider-reparations-for-slavery/24604800/

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California lawmakers are setting up a task force to study and make recommendations for reparations to African Americans, particularly the descendants of slaves, as the nation struggles again with civil rights and unrest following the latest shooting of a Black man by police.

The state Senate supported creating the nine-member commission on a bipartisan 33-3 vote Saturday. The measure returns to the Assembly for a final vote before lawmakers adjourn for the year on Monday, though Assembly members overwhelmingly already approved an earlier version of the bill.

“Let's be clear: Chattel slavery, both in California and across our nation, birthed a legacy of racial harm and inequity that continues to impact the conditions of Black life in California,” said Democratic Sen. Holly Mitchell of Los Angeles.

She cited disproportionate homelessness, unemployment, involvement in the criminal justice system, lower academic performance and higher health risks during the coronavirus pandemic.


More to read at the link.

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Yeah, and they only have a $54 billion deficit.

One wonders how any State govt accounting officers (with these huge deficits) can possibly avoid racketeering statute and ponzi scheme prosecutions?  (of course the same can be said for the Fed G)

They can't even afford to issue IOU's.

It's even more confusing in places like CA where they apparently don't really need to keep up the huge Dem vote buying programs to keep them in power.  They keep getting voted in even though they are criminally insane.  Just habit I guess.

[Bret SD]

God I hate being stuck in this F'ing state..  I need to accelerate my exit strategy.

[phideux]

I'm descended from slaves, my relatives were held by the Tunisians before the USA was a country. We were slaves before the African Americans were, we should come first. Where are my reparations?
I'll even go cheap, we were enslaved by Muslims in the 15th century. If all the Muslims in the world, 1.8 billion of them, just send me a penny each, I will consider your reparations fulfilled.

[Patrick]

California ! Seems I remember this was a free state during the war between the states.
Reparations coming to a state that is broke, makes perfect sense from such a state.

I know this will be considered racist, but, where would these people now be living if this country never had slavery.

I doubt there is anyone living that is a direct descendant from that institution. Everyone is numerous generations removed.

To me reparations would be a one way ticket to the country of their choice with the stipulation to never be able to return.

[Rams]

Surely no one here really believes those state legislators plan on just the state of CA paying for this expense...………. 

Rams

[Bighead]

 

[da prez]

  W H Y  do the not address the real issue of todays human slave trade.  All this B S  rights are being violated is a cover up for an ongoing problem.  There are more people being sold and bought than you can ever imaging.
 Need a liver or heart , they are for sale.

                                             da prez

[John Schmidt]

Reparations: Payment made to people that were never slaves, paid for by people that never owned slaves.  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense....especially from a state that's already broke. 

[Oss]

Lets go one further in this insane game

Hebrews (sons of Jacob and children for 400 yrs) were slaves in Egypt, Since Christians owe their religion to Jesus, (who was a Jew) then should not all of us get reparations from the decendants of Hagar (Abraham's concubine)?  Good thing there is a lot of oil money to go around.

So  phideux  I will take a buck from everyone as well   What would I do with all those pennies?

[Patrick]

Reparations: Payment made to people that were never slaves, paid for by people that never owned slaves.  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense....especially from a state that's already broke. 

Exactly.

[Patrick]

I also think those reparation fanatics refuse to believe slavery was practically worldwide and long before we became a country. I've heard some of them insist this only occurred in America.

[Willow]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

[ridingron]

The next step in the "Great Society" plan?

[phideux]

Lets go one further in this insane game

Hebrews (sons of Jacob and children for 400 yrs) were slaves in Egypt, Since Christians owe their religion to Jesus, (who was a Jew) then should not all of us get reparations from the decendants of Hagar (Abraham's concubine)?  Good thing there is a lot of oil money to go around.

So  phideux  I will take a buck from everyone as well   What would I do with all those pennies?

I'd probably put all my pennies together and buy another motorcycle or 2.

[Alien]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

[Patrick]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

They wouldn't be living in America. Basically thats the point. At least thats the point I was trying to make.

[Patrick]

  W H Y  do the not address the real issue of todays human slave trade.  All this B S  rights are being violated is a cover up for an ongoing problem.  There are more people being sold and bought than you can ever imaging.
 Need a liver or heart , they are for sale.

                                             da prez

Thats true. Apparently it doesn't fit their agenda. These people just want more free chit.

[Alien]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

They wouldn't be living in America. Basically thats the point. At least thats the point I was trying to make.

I am still waiting for Willow's answer.  I don't know whether or not he's a racist but judging by his words, he does not seem to understand how racially insensitive his comment was.  He does not seem to understand that this is exactly the sort of statement that causes the anger that fuels the very protests that he opposes.

[Rams]

Regardless of place of origin, if one doesn't want to pull their own weight or their share, then I'm all for helping them go back to their "place of origin".   Doesn't matter who or what they are.   

As I've said many times previously, this nation is full of opportunity if, one is willing to go after it, work for it.   Some have more challenges than others but, where there's a will, there's a way.   

I know many who have accepted their status in life, so be it.   I also know many that went for their dream and achieved that goal.   IOWs, Be All You Can Be.

Rams

[shadowsoftime]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

How about the ones that sold them.

[Psychotic Bovine]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

They wouldn't be living in America. Basically thats the point. At least thats the point I was trying to make.

I am still waiting for Willow's answer.  I don't know whether or not he's a racist but judging by his words, he does not seem to understand how racially insensitive his comment was.  He does not seem to understand that this is exactly the sort of statement that causes the anger that fuels the very protests that he opposes.

Uh, I see nothing wrong with what he said.  And they don't need a reason to be angry. Someone told them to be angry and they are angry.  They don't know what they are even angry about.
I don't speak for Willow, but the truth is that Africans sold other Africans into slavery.  Sold by their own people.  Who is to say if there had not been any slavery where they would have ended up?  I see no racism at all in Willow's statement.  It was a fact, without bias. 

[Willow]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

No, there's no sarcasm.  I acknowledge that a large percentage of the descendants of slaves (well partial descendants) live in poverty in the U.S.  That poverty is well above the poverty a large percentage of the descendants of Africans in Africa who were not sold as slaves and brought to America.  Was the slave trade wrong?  Surely it was, at least by our current day standards.  Was the net effect good or bad for those who were victims of their black brothers 200 years ago.  I'm not certain anyone can prove that one way or the other.

Some of my ancestors died on the Trail of Tears.  Was that wrong?  Yes.  Was the net effect on me for the good or bad?  Would I be better off if the Europeans had never come to America?  I don't think so.  

Life is more complex than to say someone owes someone else for something that was done 200 years ago by one's great great grandparents to their great great great grandparents.

[Oss]

To continue my line of reasoning
joseph was sold by his brothers into slavery

When the family had to come to Egypt they did not know it was he who saved them until the big reveal

He forgave them  Life moves on  All those generations are long gone

Let is forgive each other and move on and judge each other by our deeds

Otherwise all we are is hateful people

[Patrick]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

How about the ones that sold them.

What about the ones that sold them ? Whats in that question ?
African tribes warred against each other, losers were taken prisoners and kept or sold as slaves.
The sellers profited.

[Jess from VA]

To continue my line of reasoning
joseph was sold by his brothers into slavery

When the family had to come to Egypt they did not know it was he who saved them until the big reveal

He forgave them  Life moves on  All those generations are long gone

Let is forgive each other and move on and judge each other by our deeds

Otherwise all we are is hateful people

Boy is that a breath of fresh air.   

[ridingron]

What about the ones that sold them ? What's in that question ?
African tribes warred against each other, losers were taken prisoners and kept or sold as slaves.
The sellers profited.     

That's the way things were done in those days. It was legal and accepted by many at that point in time. Unfortunately, still is in some places today. There is a legal phase, that slips my mind at the moment, about being charged for something you did yesterday when the law against it went into affect today. Things done in the past should not be judged (without perspective) by todays standards but learn from the events and try not to repeat them.

[carolinarider09]

Not a lawyer but might it be "Ex Post Facto"

x post facto laws retroactively change the rules of evidence in a criminal case, retroactively alter the definition of a crime, retroactively increase the punishment for a criminal act, or punish conduct that was legal when committed. They are prohibited by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution. An ex post facto law is considered a hallmark of tyranny because it deprives people of a sense of what behavior will or will not be punished and allows for random punishment at the whim of those in power.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Ex+Post+Facto+Laws

[shadowsoftime]

Honestly I think Patrick asked the right question.  If these people's ancestors (some of them) had not been brought to America they might be living in worse poverty in Africa.  Do they owe white folks (not me) reparations for the good thing that some of the white folks' ancestors did by purchasing slaves from African slavers?

Willow, Please explain.   I really need to understand what you're saying here before I react.  Are you actually suggesting that those who purchased slaves did a good thing or am I missing sarcasm here?

How about the ones that sold them.

What about the ones that sold them ? Whats in that question ?
African tribes warred against each other, losers were taken prisoners and kept or sold as slaves.
The sellers profited.

Who is the most to blame, supplier or dealer ?

[scooperhsd]

There is not a SINGLE person in the USA who was a slave in 1865 that is still alive today. You could probably state that about their children, and most probably their GRANDCHILDREN as well. It would not surprise me if you could go another generation or 2.

In general, the oldest that Humans seem to get to is just over 110 years (+/- 5 years). And the ones that make it THAT far have some good genes - extremely rare.

[Serk]

If they decide to move forward, it will be interesting to see how they decide who's black enough to receive these so-called reparations. I guess they could go to the system their ideological ancestors came up with?

Will they be establishing an Office for Race Classification? Or perhaps the Racial Hygiene and Demographic Biology Research Unit? There's a precedent for that ya' know...

Would not voting for Biden immediately disqualify someone as "not being black?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_Registration_Act,_1950

Sadly, looks like we're coming full circle. Everything old is new again. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Commission_of_Investigation_on_the_Poor_White_Question_in_South_Africa

[DirtyDan]

My grandad is from keystone West Virginia, I was born in Newark NJ

So I should identify as ?..........

Dan

[CoreyP]

I don't think CA had slaves? If so very few.

I live in the land of real Plantations from back in the day. My ancestors had land deeds from the King of England, the US wasn't created yet. My one side of the family did own slaves for a 100 years maybe more.

Those people were dead long before me and so were the slaves. What does this have to do with me? Nothing. My Grandfather's, Grandfather's, Grandfather may have owned slaves, I'm not sure without looking it up. It's probably even further back then that. 

I have no idea how you would even figure out who would have a claim?  In my area it wouldn't be hard because there are blacks with family names that go back to the plantation days. There is the white side of the family and the black side since the slaves got the owners last name. Many of them moved away long ago, not sure how you would figure out who was who? Every black person in this country did not descend from slaves. CA certainly didn't have a big population of them.

My other side of the family came from France during the French revolution. Apparently they had to leave or be beheaded.  Is France going to give me a check for my family lands that were lost? NO, I wouldn't expect them to. Just the way life goes.  All that had nothing to do with me as well and it happened so many generations ago.

The world is a violent place and every piece of land has been fought over. To the victor goes the spoils. The US didn't invent slavery, it was world wide for 1,000's of years but people in CA probably think South Carolina invented slavery.  Slavery still exists it hasn't gone away, maybe they should use their energy in that direction.   

[Alpha Dog]

What about the ones that sold them ? What's in that question ?
African tribes warred against each other, losers were taken prisoners and kept or sold as slaves.
The sellers profited.     

That's the way things were done in those days. It was legal and accepted by many at that point in time. Unfortunately, still is in some places today. There is a legal phase, that slips my mind at the moment, about being charged for something you did yesterday when the law against it went into affect today. Things done in the past should not be judged (without perspective) by todays standards but learn from the events and try not to repeat them.

One term would be zeitgeist.

Are we not blessed that one forum member has taken on the that grueling task of determining who and who is not a racist.  Maybe a list or you tube video will be offered as I for one need to know.  Now this would be sarcasm, a form of speech I learned at an early age from my Grandfather.  His roots are back to at least the Viking days when slavery was also quite prevalent, as it also was in Medieval Europe for the victors of battles.

[Patrick]

If they decide to move forward, it will be interesting to see how they decide who's black enough to receive these so-called reparations. I guess they could go to the system their ideological ancestors came up with?

Will they be establishing an Office for Race Classification? Or perhaps the Racial Hygiene and Demographic Biology Research Unit? There's a precedent for that ya' know...

Would not voting for Biden immediately disqualify someone as "not being black?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_Registration_Act,_1950

Sadly, looks like we're coming full circle. Everything old is new again. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Commission_of_Investigation_on_the_Poor_White_Question_in_South_Africa

That'll be interesting. Importation of slaves was banned in 1808 so plantations bred their own. And some of that breeding was with whites.

[Willow]

That'll be interesting. Importation of slaves was banned in 1808 so plantations bred their own. And some of that breeding was with whites.

Some?  Maybe most.  When you see a native African next to an African American you can see the distinct difference in appearance.  Those folks who make a big deal of Kamala Harris being descended from slave holders would have to confess that most African Americans are descended from slave holders in a similar way.

Hmm.  Do those folks owe reparation payments to themselves?

[Patrick]

That'll be interesting. Importation of slaves was banned in 1808 so plantations bred their own. And some of that breeding was with whites.

Some?  Maybe most.  When you see a native African next to an African American you can see the distinct difference in appearance.  Those folks who make a big deal of Kamala Harris being descended from slave holders would have to confess that most African Americans are descended from slave holders in a similar way.

Hmm.  Do those folks owe reparation payments to themselves?

Well, thats my question too. It muddies the water quite a bit. Can't wait to see if they try to figure that out.

Some plantations had as part of their business slave breeding. Black/black. Then most were sold.

Some tried to increase their number of slaves thru their own breeding. Black/black as well as white/black.

There are also some folks that don't want to hear that.

[RP#62]

According to the tax rolls, there were a significant number of free blacks that owned slaves as well.  Don't think their descendants  should be in the reparations line either.

-RP

[Patrick]

Yep. The first lawsuit concerning a 'slave' was filed by a free black landowner in the mid-late 1600's in Virginia against one of his black indentured servants.
The complaint stated that the landowner had so much money and time invested in the indentured servant that he could never get his moneys worth back that he should be indentured/given to him for life. Landowner won. Once word of this got around other such lawsuits took off like wildfire. And this didn't just happen to blacks, it also happened to whites.