What Would You Do

[carolinarider09]

A man is standing on the corner of a cross street in your small home town.  Its not a big town but there are people on the street moving from shop to shop or shop to cars parked along the street.  They can hear his words.

The man is shouting insults about one of your elected officials.  The elected official has been in office for only one term, has suffered through insults, both personal and political but has continued to do his job and your town has prospered. 

So, what do you do?

1.  Do you stop and try to have a conversation with the man on the corner.  Seek to use logic and facts to confront his rhetoric in hopes that you might change his mind?  Knowing full well that in doing so, you actually lend credence to what he is saying because as you do, others might stop to listen to you and thus embolden the man on the corner.

2.  Ignore the person, showing him no interest.  Treat him as if he was not there and in so doing minimize the impact of his outrageous statements.  Because in not responding, others will probably do the same.  Remembering it sometimes takes a crowd to make a point and it might be the reverse of what was intended. 

3. Report him to the authorities because his rhetoric could actually incite violence in some and might well be the intent of this person.   But knowing that political speech is protected speech and just because the words might make some take violent action the man is not suggesting you should take violent action. 

For the last several years, and more so in recent months, I have thought about this.  What would I do?  How would I respond. 

My response, has varied but today I have become more and more to the decision that, unless the man on the corner takes violent action against me or the ones I loved, he will be ignored my me.  I will not respond to his rhetoric or insults. 

I know, in doing that, it might lend credence to the man's words.  But I have come more and more to the belief that the intent of his words and actions are to incite, to sow discord and this split the community into us and them.  And that falls under the heading of "divide and conqueror".  Which we all know is not only a military axiom but a political axiom as well.

So,,,,,,,  What would you do? 

[Bret SD]

My pick,
2) Ignore him.. definitely.. he's already exposing himself as a kook. If he were sane he'd go through the proper channels to elicit some kind of change, or show up at community meetings to air his grievances.

[Rams]

#2 unless he brings violence to the situation and then, apply whatever measures are needed to bring the situation to an end.   

Get up on your soap box all you want, protest until your heart is content but, bring violence to my neighborhood or threaten my family/friends and you've crossed the line.   
There's some things you just don't do.   It was all I could take to watch someone burn our flag once, I had to walk away.  SCOTUS said it was freedom of speech.   I wanted to wrap that person in that flag, spray it was gas and then ask him if he wanted me to loan him a match.   

Rams

[Valkorado]

#2.  This is America.  I don't like what he's saying, but I love and cherish his right to say it.

[Jess from VA]

Make an anonymous call to the cops (on a pay phone if you can find one), and report a man openly trying to molest children in public.  Tell them to hurry.

Of course this is a crime (false police report), so don't do it.

Depending on his language and manner, you could make a legitimate call to report a man is acting deranged in public, talking to himself and getting worked up, and seemingly trying to start fights or incite violence with people.  He has not been violent yet, but that could change at any time.  It seems like public disorderly conduct to you (let them decide if it's perfectly free speech).  If they come, and discover he has left his psych ward, or has outstanding warrants, or unpaid child support, or has weapons on him, or whatever, win, WIN.  (bending the truth is not a clear crime like pure falsification - as MSM knows)

I agree with not confronting or trying logical discussion with him;  he is very obviously seeking attention, and you don't help him get it.  

[scooperhsd]

#2 unless he brings violence to the situation and then, apply whatever measures are needed to bring the situation to an end.   

Get up on your soap box all you want, protest until your heart is content but, bring violence to my neighborhood or threaten my family/friends and you've crossed the line.   
There's some things you just don't do.   It was all I could take to watch someone burn our flag once, I had to walk away.  SCOTUS said it was freedom of speech.   I wanted to wrap that person in that flag, spray it was gas and then ask him if he wanted me to loan him a match.   

Rams

This . Ignore him until he starts rioting / looting / damaging property / assaulting people that doesn't belong to him - if he does this, then it's time to shut him down immediately by any means necessary. This may mean bullets aimed to kill him.

[carolinarider09]

I know this post has only been here a short while, but the majority of answers selected Number 2, Ignore and pass on by unless threats are made and/or real actions take place.

One could easily equate this forum to a street corner in a small town.  With forum members as the residents of that small town. 

Yet, when someone obviously stands on the corner and starts making accusations and posting items that are obviously intended to incite or inflame, many of us are so quick to take some action.  Usually a response in writing. 

I must admit, until recent days, I was in that category.  But no longer.

I will not submit to those trying to stir up emotional responses because that is the intent, to make it emotionally, not factual. 

Facts do not matter, its what the spoken (or here on this forum, written) word can accomplish, whether truth or not, that is important. 

Don't succumb to these words.  Pass them on by. 

And yes, I have been schooled/taught what I suggest is not what we, as Americans, were should do.  We were taught to stand for freedom and stand against oppression. 

I suggest that today, right now, is a different time.  And while I think it will only last for a short few more months, it will continue until we stand together at the voting booths and make our choices. 

Just one person's opinion/observation and suggestion. 

[vanagon40]

"The backfire effect is a cognitive bias that causes people who encounter evidence that challenges their beliefs to reject that evidence, and to strengthen their support of their original stance. Essentially, the backfire effect means that showing people evidence which proves that they are wrong is often ineffective, and can actually end up backfiring, by causing them to support their original stance more strongly than they previously did."

https://effectiviology.com/backfire-effect-facts-dont-change-minds

[Chrisj CMA]

If I was on the bike I’d give a good long blast with the stebil horn as I went by him.

[shadowsoftime]

If I was on the bike I’d give a good long blast with the stebil horn as I went by him.

 

[Jess from VA]

Don't succumb to these words.  Pass them on by. 

I have suggested the same thing here a number of times Jim, and it hasn't worked (very well).  I thought about doing it again earlier today, but passed.

I guess some simply want or even relish the opportunity to argue with them.   Sometimes I read the argument and critique the give and take, sometimes I move on.  Nothing is decided and no one is converted. 

But trolling (creating an intentional argument) is rewarded with responses, and ultimately results in more trolling.  But not my me (mostly). 

Not that I won't step in and argue or discuss anything interesting.

[carolinarider09]

Don't succumb to these words.  Pass them on by. 

I have suggested the same thing here a number of times Jim, and it hasn't worked (very well).  I thought about doing it again earlier today, but passed.

I guess some simply want or even relish the opportunity to argue with them.   Sometimes I read the argument and critique the give and take, sometimes I move on.  Nothing is decided and no one is converted. 

But trolling (creating an intentional argument) is rewarded with responses, and ultimately results in more trolling.  But not my me (mostly). 

Not that I won't step in and argue or discuss anything interesting.

I agree Jess.  I have fallen into the same path or was it trap. 

Traps are set with an intent.  I look at statistics and say, why all of sudden is the person active when they were not for years and years?  I know the answer. 

And yes, there are times I will have to respond I am sure.  Today, I typed a couple of paragraphs before I said, to myself, "Do you really want to provide any credence to this person's post?"  Because, in making a response you fulfill their wish.

What kind of person gets personal gratification from doing such a thing?   

 

[Jess from VA]

What kind of person gets personal gratification from doing such a thing?   

I don't know Jim.

When I was about 6yo, a buddy of mine decided to throw his baseball bat at a hornets nest while I was just standing there. 

My mom said some boys just had the devil in them.   And I think she was right. 

While I was getting over the stings, I decided he wasn't my buddy anymore.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Don't succumb to these words.  Pass them on by. 

I have suggested the same thing here a number of times Jim, and it hasn't worked (very well).  I thought about doing it again earlier today, but passed.

I guess some simply want or even relish the opportunity to argue with them.   Sometimes I read the argument and critique the give and take, sometimes I move on.  Nothing is decided and no one is converted. 

But trolling (creating an intentional argument) is rewarded with responses, and ultimately results in more trolling.  But not my me (mostly). 

Not that I won't step in and argue or discuss anything interesting.

I agree Jess.  I have fallen into the same path or was it trap. 

Traps are set with an intent.  I look at statistics and say, why all of sudden is the person active when they were not for years and years?  I know the answer. 

And yes, there are times I will have to respond I am sure.  Today, I typed a couple of paragraphs before I said, to myself, "Do you really want to provide any credence to this person's post?"  Because, in making a response you fulfill their wish.

What kind of person gets personal gratification from doing such a thing?   

 

You guys bitch and moan about the guy on the corner speaking his mind when the subject is not aligned with yours. When the guy or guys are standing on the corner are aligned with your thinking (and there is a shitload of them) you guys are all up in that ! There seemed to be no issues with bashing Obama, calling him derogatory names, calling his wife and kids derogatory names for 8 years plus. Now that the tide has changed, it's considered stirring the pot. 

[..]

Don't succumb to these words.  Pass them on by.  

I have suggested the same thing here a number of times Jim, and it hasn't worked (very well).  I thought about doing it again earlier today, but passed.

I guess some simply want or even relish the opportunity to argue with them.   Sometimes I read the argument and critique the give and take, sometimes I move on.  Nothing is decided and no one is converted.  

But trolling (creating an intentional argument) is rewarded with responses, and ultimately results in more trolling.  But not my me (mostly).  

Not that I won't step in and argue or discuss anything interesting.

I agree Jess.  I have fallen into the same path or was it trap.  

Traps are set with an intent.  I look at statistics and say, why all of sudden is the person active when they were not for years and years?  I know the answer.  

And yes, there are times I will have to respond I am sure.  Today, I typed a couple of paragraphs before I said, to myself, "Do you really want to provide any credence to this person's post?"  Because, in making a response you fulfill their wish.

What kind of person gets personal gratification from doing such a thing?  

 

I'm guessing 2  below your post.  

[carolinarider09]

Just for the record, again,

When the guy on the corner is saying something I agree with, I would have the same response.  I might stand and listen but probably not. 

Now, what I did not say or make part of my simile (I think that is the right term) is the perceived motivation of the man on the corner.  His demeanor, his dress, his use of words, is he local or is he from outside of the community?  Such things are hard to determine but, word use, presence on the corner over a period of time, can help make that determination. 

In my simile I also left out the notion of motivation.  There are two types of motivation that the man on the corner can have.  One is the need to educate, to speak facts, not to twist facts to his end but simply stating facts without bias or preconceived implications. 

Some facts are easy to see through.  For instance, saying that the car is red, is a statement of fact (if the car is actually red  ).  But when you say the car was painted red this has the possibility for preconceived reasons for painting the car red.  Was the car blue before it was painted?  Was it red and re-painted? 

The other possible motivation is to incite, through words, to sow discontent, through words, and in sowing discontent, the man on the corner is to be despised.  We should all despise those whose intent in speaking words is to cause trouble.  In the case of the red car, the man might say "and who do you think made that car red and why did he make it red instead of blue, the correct color for such a car". 

I have no problem with the man on the corner speaking truth as he knows it (or as he understands it).  I have a problem with the man on the corner, speaking words with the intent of causing/creating a specific negative response. 

[old2soon]

      The poll I started has already been pulled. While I was busy this afternoon I can Only Guess as to the why of said poll being pulled. And the Truly sad part-my poll being pulled did Not surprise me in the least. My Brother da prez splained thusly-whenn rasslin with a pig after awhile you begin to understand the pig likes too rassle. RIDE SAFE.

[Oss]

Sorry for the long(ish) post

For the last 6 weeks, Thursdays at noon I am outside the Bronx Supreme Court with whatever clients show up holding signs saying Open the Court,  or Landlords are People  or Cuomo send Help for Small Landlords

One week I was alone , was called different names

Today only two clients showed up, along with the young man we met last week  I was interviewed along with one client by a reporter.




Often we get people honking and giving us a thumbs up as they drive by. Pedestrians speak with us and no angry words are exchanged

Today, as most weeks, a few people who are clearly troubled (some might say a few slices short of a loaf) would ramble and yell mostly unintelligible words

My response is "yes you are right we are all people and God bless you too"

Surprisingly the people stop and smile and say thank you.  Maybe not surprisingly after all

We all are people. We all have a right to speak if we do not incite violence against each other

Sometimes though the answer must be 2  You must walk your walk as you see fit I will walk mine

[cookiedough]

no. 2 all the way let him/her talk and keep a walking on by pretty much ignoring it all.

As long as they do not touch me or get right up into my grill, I could care less. 

reminds me of the time I got propositioned, remember I am from small town of 1100 never seen a guy dressed as a girl,  and in Washington DC one morning a black male in red female dress was playing hooker and I was not falling for whatever he was trying to say to me.   I kept on walking right on by even though he (or she) kept blabbering my way asking for a hookup.  I was literally laughing my keester off at this guy since found it very funny.  Just glad I did not laugh right away so close to him for he was bigger than me and might have gotten beaten up a black male in a female dress..

[scooperhsd]

Sorry for the long(ish) post

For the last 6 weeks, Thursdays at noon I am outside the Bronx Supreme Court with whatever clients show up holding signs saying Open the Court,  or Landlords are People  or Cuomo send Help for Small Landlords

One week I was alone , was called different names

Today only two clients showed up, along with the young man we met last week  I was interviewed along with one client by a reporter.




Often we get people honking and giving us a thumbs up as they drive by. Pedestrians speak with us and no angry words are exchanged

Today, as most weeks, a few people who are clearly troubled (some might say a few slices short of a loaf) would ramble and yell mostly unintelligible words

My response is "yes you are right we are all people and God bless you too"

Surprisingly the people stop and smile and say thank you.  Maybe not surprisingly after all

We all are people. We all have a right to speak if we do not incite violence against each other

Sometimes though the answer must be 2  You must walk your walk as you see fit I will walk mine

Absolutely. Peaceful protest (freedom of speech) is protected by the 2nd Amendment. You can protest whatever you want - as long as you do it peacefully.

[scooperhsd]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

[Oss]

About every other car is a livery vehicle  Would be nuts to do that

We are on the safety island and on the corners only

As I said after I went down on the bike once    I DONT BOUNCE WELL ANYMORE

And the free expression is guaranteed by the 1st amendment

The 2nd enables us to defend ourselves if necessary

[Rams]

Spent some time thinking about this.
While I agree with Carolinarider to a great extent, all of us should be bright enough to not allow ourselves to be drawn in to a insult trading "discussion", I have no issues with someone standing up for what they believe in.  I also believe that no one here is going to change their opinions based on what they read here.   There is no doubt I have been involved in some "discussions" that ended up being locked and or deleted.   I honestly hope my  contributions to those threads was not the reason the end result was what it was.

I make it a rule to not start any name calling and don't believe I'm guilty of that but, as I always say, that depends on one's perspective.   The important thing to remember is, it takes (at least) two to have an argument.

Rams

[The emperor has no clothes]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

You would rather run over a crowd of people than just turn down a different street ?

[shadowsoftime]

A couple of people are down right pathetic.

[DirtyDan]

Something happens to the wounded alright

So a little birdie told me

Dan

[Alien]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

Really? What a horrible thing to think, much less express publicly. If you think running people down is an appropriate response to having a road blocked, I would suggest that you share that opinion with someone in the mental health profession and see what they have to say about it.

[DirtyDan]

Hey Alien GIGGLE SNORT CHUCKLE !

Speaking truth to power

I waited till they put themselves back together again

Then I asked if we were done..... we were

Dan

[scooperhsd]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

You would rather run over a crowd of people than just turn down a different street ?

SOmetimes there isn't another path to take. LIke when they are trying to block an interstate.

[The emperor has no clothes]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

You would rather run over a crowd of people than just turn down a different street ?

SOmetimes there isn't another path to take. LIke when they are trying to block an interstate.

I hope you are never confronted with having to make decision whether to mow down protestors in your vehicle. Let's just hope you are more bark than bite. 

[cookiedough]

And on the Original post - I'm fine with you protesting AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT IMPEDING MY TRAVEL TO WHERE I NEED TO GO .  You get a collection of people trying to block the road - I just might run all of you down... And not stop to help with the wounded.

Really? What a horrible thing to think, much less express publicly. If you think running people down is an appropriate response to having a road blocked, I would suggest that you share that opinion with someone in the mental health profession and see what they have to say about it.

Well,  bonehead protestors in Madison WI blocked the main artery beltline traffic vs. staying safe down by the Capital building where they should have been and stayed there.  If those idiots, yes I called the protestors idiots because that is what they were,  have the right to block the busiest beltline road in the city they deserve to get hit.  My opinion take it the way anyone wants.  Hey, lets stand in front of moving busy traffic cars doing 65 mph and see if protesting is worth it when you are 6 feet under dirt.  

[Oss]

Maybe if blocking an interstate intentionally was a felony that citizens could effect citizens arrests using non deadly force things could change

Also fine should be huge with confiscation of vehicle driven to event

If you are going to a hospital with a patient and some idiot wont move, and smacking the windshield of my car why yes I would hit them after yelling at them to move because I have an injured person or what if driving a person in labor to hospital or transporting organ for transplant  But that is the only way that would happen  Otherwise my WAZE would route me around

It is ok to cause deadly harm to a person committing a felony that endangers life IMHo

The only exception I would hold would be post apocalyptic where a town and its citizens together decide they must purposely block an interstate to avoid contagion, or looting

[carolinarider09]

Update:

At the start of this post and question, I carefully avoided the notion of more than one person at the intersection. 

Mainly because it is what I see happening here on this board more often than in past months.

If someone wants to start a separate thread on a loud group of men/people on the corner impeding foot traffic, feel free to ask that question. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Update:

At the start of this post and question, I carefully avoided the notion of more than one person at the intersection.  

Mainly because it is what I see happening here on this board more often than in past months.

If someone wants to start a separate thread on a loud group of men/people on the corner impeding foot traffic, feel free to ask that question.  

Update:

98% of posts here drift. Maybe we as a collective  have a short attention span. But, if you find it distasteful, I would reconsider starting a post soliticing opinions.

[carolinarider09]

Ahhh,,,,,,

The notion is simply that.  The post was started asking a simple question.  After awhile it did drift.  While I have no specific rights or privileges on this board, other than a poster, I thought I might suggest that this post was drifting and as the OP I might ask that if you want to discuss a different subject or circumstance, you should start a new post. 

That would seem to be the best course of action. 

But again, I have no control over content other than I can suggest that the content is drifting away from my original topic.

[Valkorado]

Thread drift is more rule than exception around here.  It happens more often than not.

[Robert]

Man standing on corner is not going to be in our lives everyday. He does not necessarily want to share which is your point, but this board is different, like totally.

If I had to live with or see the man on the corner everyday and interact with him to get to where I wanted to be it would be a whole different experience and way to proceed. One day my options are totally different than seeing the same person everyday.

The problem is not the sharing of ideas, but the willingness to change position on a dug in point or idea. The jabs are incendiary and sometimes its hard to see if there is a legitimate opening in discussion of ideas or its just that a jab.

Avoidance only works so far, especially like when a heckler is in a crowd and someone is trying to give a speech. One outbreak and you can let it go but as time goes on the heckler interjects themselves in every other word or talk and changes the whole thing.

Rosannadannadanna is a great example, a person just different

Roseanne Roseannadanna on King Tut - SNL
https://youtu.be/k59d-xMvooA

[carolinarider09]

Robert,

A very interesting and enlightening reply and one with which I do agree. 

And I had forgotten (I am old remember) about the term "Heckler".  I had another term in mind but "Heckler" fits in the cases I am envisioning. 

[Oss]

Back in the last millenium 1972, my father took us to London on the way back from my only trip to Israel

At Hyde Park on Sunday anyone (and I mean anyone) with a shoebox could stand and spout, pontificate and exclaim for several hours to their heart content  If one does not agree simply walk to another persons site and listen then walk away again

It was both un nerving and interesting to say the least

Perhaps we as a society have lost the magic that enables one to speak without being beaten or ridiculed or worse.   I do not recall anyone calling for violence but as I said it was years ago  No idea if that still goes on today

Interesting post and drifts  thanks for posting Carolina

[..]

Back in the last millenium 1972, my father took us to London on the way back from my only trip to Israel

At Hyde Park on Sunday anyone (and I mean anyone) with a shoebox could stand and spout, pontificate and exclaim for several hours to their heart content  If one does not agree simply walk to another persons site and listen then walk away again

It was both un nerving and interesting to say the least

Perhaps we as a society have lost the magic that enables one to speak without being beaten or ridiculed or worse.   I do not recall anyone calling for violence but as I said it was years ago  No idea if that still goes on today

Interesting post and drifts  thanks for posting Carolina

I went there a few times when I lived in London but over the years the whackadoodelry got more and more extreme regarding race, religion and politics.

https://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/hyde-park/things-to-see-and-do/speakers-corner