Burning Oil and Fouling plugs

[Rettic]

Quick back story to cover what I have done to this beast.

I got my 1999 Valkyrie Tour back in January 2020 from a shop near by and I got it relatively cheap, $3500 so I was feeling pretty good.  I looked it over for all the usual issues on test ride and had found the usual: Small amount of coolant from the radiator hose on top of the engine (tightened the clamp it stopped), little puff of oil from the left side when starting cold (normal).  I then rode it home and fell in love with her. 

I then started working through the Valk from the front to back replacing all the 20 year old rubber stuff and consumables: New Tires, braided brake lines, rebuilt all the calipers, clutch master/slave, fork seals, put in progressive springs (being a larger man, these are great), new windshield (one it came with had been cut down), found the read drive shaft splines and cup were rusty and almost completely worn, surprisingly the final drive splines and wheel splines were mint, desmoged.  Everything except the carbs and I let those be because my mileage is good, start/idles great, and will go through them properly this winter on down time.   

Fast forward a few months and she starts to do more than puff smoke only at start up.  First red flag, riding mountain roads and the guy I was riding with say at the first fill up, man that thing smells like it is burning oil pretty good.  I asked him to watch and see if he can tell when it is happening.  Basically every time we come out of a corner with heavy engine braking there is a puff of blue smoke. When cruising at a constant speed it isn't too bad but at 70/80 mph you aren't going to see/smell much.

So on to the problem I am having:
Over the last 4k miles I have put on it has used about 1/2-2/3 quarts of oil.  Which as I am told by many Valkyrie owners is odd.  I pull the spark plugs a few 1000 miles back and notice the front left spark plug is black and wet with oil, no smell of gas.  She runs fine so I just watch the oil level and continue to ride.  A few weeks back we were riding 421 The Snake in TN and she start to stumble real back on the way up the mountian. I pull over and check for the usual fuel leaks ect and then finally pull that front plug, it is fouled up something awful.  So I grab a playing card and knock all the oil residue off and ride on.   I am at this point thinking it is valve seals because the only time this is really noticeable is on winding roads where there is a lot of high vacuum riding (engine braking). 

I replaced the valve seals 50 miles ago and it didn't help.  Plug is still wet with oil when all the others are looking nice and golden.  I ran compression tests and that front cylinder is a little lower than the others 140psi and the others are around 150-155.  Ran a leakdown test (first time doing this so could have doing it wrong) and it seems the same amount of noise comes from the oil fill as the other cylinders but couldn't be certain. And the leak level said moderate on the oil burning cylinder.  The others said normal.

What are my next options?   Should I run 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil for a few hundred miles in the oil?  Soak the cylinder with ATF or MMO for a few days? New Piston Rings (yikes!)? 

I love this bike, it is amazing in the twisties, it is so comfy on the free way, but at this point I am really aggravated by the oil burning.  I spent way too much time and money so far.  She is going to be forever known as the money pit and cost as much as a new bike at this point. And my riding friends keep asking why I just didn't buy a harley. 

Couple of images showing what happens when I rev in the garage after a 20 mile ride. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Next thing would be a compression test. Worst case scenario it’s rings and maybe piston.

[Rettic]

Next thing would be a compression test. Worst case scenario it’s tings and maybe piston.

Already did one, 140 on the oil burning cylinder, 150-155 on the others.   Looking for advice on what to try to free up the rings, or how to avoid the not fun of tearing the whole engine down to get rings done.

Fun images using my bore scope.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Being that you did a desmog, I wonder if you got the air box plugged correctly and the breather hose and tank back correctly. Drained the dragon drool hose ?

[Chrisj CMA]

Being that you did a desmog, I wonder if you got the air box plugged correctly and the breather hose and tank back correctly. Drained the dragon drool hose ?

Did you even look at his pictures?

[Chrisj CMA]

I don’t think there is any other option. Looks like a hone job and new rings. Hopefully the piston is ok but at that point it’s not a huge deal

[98valk]

rings are most likely just carbon/gummed up.  running premium can do this or most likely cheap oil and/or poor oil changes, from previous owner/s

so either a high synthetic ester based oil, such as redline or http://www.auto-rx-plus.com/   to clean the rings.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Being that you did a desmog, I wonder if you got the air box plugged correctly and the breather hose and tank back correctly. Drained the dragon drool hose ?

Did you even look at his pictures?

I did. What did you determine from them ?

[Chrisj CMA]

Being that you did a desmog, I wonder if you got the air box plugged correctly and the breather hose and tank back correctly. Drained the dragon drool hose ?

Did you even look at his pictures?

I did. What did you determine from them ?

That there is a definite problem in that cylinder not the air box or de smog

[Rettic]

I think (don't quote me) that if it was desmog/air box all 6 would show some signs of oil burning and you would see blue smoke from both pipes.  I might take some more scope pictures of one of the other cylinders and post them so I/we can compare how they look. 

[sandy]

Blue smoke means the exhaust valve guide seal is bad. Black smoke is either intake seal or rings are bad.

[Rettic]

Blue smoke means the exhaust valve guide seal is bad. Black smoke is either intake seal or rings are bad.

I replaced all the valve seals and the problem persists.  Tired the cheap way first. It is a 2 hours job once i figured it out.   

Black Smoke is running rich, not burning oil.  Oil burns Blue no matter where it is coming from.  (Messed up a ring job on my XS1100 a few years ago, learned this fact real quick.)
 

[Itinifni]

I think you're on the right track as far as looking at another cylinder with the scope.

The cylinder wall looks ok to me in the photos you posted, no significant scoring in the area of the photo and I can still see the cross-hatch though I can't tell if we're looking at the thrust side.

The top of the piston concerns me though. I haven't looked at the pistons in my Valk but plenty of other engines. Usually you can clearly see the machine marks on the top of the piston if it's clean, otherwise a smooth carbon coating. Yours looks to me like there's some foreign material in the cylinder, lots of small, irregular impact marks and almost no carbon.

[Rettic]

The top of the piston concerns me though. I haven't looked at the pistons in my Valk but plenty of other engines. Usually you can clearly see the machine marks on the top of the piston if it's clean, otherwise a smooth carbon coating. Yours looks to me like there's some foreign material in the cylinder, lots of small, irregular impact marks and almost no carbon.

I think those are casting marks.  My XS is the same on the top of the pistons because they are cast not forged.   Pulling up an image from ebay other pistons look the same. 

[Rettic]

I started a Marvel Mystery Oil soak for 48 hours.  The one pain about a boxer engine, how do you soak a piston from the top?   ???
After the soak, oil change and then trying out http://www.auto-rx-plus.com/ for the next change.   I will ride through the winter and see if it gets the rings unstuck and see if it saves me a rebuild.

[Madmike]

does the compression go up if you give it a shot of oil in the cylinder??

[h13man]

That plug looks like mine when they foul out @ 10,000 mi. Some folk say BS but it happened twice now in 33,000 mi. almost 10,000 mi. mark every time. Not saying this is the problem but... Using oil in perspective on these notoriously reliable machines I would look into if its breathing right as mentioned.

[Rettic]

Quick update
Completed the Marvel Mystery Oil soak, did a full oil change and added Auto RX to the oil using the instructions on the bottle (2 bottles for an oil change).  It is now smoking even more than before, but appears to be normal with the Auto RX treatment as it does its cleaning.  I have put on 400 miles already on the oil change and there is a lot of smoke, but I have not seen a noticeable drop in the oil level yet.   Got a few more longer rides planned for this fall so we will see.   

On a side note, anyone on here rebuild these engines?  Figure I would put out feelers now if this doesn't work. 

[Valsvik]

How did this go. What is the end of this story ?

[h13man]

Dated 10-07-2020. 

[Doug B.]

I could give a rip about the date! i was interested.....

Dated 10-07-2020. 

[h13man]

Really? So why the the attitude as I see you haven't any input other than this rudeness? 

We have people start a thread all the time and never do a follow up unless they need help again but most the time folks answer and are cordial enough to say thank you.