Found a third engineering blunder by Honda.

[John Schmidt]

Some are easy to work around but others are ridiculously difficult if not nearly impossible. The alternator is one of those difficult items that can be worked around but still a PITA. Simply shouldn't be that way. The last few days I've been struggling with the seat latch. The cable sleeve keeps dropping out of the upper holding slot, thereby making the latch inoperable. The cable needed replacing so after doing that it's impossible to insert the upper end into the latch....assuming you don't have baby size hands and 14" fingers. After many hours of trial and error, I did get the cable inserted into the latch and have the center cover back in place....only to find the upper end of the sleeve has again slipped out of its holding slot. Result....inop again. So, after all the wasted time I'm simply going to make up a short cable with a loop on one end and the lead plug on the other to insert into the latch. Then just run the cable out over the top of the center cover so when I need to remove the seat, just pull on the loop and unlatch the seat. If only Honda had made a POSITIVE method of holding the sleeve in place I wouldn't do this but I'm done messing with it. You won't be able to see the cable so doubtful anyone will use it. If they do, go for it....I've got $10k of accessory insurance if someone steals the seat. I've wasted more time on the alternator and this fool latching system than it took to rebuild the motor on my 1200 Wing.

[John Schmidt]

UPDATE: Got the cable loop made and clamped together, works like a charm and once tucked up under the tank you can't see it. I left the key operated latch in place, just cut the cable off at the lock. Then pulled the cable out of the sleeve, created a loop on the outer end and clamped it together. I have the big clamping tool and the stuff for it so that sucker isn't coming apart. I still have to fix the same problem on the old bike before selling it next spring, I might do the same thing and tell the new owner what I did. If they want it back to OEM, they can have the fun trying to fix it. Sliced the back of my hand open in the process just to add to the fun this afternoon.

I have one beer left in the fridge, I think now is a good time to dispense with the contents....been in there for nearly 6 months. Guess I'm not a heavy drinker, it's only a 7oz bottle so I might even get brace and finish it. 

[JimC]

You won't be able to see the cable so doubtful anyone will use it. If they do, go for it....I've got $10k of accessory insurance if someone steals the seat.

John,
You may be sorry you said that, you know how much I  (and many others) like that seat!

Jim

[John Schmidt]

Good Evening, John.  If that broke on my bike, I might try mounting a magnet in there.   That's how a refrigerator door stays closed, except for the real old ones.

The cable sleeve is too stiff, it would pop out the first time you tried to use the key. I even tried some JB Weld to hold it in place to no avail. Two problems exist in that area; you can't see what you're doing due to the location, and you can't get at it even if you could see it. Just note where the latch opening is and go forward about 3" or so. That's where the slot is that holds the upper end of the sleeve. It's tucked up underneath that metal slightly rearward of the tank bolt, I was even contemplating cutting out a section of that metal bracing just to gain some access. The sleeve has a plastic or nylon tip on it with a groove molded into it that slides into the notch that holds it. Once removed from either the key end or the upper end near the latch, the groove no longer holds since it's not a positive capture. It's a foolish system at best that works great until you have to repair the cable or latch by removing it. It simply needs a positive way to capture the end of the cable sleeve....and a way to access that area as well.

[Bagger John - #3785]

The latch and cable on my 2000 Tourer would occasionally give me fits. The assemblies on the other four 1500 Valks I've owned have never hiccuped.

[Avanti]

Try this method. Remove seat latch. Attach correct cable end to the seat latch and the other cable end to the keyed cylinder after cylinder is in its proper location in the center cover. Feed the latch up from underneath the fuel tank to its proper location and reattach.

[Chrisj CMA]

Some are easy to work around but others are ridiculously difficult if not nearly impossible. The alternator is one of those difficult items that can be worked around but still a PITA. Simply shouldn't be that way. The last few days I've been struggling with the seat latch. The cable sleeve keeps dropping out of the upper holding slot, thereby making the latch inoperable. The cable needed replacing so after doing that it's impossible to insert the upper end into the latch....assuming you don't have baby size hands and 14" fingers. After many hours of trial and error, I did get the cable inserted into the latch and have the center cover back in place....only to find the upper end of the sleeve has again slipped out of its holding slot. Result....inop again. So, after all the wasted time I'm simply going to make up a short cable with a loop on one end and the lead plug on the other to insert into the latch. Then just run the cable out over the top of the center cover so when I need to remove the seat, just pull on the loop and unlatch the seat. If only Honda had made a POSITIVE method of holding the sleeve in place I wouldn't do this but I'm done messing with it. You won't be able to see the cable so doubtful anyone will use it. If they do, go for it....I've got $10k of accessory insurance if someone steals the seat. I've wasted more time on the alternator and this fool latching system than it took to rebuild the motor on my 1200 Wing.

Ok. You say the alternator and seat latch cable are engineering blunders. I don’t know about all that.  I’ve done lots of alternators. First one was kinda hard. But soon you get the hang of it. I’ve removed a couple seat latch mechanisms and replaced them without issue so I may not have done the same job you were faced with but the system seemed sensible.

What is number 3?

[John Schmidt]

Try this method. Remove seat latch. Attach correct cable end to the seat latch and the other cable end to the keyed cylinder after cylinder is in its proper location in the center cover. Feed the latch up from underneath the fuel tank to its proper location and reattach.

If it were that easy I wouldn't have spent a miserable afternoon trying to do it. Attaching the upper end of the cable to the latch I found to be impossible without removing the upper end of the cable sleeve from its holding slot. I didn't give up easily, I tried for hours to get the cable inserted into the latch...to no avail. After releasing the sleeve from its holding slot, I was able to get the cable in place and the latch reinstalled. Next step is to now press the upper end of the sleeve back into its holding slot....easy enough. Problem is, once it's removed it doesn't stay in place when you reinsert it into that slot. Tried time and time again and gave up, my patience only lasts for the first two dozen tries.

Jeff, re. the two items I called blunders(don't recall what I said was a third one), I still maintain they are blunders simply because it shouldn't be that difficult to work with in any case. Both issues I've posted about were an absolute nightmare, although I did find out the cause of my problem re. the alternator. Still wasn't that easy but finally got it done. The latch removal and reinstall is easy, inserting the cable before or after latch mounting...not so much. As described elsewhere, once the cable sleeve is removed and upon reinstalling it, it doesn't want to stay in place because it's not a solid capture of the end of the sleeve. If the sleeve drops out of the holding slot up by the latch, the key is useless because it won't release the latch. On the trike, I simply made a cable with a loop on the end and tucked it up under the tank, the other end in the latch. Works fine and I'm not going to attempt to put it back into OEM configuration even though a new cable with a new sleeve might cure the problem. At this point I'm fed up with it. Besides....temps are in the upper 20s to low 30s, so looks like the bike and trike are going to sit until about April. 

[2KVISRiderDan]

John, fuel enrichment (choke) lever on left handlebar the third blunder?

[John Schmidt]

John, fuel enrichment (choke) lever on left handlebar the third blunder?

Yup! You've seen my version/modification...right? 

[Avanti]

How about, “the Valkyrie” continues to be the best all around motorcycle and after more than 20 years, has more than likely surpassed even Joe Boyd’s expectations.

Yes, everything can have improvements made to it and that is exactly what most long time owners have been doing.

How often do you come across another 20+ year old motorcycle crossing hundreds of miles and doing it with Style and Ease.

[JimC]

How about, “the Valkyrie” continues to be the best all around motorcycle and after more than 20 years, has more than likely surpassed even Joe Boyd’s expectations.

Yes, everything can have improvements made to it and that is exactly what most long time owners have been doing.

How often do you come across another 20+ year old motorcycle crossing hundreds of miles and doing it with Style and Ease.

 

[Chrisj CMA]

How about, “the Valkyrie” continues to be the best all around motorcycle and after more than 20 years, has more than likely surpassed even Joe Boyd’s expectations.

Yes, everything can have improvements made to it and that is exactly what most long time owners have been doing.

How often do you come across another 20+ year old motorcycle crossing hundreds of miles and doing it with Style and Ease.

Exactly. Mine is a first year going on 24 years old getting close to 175,000 miles. I bought a choke cable a few years ago anticipating it breaking. It never did, works perfect. I’ve changed the alternator a few times now. 5 min to get it out 5 min to put it back in. Never had to mess with the seat cable as it still works as designed. The only thing I detest is the OE petcock. I know some of you have gone many years with no problems but that was not my experience. I also wish the final dive design was more robust. But with great care it will last a long time.

[John Schmidt]

OK guys, first you all need to know I agree with the opinion of the Valkyrie being one of the best, if not the very best, bikes made or at least owned by me. That doesn't mean some mistakes weren't made on an otherwise engineering marvel...which I feel it is. Chris, if you can R&R an alternator in just a few minutes...congrats to you. However, the bottom of my shoes still get wet. As for the seat latch, it was an unusual thing indeed that caused my problem, but getting the outer cable sleeve to stay in place once removed turned out to be impossible. It lacked a positve method of retaining after being removed and replaced. Telling me how easy it was for someone else doesn't change my experience....or opinion. Same goes for the alternator and if anyone had read what turned out to be the reason for my troubles re. the alternator, you wouldn't be making these comments.

As for the Valkyrie being the best all-around bike after all these years, I'll agree with exceptions....and those exceptions strangely enough happen to be Hondas as well. I personally have owned early Wings with mileage in excess of 250k(the majority was mine) and one I know had nearly double that last time I saw it. For me the Valk has been the most trouble free ride I've ever owned, bar none. So if I happen to express an opinion on something....it's just that, my opinion based on personal experience. Telling me the choke cable never caused a problem for you doesn't remove the fact it did for me....and others.

One point needs to be made. Being referred to as having an "elitist" attitude by one individual is a bit like the "pot calling the kettle black." I've read many of his comments posted aimed at those with problems with their bikes and calling my attitude elitist is child's play in comparison. Those posted comments are often downright sarcastic and others on the board have called you on it. If someone has a problem with their bike and are new to the Valk, they're looking for advice and information....not ridicule. By the same token, if someone has a problem and are experienced with the Valk, the same thing applies...plus the fact you're not there and you don't see the problem first hand.

Referring to recent issues as "engineering blunders" may have been a bit strong for some of you, until you realize the level of frustration I had reached at the time for something that could have been easily corrected in the design stage. That doesn't turn me into Captain Hook or the like. If you've never been in that same position while working on your bike....kudos to you. I don't believe it but kudos anyway. Whenever faced with challenges, be it on the Valk or elsewhere, I usually either find a solution to the problem or a reason why it can't be accomplished. I've been twisting wrenches longer than many of you have been alive, my first big "experiment" was on a Model T truck engine when I was age 13. I totally disassembled it and the transmission, rebuilt/replaced what was needed and put it all back together. And it ran like a charm....a rather noisy charm however.    My point is I have some experience...not all encompassing but experience nonetheless which has served me well over the years. As for all the criticism, they're like farts in the wind. So....carry on. 

[Bagger John - #3785]

Having worked in various engineering roles during my (ongoing) career, I can assure the followers of this thread that no engineering-to-production decision is made in a vacuum.

Honda didn't employ a junior mechanical engineering intern to design the seat latch mechanism on his or her own, with said person operating in the dark. At the very least, those designs are prototyped then peer-reviewed and subject to a battery of pre-production QA exercises before release-to-manufacturing (RTM) occurs.

The fact that there were 10,000+ Valkyries built and only a few experience the issue described by the OP is both a testament to the engineering staff AND the part-source QA procedures.

Alternators: Let's see the board design a better way of doing this. Oil bath, as with the GL1000/1100/1200 motors? Cooked stators and a right regular PITA to change. Where else are you going to park the alternator that doesn't become cumbersome to the rider or require additional (failure-prone) drive systems? Maybe lengthen the frame a little to ease servicing? That adds weight and screws up the handling by virtue of lengthening the wheelbase.

Honda's engineers knew exactly what they were doing with this machine - and while some parts could arguably have been made more robust, do you want to pay for it in terms of increased weight and MSRP?

[Fazer]

I know this is not optimal, but the plastic securing the hoop on my Ultimate seat broke.  After trying unsuccessfully to JB Weld it back, it kept breaking.  I rode for a couple of years before I finally bought a new seat.  Never had a problem, and of course in a get off situation, not going to matter much.  My son is using the seat now, and still will not latch.  Of course, it can be easily stolen, but in all my riding I can't remember a time my bike, helmet, jacket etc was messed with just sitting on the bike.  Not saying it doesn't or can't happen.

[John Schmidt]

Having worked in various engineering roles during my (ongoing) career, I can assure the followers of this thread that no engineering-to-production decision is made in a vacuum.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Totally agree, however my problem wasn't with the seat latch mechanism(which is trouble free) but the cable sleeve retention as described. As for the alternator R&R, the blame for my difficulty falls to the factory installation of the trike kit, again as described.

'Nuff said on this whole thing....it's gone from the ridiculous to the sublime....and back. 

[ridingron]

John-If it's any consolation for you, I had/have the same problem with the seat release. After several attempts at several different times, I gave up. My seat now sets on my bike unlocked. It doesn't slip or slide around. I also had a very similar problem on my other Honda made ST1100. The seat has been unlocked on it for about 40K miles.  I deal with it due to not being OCD and having old, arthritic, carpal tunnel hands. Maybe I'll work on that this winter. 

[Lyle Laun]

John
I too had the same problem with the seat holder on one of my bikes. Did the cable pull work around and finally pulled it all out. As previous post, my seat isn’t latched and doesn’t seem to move around or go anywhere. I've c9me to like this so much I pulled the latch mechanism off my other Valk.

Regards
Lyle

[John Schmidt]

Let's recognize that motorcycle owners have some quirky characteristics, too. My wife puts up with mine.

Agreed, Rita also put up with mine....most of the time. She used to claim that if she stuck a muffler up her butt and made a noise like a motorcycle, she'd get a lot more attention from me. Once in a great while after spending more than a few hours in the shop, she would come out to where I was working and whisper "vroom vroom" in my ear. That told me it was time to quit for the day...often a worthwhile move.  

As for the seat latch, although fairly troublefree I still have a problem with a piece of equiment made up of five parts, of which three are moving parts.