Fighting rust in my S&W 686 Pro

[Savago]

My firearms instructor used to joke that there are 3 main enemies to guns:
a) Lack of instruction: don't know how to properly and safely operate a gun.
b) Rust: decay comes to all things.
c) Ignorance: just talk to a politician...
 

I came recently to face one of the enemies: rust.

After a nice session in the range, I made the mistake of waiting a little over 1 week to clean the guns. Well, it turns out that not all stainless steel is the same grade: while the Ruger Super Redhawk made in the late 90's was fine, the new S&W 686 Pro made in the recent years was covered by rust (tiny red spots in the frame).

I decided to remove the grips and have a look and to my horror, it was actually flaking and had some bad pitting in the handle.

[Savago]

Before visiting the local gunsmith and getting a pro to try to clean the mess, I thought it was worth the shot (pun intended) to try to mitigate the situation by myself.

Some research in the web suggested that Aerokroil could be used to penetrate the rusty spots and break the oxidation free.

I decided to let it soak for a night inside of a ziplock and inspect the following day.

[Savago]

The following day some of the rust was gone in the handle (and most in the frame).

Decided to use a stainless steel wool in the handle and to my surprise the rust spots started to go way.

[Savago]

Final results were alright, way better than how it started:

[Savago]

The removed rust from the back handle left some pitting, the solution was to polish the whole surface (I've used Flitz).

It looks different from the original sand blasted finish, but I kind like the little touch of shiny metal in the handle.
 

[Savago]

Final result: gun cleaned and properly lubed.

There is an intrinsic and atemporal elegance in the shapes of a nice revolver.

[Savago]

What I learned from this experience:
a) stainless steel is 'stain less'.
b) there are different grades of stainless (and my S&W seems to be the most rust prone of all my guns).
c) it seems that older revolvers (80's and 90's) were really better made than recent ones.

I'm a bit disappointed on S&W, since it was my first and being SS I hoped it wouldn't be high maintenance. I was wrong.

It is a bit of shame, since this pistol is a joy to shoot and has the best trigger of all my guns.

I will make sure to always clean it in the same day after a range session. I've also started to use a oiled rag to wipe the exterior of the guns at the end of a session.

[Jess from VA]

I have never seen or heard of rust (on stainless or otherwise) starting that quickly.  I assume it was indoors (not in a mud puddle for a week).

I must ask, do you have corrosive or acidic sweat?  I have seen, once or twice in my life, amazing and quick corrosion on metal things from a couple guys who did.  They were not unsanitary people (just some rare internal chemistry), but the damage it caused to metal things was quite surprising.  If so, you may want to get some tight shooting gloves.  

My old police trade in Remington 870 shotgun, has two very distinct fingerprints in the bluing that could probably be photographed and put through a computer for matches.  I removed the light rusting, but the only way I was going to get those prints off was to polish the bluing (and maybe some metal) off, so I didn't.  

Also, I think I'd wax the butt frame under the grips to help prevent that from happening. (or maybe the whole revolver)

Here is some of the finest wax in existence, used in museum preservation and restoration of all manner of antiquities, but it is also amazing on firearms, leather and all kinds of things.  It seals the metal surface.

https://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-XTL-8004-Wax-Polish-65ml/dp/B003AJWN62

I hope that crud has not migrated into the lockwork under the side plate.  Removing the side plate (and getting it back on) is a very tricky operation and many screw thier revolvers up getting them back on (no hammering allowed).  It can be done at home, but there's no shame in using a gunsmith.  

If you didn't already, I think I would take the grip off again, and flush the works out with that aerosol you used from the hammer downward, with a drip dry.  If the flush shows evidence of internal rust, you have another project to deal with.  All recent Smith revolvers use MIM (metal injection molding) parts in their lockwork (unlike older ones), and I do not know how that stuff reacts with rust/corrosion.

The only other thing that comes to mind is ammunition corrosiveness.  It shouldn't be, but it's worth considering.

Also, if you haven't discovered this yet, The Smith and Wesson Forum has some of the very best knowledge and information that can be found anywhere.  I have never joined to ask questions and discuss, but I have lurked and read there extensively over the years.  If this rust issue is common on new production revolvers, it's certain to have been discussed there.  And remedies.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-revolvers/

[Savago]

@Jess: all good advice, I appreciate it!

I'm using a Carnauba gun wax in the frame (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046E8MOC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and Boe-shield T9 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001447PEK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) in the handle part that is covered by the grip.

I did some research at the time and the consensus was that both newer S&W revolvers (https://www.1911forum.com/threads/rust-on-stainless-s-w-revolvers.414382/) were more prone to rust and specially the S&W 686 Pro model was worst (http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/402171-rust-reoccuring-problem-686s.html) apparently due to its bead blasted finish.

Apparently polished SS guns by S&W are more resilient against rust.

I got the gun second hand and didn't remove the grips before. What draw my attention to the issue was the small red rust dots in the frame.

The revolver was stored in a dry safe after the range session.

I have other stainless steel guns and none of them displayed any kind of rust. Even if a bit neglected (i.e. once I took 4 weeks to clean my Sig Sauer p226 Navy), rust was something I never observed.

Maybe I should start eating less Tabasco and Jalapenos?
 

[Pete]

You have discovered the universal truth "stainless will rust given the right conditions". That is not to say that it will rust like non-stainless. Usually it is minor and seldom and not easily done.

Areas of contact like handle interfaces are the most likely as they do not get the benefit of being wiped or of air circulation to dry.

The comment on checking the internals is very appropriate. Also every revolver I have seen that malfunctioned was caused be internal rust. Usually occurring on revolvers carried in pants where they were exposed to body moisture repeatedly over a long time. A light coating of oil will stop that.

As for removing the side plate, remove the handles and the 3 screws, note where each screw came from and return it to the same place (very important). Then hold the revolver in one hand (side plate up) and tap lightly and repeatedly with a wooden or plastic handle on the and of the handle until the plate rises from the frame. Vibrations not force will loosen the side plate. Never use force or pry on the side place. The top of the side plate is hooked under the top of the frame and comes out last with a downward motion.

When lifting the side place note there is one piece (the hammer block) that is loose and can fall out. Note its position as it must be in that position to reinstall the side plate. All other parts will stay in place unless something else is wrong. Clean and lightly oil what you can. While you can work the action while the side plate is off I would not unless you are familiar with assembly/disassembly. Working the action with the side plate off, puts stress on the pins while they are supported on only 1 side and parts can move out of alignment.

Reassemble, be sure the hammer block aligns with the side plate groove and is on its pin. hook the side place top into the frame and gently press it in place. Reinstall the screw in the correct holes and tighten  to snug. The test the action, noting the action of the hammer block thru the hammer opening. 

Disassembly of the action is not that complicated but it does require some careful cautious work and is aided by 2 special tools. If you decide to proceed get someone with the tools and know how to assist the first time.

[RP#62]

The gap between the grip and the frame allows sweat/humidity to be drawn in and kept against the metal, promoting corrosion.  A good waxing or application of oil or corrosion preventative there should go a long way.  Regarding corrosion and stainless steel - some stainless alloys have to be passivated to retain their corrosion resistance following machining.  We used to have to do it on aircraft  (flap tracks come to mind) following repairs.  It basically involved treating the surface with a mixture of nitric acid and other nasty stuff that dissolved the iron regions/grains within the stainless that were exposed at the surface.

-RP

[h13man]

I have a old model 60 that has been in vehicles for 32 yrs. I just got it out of the car and it has very minute rust pit at the end of the sight ramp/barrel area.  I checked it under the grip's  and it had two small areas of surface rust using Pachmayr rubber grips. This is a polished finish which polishing metal helps prevents corrosion. Thanks to bringing this to my attention as I've been very obviously laxed on maintenance of this particularly fine weapon.

[Savago]

@Pete: I will do some further research and learning before removing the side plate. Thanks for the advice!

@h13man: it seems that these cases of rust inside the handle are more common with *rubber* grips than wood grips. I guess wood may have its advantages aside good looks, after all.

[MarkT]

Good tech info.  Gonna save this thread.  Add a cpl things:  I've found WD40 is a great metal cleaner - applied appropriately removes rust and other contaminants.  By that I mean use 0000 steel wool and get it wet and apply lightly to the rust/contaminant and let it sit a little.  Then wipe lightly.  Cleans chrome, SS, carbon steel, pretty much every metal I've tried.  Don't use it as a lube and don't get it in the mechanism - it dries out and gums up.

I have set up a HF blast cabinet this year.  Found glass media is effective, more so than aluminum oxide.  Removes more stuff like rust and paint faster and leaves a fine-dappled texture if that's what you want.  Walnut shell bits are effective for less surface abrasion, like working on soft metals like brass.  have not tried it on wood or the like to see what it does. I suppose the glass media could restore a textured finish on SS guns that have holster wear or the like but I'm not sure how to test that without actually blasting on a valuable gun.

Also have a high-speed large wheel buffer machine with different grades of polishing compound, which can shine like a mirror, different metals.  Don't mix the compounds on the wheels - usually only run 2 wheels, 2 compounds which work on SS & aluminum.  I buy them in 2# bars, Zephyr brand Primary Cutting Rouge (TR-2 Brown Tripoli Rouge) and Final Finish Show Quality (Max Red Polishing Rouge).  I wouldn't hesitate to use them on my SS guns if I was looking for a high shine. Though one would have to take care - might look bad as likely couldn't get the polisher wheels into some concave areas. Maybe a Dremel could work in there.

I have several S&W SS revolvers.  The J-frames have green laser Crimson Trace rubber grips.  Haven't looked under the grips since installing them.  They are CCW carries, not recent manufacture models 60 & 649 - don't get a lot of cycling at the range or for that matter, cleaning unless they are fired.  Always carried in hybrid IWB holsters, not against skin but agaist leather.  Sounds like I ought to pull the grips and check underneath.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I never had a stainless gun rust before. But, I've only had 2. Every gun I've had that had any rust was near impossible to keep from rusting while out hunting. It always took a rebluing. I don't know what you can do for stainless other than a thorough cleaning each time.

[Savago]

A close-in: before:

[Savago]

And after:

[Savago]

One last detail about the wool: it seems that a regular steel wool can leave some small fragments of regular steel embedded on the surface of the the Stainless steel.

There is some consensus that those fragments will rust and can start a corrosion process on the stainless.

That is why is recommended to use a stainless steel wool while removing rust from a stainless steel gun.

[h13man]

WD 40 is an excellent cleaner for my revolvers after a shoot then a good clean/wipe off and proper gun oiling follows. Caution with plastic grips with long term WD 40 use, it degrade certain plastics if not stripped and cleaned. WD 40 is somewhat a universal oil for penetrating solution if needed when no other superior versions aren't available. It is not a rust inhibitor as many are led to believe. I found out the hard way on my lathe ways. LPS 2 is what use for longer term protection.

[MarkT]

Savago, not getting the brass color in the before pic.  Maybe stain from old oil? 

Also notice slight damage to a screw.  Do you have proper gunsmith screwdrivers?  I have a nice set from Grace USA.  Fit the screws really well.  I'm guessing somebody else ham-fisted your screw; no doubt you don't abuse your guns.  Given your knowledge shown on the board.  But these are quality screwdrivers for others who might be new to gun care.

[MAD6Gun]

Savago, not getting the brass color in the before pic.  Maybe stain from old oil? 

Also notice slight damage to a screw.  Do you have proper gunsmith screwdrivers?  I have a nice set from Grace USA.  Fit the screws really well.  I'm guessing somebody else ham-fisted your screw; no doubt you don't abuse your guns.  Given your knowledge shown on the board.  But these are quality screwdrivers for others who might be new to gun care.

 What Mark said. A good hollow ground screw driver set is a must when working on guns. Screws can be damaged when using other screwdrivers....

[Savago]

Savago, not getting the brass color in the before pic.  Maybe stain from old oil? 

Also notice slight damage to a screw.  Do you have proper gunsmith screwdrivers?  I have a nice set from Grace USA.  Fit the screws really well.  I'm guessing somebody else ham-fisted your screw; no doubt you don't abuse your guns.  Given your knowledge shown on the board.  But these are quality screwdrivers for others who might be new to gun care.

@Mark: thanks for the suggestion!

I was looking for a good gunsmith screwdriver set and I think I'm gonna order this set: https://www.amazon.com/Grace-USA-Gunsmith-Screwdriver-Screwdrivers/dp/B01IOL5QPA/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1LSI6JA90GP8W&dchild=1&keywords=grace+usa+gunsmithing+tools&qid=1608061480&sprefix=grace+usa+gun%2Caps%2C243&sr=8-11

Is the price alright (got free shipping thanks to Amazon Prime)? 66 bucks?

I will remove the Hogue grip to inspect the screw you noticed may be damaged (I must confess I didn't pay much attention to it, since my focus was all about the rust).

The photo may not show it well, but some of the flakes that got loose accumulated at the bottom of the zip lock. I tested it with a magnet and they seemed to be attracted to it, which leads me to believe it wasn't just old stained oil.

After being removed, there was some pitting in the handle that the photos don't show (mostly because the gun was covered by oil when I was working on it).

I'm just a beginner on firearms (got started a little over 1 year ago) and I really appreciate input from you guys!
 

[Jess from VA]

If buying some gunsmith tools, don't forget some pin punches (for the autos and rifles). https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019308911?pid=462900

You don't need that many, just a few small ones.  And a small brass or plastic tap hammer.  And bulk cleaning patches in correct caliber sizes.  

And a nice stainless (one piece) cleaning rod for those rifles (those cheapo screw together aluminum cleaning rods are crap).  Get one (only) a couple inches longer than your barrels.  Since I had a bunch of old WWI (long bbl) Mausers, I ordered one long fishing pole for my first, and working with it in 16 and 18" bbls was a PITA.  I like micro polished stainless Pro Shot rods.

And get some brass Jag Tips for cleaning your barrels.  These caliber specific tips do a much better job of cleaning than the needle eyelet patch holders.  With a proper sized patch over one, they push the crud right out of the rifling.


And caliber specific stainless tornado brushes are better than traditional brass bore brushes (though I have both).


Throw any plastic cleaning tips you have away, they will break off in your cleaning rods sooner or later. And you will screw up your rod threads digging one out.

Amazon is fine for best prices, but I would shop looking at Midway and Brownells for best information, and calling and talking to their tech guys is worth your time.  In addition, getting them to send you any master catalogs they may have (and on their mailing list) is also a good idea.  You may be able to order them on their websites.  These catalogs then become part of your firearms library and resource center (and great bathroom perusing material).

And here is a nice bargain price gun vice for long gun work.  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101491760

If you already have a good work table OK.  But if you don't, some of these portable (foldable), worktables are lightweight but plenty sturdy, and easy adjustable height so you can work sitting or standing.  I got one at Costco.   https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-80160-Commercial-Adjustable-Folding/dp/B003DYZQKY

https://www.midwayusa.com/gunsmithing-supplies/c?cid=649

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/index.htm

The small chunks of metal off the grip frame are unfortunate, but so long as you stop any further progress you should be OK.  Where you don't want damage is at screw and pin punch attachment sites.

[Savago]

@Mark: just ordered the Grace USA gunsmith screwdrivers.

@Jess: just ordered this jag tip set:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y6BTV6T/?coliid=IKWEIL22LDL3C&colid=PG06LGULZZOX&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it