I did some research and found out why my Harley handles so badly

[Alien]

Mine is a Dyna and this is a Dyna specific design flaw.  Basically, the swingarm is mounted to the transmission which, along with the engine, is rubber mounted to the frame.  Yep, the swingarm has no solid connection to the frame, so it is free to not only move up and down in it's normal arc, but also side to side as well as in and out at the top.  Try to accelerate out of a curve and it gets even worse.

 WTF?  

They do make stronger motor mounts alonmg with aftermarket bolt on braces that tie everything together properly but still, how could HD have allowed such a terrible design to leave R&D? From what I've read, this is only an issue with the Dyna models and doesn't affect the touring bikes, which have a frame mounted swingarm like our Valks.  Also the softtail models are unaffected.

I don't mind working on or modifying my bikes, but I hate that I have to correct a dangerous design flaw.  It's just stupid.  Apparently there is a whole aftermarket industry devoted to correcting this nonsense.

UGH.

Ride Safe,

Alien

[Rams]

All I can say is researching the product prior to pulling the trigger would seem like a good idea.
Do the mods and enjoy the ride.  Or, pawn it off for a more proven product.

Rams

[..]

I don't know which models but friends rented Harleys years ago to explore the NW. They normally rented Wings but there were no other options available.

Each of them was a Valkyrie owner.

Each of them disliked the bikes because of the lack of "real" connection in the middle of the bike. That plus the lack of power made for a miserable 2 weeks.

[Alien]

All I can say is researching the product prior to pulling the trigger would seem like a good idea.
Do the mods and enjoy the ride.  Or, pawn it off for a more proven product.

Rams

You're right.  This is on me.  I saw shock and a swingarm,  honestly, it never occurred to me to delve into how they were connected to the frame. I had intended to buy a different bike that day and that's the one I researched.  I ended up hating the riding position and really liked the looks and comfort of the Dyna.  I'll fix it.  Knowing how dangerous this design is, I wouldn't feel right passing it on to someone else until it's safe.

[Alien]

I don't know which models but friends rented Harleys years ago to explore the NW. They normally rented Wings but there were no other options available.

Each of them was a Valkyrie owner.

Each of them disliked the bikes because of the lack of "real" connection in the middle of the bike. That plus the lack of power made for a miserable 2 weeks.

I agree about the lack of connection.  The power isn't bad.  It's not on par with the Valk but it's very torquey down low and I have no complaints. 

[da prez]

  Going by memory (??) when I worked on HD's , there was an aftermarket conversation kit with a mono-shock.  Pretty pricey if I remember. I do not remember the before and after ride.
  Try going on the HD board and find someone that has converted a bike and ask questions.

                                        da prez

[Jess from VA]

I rode the Dyna precursor FXR for 18 years.  Dual shock, and maybe they had the same design as Dynas (dunno), but I never felt like it was unsafe or unstable.  The FXR (in my day) was always touted as the best handling bike they made (vs softtails, dressers and sporties).

I always thought the dual shock was a better bike (handling wise) than any of their SoftTail mono-shocks.

[..]

https://itstillruns.com/harley-davidson-rubber-vs-rigid-mount-12182863.html

"The primary reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations felt by the rider."

[Skinhead]

Are those the model prone to the death wobble?

[MarkT]

Why did they sell such a bad design?  Because it's Harley and they don't have to fix stuff - their loyal flock will pay excess money for them warts, incompetence, malfeasance and all.

Dump it before the cam chain adjuster fails - or a bunch of other known issues.

[..]

Are those the model prone to the death wobble?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=HARLEY+DEATH+WOBBLE+MODELS&ia=web

https://harleyliberty.com/2020/04/04/a-motorcyclist-who-blames-harley-davidson-wobble-for-a-crash-that-left-him-severely-injured-has-filed-a-federal-lawsuit-against-the-iconic-cycle-maker-over-the-wreck/

[old2soon]

     inherent design flaws from the factory? Who'd a thunk it? don't Know the xyz designation but a friend has a 1200 soft tail that ate All the cam bearings. He found out later this-cam bearing digestion-was normal.  RIDE SAFE.

[Mikerthebiker]

The only two Harleys ever made that handle properly are the FXR and the XR1200(x). The rest have sub-standard, flexible frames designed for parades, not twisties.

[Jess from VA]

https://itstillruns.com/harley-davidson-rubber-vs-rigid-mount-12182863.html

"The primary reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations felt by the rider."

(Not from the article.)

However the next most important reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations that made all kinds of parts fall off the motorcycle, usually while being operated.  

I have personal experience on this issue.  I had a rubber mount (FXR), and while the rubber mounts helped, they were not wholly successful in preventing parts from falling off.  The only way to avoid this problem was to go around actually checking bolts from time to time.

[fudgie]

Is that why they are called a Wide Glide? 

[Patrick]

My cousin has a 2013 and I'm wondering if its one with that issue.

[old2soon]

https://itstillruns.com/harley-davidson-rubber-vs-rigid-mount-12182863.html

"The primary reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations felt by the rider."

(Not from the article.)

However the next most important reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations that made all kinds of parts fall off the motorcycle, usually while being operated.  

I have personal experience on this issue.  I had a rubber mount (FXR), and while the rubber mounts helped, they were not wholly successful in preventing parts from falling off.  The only way to avoid this problem was to go around actually checking bolts from time to time.

 
            On the Grumman S 2 D & E I worked on in The Navy lotsa nuts and bolts were safety wired with stainless steel wire. Parts start comin off an air vehicle while flying it WILL git interesting.  9 cylinder radial engines Are prone to vibration on a par with h/d. And on a long hop if the engines aren't synced it IS a bummer of a ride. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

9 cylinder radial engines are prone to vibration on a par with h/d

Probably almost as noisy too.   

[Robert]

Thanks for posting this, it kind of answers a question.

 My sons both had or have Harleys. My one sons bike scared the hell out of me when he rode it, it would wobble on the highway. I took a fast look at the bike to see what was the problem and didnt really see anything and I even talked to him about it. He said the ride was good so I kind of kept my mouth shut. But when he would ride that bike I would not ride behind him on the highway since it was to nerve racking.

He did not have the bike very long and I was so happy he got rid of it.

[Patrick]

https://itstillruns.com/harley-davidson-rubber-vs-rigid-mount-12182863.html

"The primary reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations felt by the rider."

(Not from the article.)

However the next most important reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations that made all kinds of parts fall off the motorcycle, usually while being operated.  

I have personal experience on this issue.  I had a rubber mount (FXR), and while the rubber mounts helped, they were not wholly successful in preventing parts from falling off.  The only way to avoid this problem was to go around actually checking bolts from time to time.

 
            On the Grumman S 2 D & E I worked on in The Navy lotsa nuts and bolts were safety wired with stainless steel wire. Parts start comin off an air vehicle while flying it WILL git interesting.  9 cylinder radial engines Are prone to vibration on a par with h/d. And on a long hop if the engines aren't synced it IS a bummer of a ride. RIDE SAFE.

Some folks never seem to acquire the nack for getting the props synced.

[Alien]

https://itstillruns.com/harley-davidson-rubber-vs-rigid-mount-12182863.html

"The primary reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations felt by the rider."

(Not from the article.)

However the next most important reason that rubber mounts were introduced was to help reduce the amount of vibrations that made all kinds of parts fall off the motorcycle, usually while being operated.  

I have personal experience on this issue.  I had a rubber mount (FXR), and while the rubber mounts helped, they were not wholly successful in preventing parts from falling off.  The only way to avoid this problem was to go around actually checking bolts from time to time.

Yep, I've been putting it on the lift every week or so and checking bolts.  Locktite has helped a lot.  At least it's never the same bolt twice. 

[Jess from VA]

Actually it was often the same parts that wanted to fall off, I think because they were subject to the most vibration, or the thread bosses were more shallow (with no nuts on the backside).

IE the one bolt air cleaner cover (was number one), foot pegs, hwy pegs, license plate frames, mirrors (didn't fall off, just flopped around), exhaust mounts, trunk/bag/fairing mounts, spokes (if you were dumb enough to have them).  Some things never got loose (big frame bolts).  

The other chronic was primary (engine) cover bolts.  And I got into trouble with those.  After tightening them down multiple times, I cranked too hard on them.  Steel bolts into aluminum parts strip the threads right out of aluminum parts.  (even true for Valks)

I only stripped one, but learned my lesson.  And really this is the major takeaway on routine checking of bolts on the bike.  You cannot get angry with them (even if you are).  And I never owned a torque wrench back then (and am not too good with the fancy one I have now).  And Loctite is your friend (but not the red stuff, it's not your friend at all, unless you will never get in there again).  

Then there was the rear cylinder (hottest) base gasket leak.  Actually, more a seep.  Oil never hit the ground.  I could go a week of riding, and only need to do a single wipe to clean it up.  Multiple dealerships wanted to do a complete rebuild to fix that gasket.... it will fail terribly one day and all your oil will leak down, and you will blow the engine, and wipe out with oil on the rear tire.  BS, I rode with that seep for 10 years, and never really could find much loss on the dipstick, though a shot glass or two of oil did have to go in once in a while.

When I moved up (and grew up) to Valks from my (18yr) Hog, I was always checking my Valk dip sticks (habit).  After a couple years, I quit that foolishness.  

My other peeve was the drive belts.  It was a pretty big PITA to change them, and one time, 2 days after getting a new belt, I went out to find a small stone completely through the new belt (and it did not want to come out).  Can't I just leave it in there?  Well probably, but then you are certain to need both new sprockets later.  

[Avanti]

I have helped several riders with broken belts due to picking up a stone. Not a roadside fix.

[..]

I forgot to mention they learnt to plan an overtake. They learnt to hang way bac. k and gather speed to overtake.