Drive flange bolt(s)- Torque?

[FLAVALK]

I was checking the drive flange and found a bolt that was a little loose while the others were tight. Does anyone know what the torque should be on these five bolts?  The manual just says “Don’t attempt to disassemble”. OK, I didn’t, but what is the torque requirement?

[Avanti]

Well in this case I would probably take my torque wrench and find the average torque of the other studs and use that on the loose one. You can also look up torque specs on different size bolts but I believe I would use the first method.

[FLAVALK]

Well in this case I would probably take my torque wrench and find the average torque of the other studs and use that on the loose one. You can also look up torque specs on different size bolts but I believe I would use the first method.

Yep, I considered that, but if one is loose, are the others torqued properly? I will do as you suggest and check torque specs on different bolts. Thanks.

[Avanti]

Maybe someone has a drive flange available to check the torque on and post that information.

[Mooskee]

If you are referring to the Final Driven Flange Pin Bolt, Page 14-1 of the manual says 14 ft lbs. Weird because later in the section it says do not attempt to disassemble the flange. 

[Chrisj CMA]

I wouldn’t worry about the actual torque. Use red loctite and crank them as tight as you can. You’re not going to break anything unless thats your intent and you try real hard.

[FLAVALK]

If you are referring to the Final Driven Flange Pin Bolt, Page 14-1 of the manual says 14 ft lbs. Weird because later in the section it says do not attempt to disassemble the flange.  

Wow! That’s about half the torque the chart on Bolt Depot recommends....assuming these are high strength bolts.

[indybobm]

If you are referring to the Final Driven Flange Pin Bolt, Page 14-1 of the manual says 14 ft lbs. Weird because later in the section it says do not attempt to disassemble the flange.  

I believe that the manual is not correct. The pin bolt and the entry above it, damper plate holder bolt, are both listed as 14ftlbs. If you check the metric torque value it is 3 times tighter than the holder bolt.
Torque would be 42ftlbs.

[FLAVALK]

If you are referring to the Final Driven Flange Pin Bolt, Page 14-1 of the manual says 14 ft lbs. Weird because later in the section it says do not attempt to disassemble the flange.  

I believe that the manual is not correct. The pin bolt and the entry above it, damper plate holder bolt, are both listed as 14ftlbs. If you check the metric torque value it is 3 times tighter than the holder bolt.
Torque would be 42ftlbs.

Agree.

[Mooskee]

Quote from: Mooskee on Yesterday at 02:53:57 PM
If you are referring to the Final Driven Flange Pin Bolt, Page 14-1 of the manual says 14 ft lbs. Weird because later in the section it says do not attempt to disassemble the flange.  uglystupid2
I believe that the manual is not correct. The pin bolt and the entry above it, damper plate holder bolt, are both listed as 14ftlbs. If you check the metric torque value it is 3 times tighter than the holder bolt.
Torque would be 42ftlbs.

That's a good catch INDYBOBM. I just looked up the value, I didn't notice the difference in the metric values. 14 ft lbs is probably a bit wimpy for such a component.

[Ricky-D]

I have to disagree with the consensus here.

Chris is correct in his way of looking at it.

I mean... What does those bolt do ???

They hold nothing together. They are simply pins.

Tighten a loose one best you can with red loktite.

I think Honda is correct with the torque spec. and all the forum "ayes" are failing to use their noggin.

[indybobm]

Ricky, I think that you missed the point that I was making. The Service Manual is incorrect on the torque value for the Drive Flange Nuts. This was an obvious cut and paste error by the writers of the manual.

[Ricky-D]

Ricky, I think that you missed the point that I was making. The Service Manual is incorrect on the torque value for the Drive Flange Nuts. This was an obvious cut and paste error by the writers of the manual.

I don't know how you can say "obvious", obvious to who ???
You are assuming because Honda did not follow industry standards that they made a mistake in assigning torque values.

You are calling a "pin" a bolt and then automatically want to torque this pin to industry standards developed according to the physical characteristics of a bolt because the sizes are consistent.

Failing to recognize that it is merely a "pin" with threads to hold it in place is what's going on here.

Honda didn't have any trouble recognizing this fact and they so made a determination as expressed by their publication of the torque value of that item.

[Chrisj CMA]

I’ve been saying this for years. Not every fastener on The Valkyrie needs to be tightened with a torque wrench. The fact that a torque value may be given for a certain bolt means very different things based on the function of that fastener. Being able to determine a fasteners function and the importance of an accurate torque or not is a valuable skill. Also knowing what 10lbs of torque feels like verses 20 or 30 is a valuable skill as well. If you have none of these skills you are apt to break fasteners even with the use of a torque wrench. Don’t ask me how I know.

My point is. We are not working on jet aircraft it’s a motorcycle. Less scientific thinking and more practical thinking will serve you much better. Learn the WHY not merely the WHAT. Once you understand why something needs to be done you will make better decisions when problem solving.

As always good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

[Mooskee]

Some of these replies are exactly why I don't let other people work on my bikes.

[indybobm]

Well, this has taken a life of its own. I just stated that the manual was wrong and tried to help. Go figure. i stated what I thought the torque value would be.

[FLAVALK]

Well, this has taken a life of its own. I just stated that the manual was wrong and tried to help. Go figure. i stated what I thought the torque value would be.

No good deed goes unpunished. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Well, this has taken a life of its own. I just stated that the manual was wrong and tried to help. Go figure. i stated what I thought the torque value would be.

No good deed goes unpunished.  

Punishment huh?  Let me tell you a little story.

A couple three years ago I was on a road trip and detected a bad rear wheel bearing. As I was 400 miles from home I decided I needed to address this immediately. I put a plea for help here on the Board and within ten minutes I had two offers. I went with the first one. They helped me get to car parts places to get parts and a bike shop to get help. Back at their garage we got it all back together. However, he did not have a torque wrench. I just winged it by feel. Neither of us had any grease either so I decided to just button it up knowing I would take it back apart at home and get it done right.

Once back at home, I was careful to try to assess how close I guessed the torque settings. They were so spot on if we had had some grease it would have been a textbook job.

All I am saying is pay attention. Understand why you are doing what you are doing. Learn some basic rules so you can be more reasonable when you need to break said rules or improvise.  

Things are a little less critical than some may think.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Less scientific thinking and more practical thinking will serve you much better. Learn the WHY not merely the WHAT. Once you understand why something needs to be done you will make better decisions when problem solving.

As always good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

says the guy who nearly ripped his arm off with a cement mixer. And then shot himself with a .357.

[Chrisj CMA]

Less scientific thinking and more practical thinking will serve you much better. Learn the WHY not merely the WHAT. Once you understand why something needs to be done you will make better decisions when problem solving.

As always good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

says the guy who nearly ripped his arm off with a cement mixer. And then shot himself with a .357.

It was a .25  like I said experience comes from poor judgment. Are you always so nasty?  Maybe retirement isn't setting as well with you as you let on.

[Savage]

Aside from being know-it-alls, it’s a good thing some of you guys are friends.
Would be a bitter shame to see what would go down if you were enemies.

[h13man]

I’ve been saying this for years. Not every fastener on The Valkyrie needs to be tightened with a torque wrench. The fact that a torque value may be given for a certain bolt means very different things based on the function of that fastener. Being able to determine a fasteners function and the importance of an accurate torque or not is a valuable skill. Also knowing what 10lbs of torque feels like verses 20 or 30 is a valuable skill as well. If you have none of these skills you are apt to break fasteners even with the use of a torque wrench. Don’t ask me how I know.

My point is. We are not working on jet aircraft it’s a motorcycle. Less scientific thinking and more practical thinking will serve you much better. Learn the WHY not merely the WHAT. Once you understand why something needs to be done you will make better decisions when problem solving.

As always good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

You're spot on. From experience judging by the thickness between the "pin threaded hole" and outer detail of the flange is the weak point by design thus over torquing would not be a good choice IMO. 14 ft. lbs. with red or green Loctite would be my choice as per Honda OEM.

[Chrisj CMA]

I’ve been saying this for years. Not every fastener on The Valkyrie needs to be tightened with a torque wrench. The fact that a torque value may be given for a certain bolt means very different things based on the function of that fastener. Being able to determine a fasteners function and the importance of an accurate torque or not is a valuable skill. Also knowing what 10lbs of torque feels like verses 20 or 30 is a valuable skill as well. If you have none of these skills you are apt to break fasteners even with the use of a torque wrench. Don’t ask me how I know.

My point is. We are not working on jet aircraft it’s a motorcycle. Less scientific thinking and more practical thinking will serve you much better. Learn the WHY not merely the WHAT. Once you understand why something needs to be done you will make better decisions when problem solving.

As always good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

You're spot on. From experience judging by the thickness between the "pin threaded hole" and outer detail of the flange is the weak point by design thus over torquing would not be a good choice IMO. 14 ft. lbs. with red or green Loctite would be my choice as per Honda OEM.

Yep. And because of the awkward shape/design of the flange itself. I would imagine the tightest one would get that bolt without making a special jig is around 20 ft lbs which would be perfectly adequate

[indybobm]

Ok, let me own up to something here.
I stated early that I thought the torque value would be 42 ftlbs. 
In the service manual on page 14-1, the metric torque value of 59 N-m (6.0 kgf*m. 14 Ibf*ft) does not compute to the 14 Ib*ft.
It is obvious, in my estimation, that one of the torque values is wrong.
So the torque value appears to be either 14 ftlbs or 42 ftlbs depending on which one in the service manual is wrong.
I thought that because of the acceleration and deceleration of the bike there would be a wobble factor applied to the drive pin so I went with the higher torque value.
Maybe I was wrong.
I do know that I am getting tired of the cold weather and am spending too much time at the keyboard.

[Chrisj CMA]

Ok, let me own up to something here.
I stated early that I thought the torque value would be 42 ftlbs. 
In the service manual on page 14-1, the metric torque value of 59 N-m (6.0 kgf*m. 14 Ibf*ft) does not compute to the 14 Ib*ft.
It is obvious, in my estimation, that one of the torque values is wrong.
So the torque value appears to be either 14 ftlbs or 42 ftlbs depending on which one in the service manual is wrong.
I thought that because of the acceleration and deceleration of the bike there would be a wobble factor applied to the drive pin so I went with the higher torque value.
Maybe I was wrong.
I do know that I am getting tired of the cold weather and am spending too much time at the keyboard.

Well. If you didn’t break it or strip it you did no harm. You should never have to mess with it again. You used common sense so if it worked it worked. The majority of us will never have to deal with it because those nuts are permanently tight and we don’t mess with them.