DDT (12)
Member
Posts: 4112
Sometimes ya just gotta go...
Winter Springs, FL - Occasionally...
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« on: January 22, 2021, 10:08:02 AM » |
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Should gambling be ‘legalized’? Moot point, actually, because it is in fact practiced in some form every single day by every living creature. Each time a squirrel ventures forth from its nest, it is gambling that it will find life-sustaining sustenance while not becoming food for some predator also seeking the same. Every time we visit a doctor we’re gambling that we will either receive a clean bill of health, or that our healthcare provider will have the skill and wherewithal to remedy whatever might be ailing us. Anytime we push the side-stands of our dearly beloved with our left heel to its preferred position, we… you know…
Life itself is a series of gambles, guesses, and consequences. We all in time experience plenty of the good stuff right along with some varying amount of the not-so-good. As real as it is unavoidable, as that’s simply part of the nature of living… We all try to learn to anticipate, foresee, minimize adverse outcomes, to know what’s best to do, in order to improve or mitigate the realities of our daily gambles, and some of us learn to perform those guesstimates better than others.
Another obvious aspect is the reaction of each of us to those outcomes… Nothing new here… For my money, politics is also involved somewhere that swirling caldron of speculation… Emotions and conclusions generally are logical outcomes produced by life’s experiences, observations, and interpretations… and to learned reactions/responses over time.
We all want to ‘win’. We need to feel like we’re on the right track, that we’re wise and thoughtful about important matters, and that we’re thinking and acting responsibly. Likewise, we all want to avoid being viewed as flawed, unintelligent, mean or hurtful, and/or downright wrong! These natural attributes are drivers for most of us, but they can also be the very things that sometimes lead us astray… Yes, the ‘law of unintended consequences’ applies here, too!
When counter arguments or opposite views are thrown back at us, our natural inclination is to defend our own point of view! After all, “I feel the way I do because my own fair-minded opinions have been formed with the best of intentions and clear evidence in plain view.” However, none of us have all the information or details, nor are any of us aware at all of many of the short-term and long-term implications of any choice available to us…
Too many times our opinion is based solely upon whatever sounds like a good idea to us or those we trust at the time. All of our opinions are typically heavily influenced, even controlled, by the way we see our own best interests are directly, indirectly, or not at all impacted. Truly, we believe we can clearly ‘see’ things as they ‘really are’, yet we can still be essentially wrong in the broader scheme of things. A little story to illustrate…
Once upon a time, three ‘average guys’ who’d never before seen or heard of elephants were each asked to describe one of those creatures… However, each was first blindfolded before being introduced to the subject, then each was allowed to only touch and feel one but for each a different anatomical feature. One felt the leg, one the tail, and one the belly. They each were certain of their conclusion and steadfast in their own belief in the appearance of elephants based upon real, irrefutable, 'clear' evidence… So, a vigorous defense of each view was made during discussion following the exercise.
Should each be willing to ‘fight’ to 'prove' their correctness… to defend their righteous belief and to expose the 'wrongness' of any rube sporting tin-foil lined headgear who dared to hold a different opinion? Would personal insults be acceptable or appropriate in order to prevail? Would it even be best for one view to prevail and then be forced upon the two less skillful/persuasive debaters who are completely convinced otherwise?
Would it be better instead for each to listen to the others, realize none of them have all the information or a complete perspective, but that together they might find a more accurate description…? In most things that latter course of action might be a wise and worthwhile pursuit, but when it comes to politics, apparently, ‘trial by combat’ – physical or verbal – is clearly the preferred 'solution'…
We want to find simple solutions for complex issues, because ‘right’ answers are extremely hard to find and define, such elusive yet constantly moving targets, ever changing as times and circumstances are at all times fluid, plus they’re nearly impossible to sell to members of the masses when each have their own 'clear' beliefs.
Clever politicians know all of this, so they first seek to divide us into polarized camps either pro or con, left or right, up or down in order to distract and divert us away from productive dialog and to focus instead upon thoughts of 'wedge issues' and 'winning' arguments rather than actually seeking to find real solutions, then they gin-up enthusiasm and motivation to act in certain ways… "Absolutely necessary to vote and/or protest our way," we're told, "because the fate of our democracy hangs in the balance!"
All with an eye towards the manipulation of us into furthering their own aims for gaining/maintaining power and wealth… for the real aim of all politicos… personal, party, and/or ideological ‘success’ (in that order)… and, naturally, all for the greater good, of course (sarcasm font desperately needed here)… Divide and conquer is not a good long-term-solution strategy for 'the greater good', I don’t believe, but it is, clearly, a superb tool for manipulation and conquest.
I am unwilling to concede or acquiesce to the manipulation attempts continually confronting me, nor am I willing to give-in to my own tendencies to knee-jerk vehemently defend my own point of view. I am instead hopeful and waiting patiently for a time when civil discourse will replace vitriol and verbal attack. When we’re reasoning with reasonable peers seeking answers we can all live with instead of fending off assaults and defeating mortal adversaries and their nonsensical ideas.
A pipe dream, perhaps, when the sincere views of anyone are heard with respect and genuine interest in understanding the thinking behind such a perspective… A time when notes are compared and carefully considered and not merely scrutinized for any opportunity to impeach the ‘evil’ holder of such an opinion.
I’m convinced none of us as individuals nor any of our institutions have the answers… That perhaps we together, though, with open minds and a willingness to adjust our own views, might find some consensus solutions to urgent needs and thereby improve the lot of humanity… Perhaps I’m aiming too high, but that hope is borne of a conviction that nobody truly wins until we all do…
Of course, there will always be some who delight in controversy, and who relish any opportunity to stir the pot or poke a thumb in somebody's eye. Narcissists, too, will always be among us looking for personal gratification and benefit while not considering or even caring about the bigger picture or larger implications. These plus a thousand other human characteristic variables will impede efforts, but... Most folks, I think, could be brought to the table, and just maybe...
Genuine progress also would inescapably require genuine leadership to bring folks together... Unfortunately, any system of governance or power-source-leverage mechanism so far conjured-up by mankind has always included the coincidental companion drawback of rewarding the more dedicated, energetic, resourceful, 'morally flexible' narcissists along with the most greedy and self-centered egotists from the ranks of the most able among us to the positions of leadership... a fatal dagger in the heart of any realistic prospect, I'm afraid... But still I am hopeful... Could the 'Tower of Babble' actually be completed...? Human nature being what it is, I’m sad to say, likely means any such noble attempt would at best truly be a long-shot gamble!
DDT
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Don't just dream it... LIVE IT!
See ya down the road...
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2021, 10:34:58 AM » |
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Should gambling be ‘legalized’? Moot point, actually, because it is in fact practiced in some form every single day by every living creature. Each time a squirrel ventures forth from its nest, it is gambling that it will find life-sustaining sustenance while not becoming food for some predator also seeking the same. Every time we visit a doctor we’re gambling that we will either receive a clean bill of health, or that our healthcare provider will have the skill and wherewithal to remedy whatever might be ailing us. Anytime we push the side-stands of our dearly beloved with our left heel to its preferred position, we… you know…
Life itself is a series of gambles, guesses, and consequences. We all in time experience plenty of the good stuff right along with some varying amount of the not-so-good. As real as it is unavoidable, as that’s simply part of the nature of living… We all try to learn to anticipate, foresee, minimize adverse outcomes, to know what’s best to do, in order to improve or mitigate the realities of our daily gambles, and some of us learn to perform those guesstimates better than others.
Another obvious aspect is the reaction of each of us to those outcomes… Nothing new here… For my money, politics is also involved somewhere that swirling caldron of speculation… Emotions and conclusions generally are logical outcomes produced by life’s experiences, observations, and interpretations… and to learned reactions/responses over time.
We all want to ‘win’. We need to feel like we’re on the right track, that we’re wise and thoughtful about important matters, and that we’re thinking and acting responsibly. Likewise, we all want to avoid being viewed as flawed, unintelligent, mean or hurtful, and/or downright wrong! These natural attributes are drivers for most of us, but they can also be the very things that sometimes lead us astray… Yes, the ‘law of unintended consequences’ applies here, too!
When counter arguments or opposite views are thrown back at us, our natural inclination is to defend our own point of view! After all, “I feel the way I do because my own fair-minded opinions have been formed with the best of intentions and clear evidence in plain view.” However, none of us have all the information or details, nor are any of us aware at all of many of the short-term and long-term implications of any choice available to us…
Too many times our opinion is based solely upon whatever sounds like a good idea to us or those we trust at the time. All of our opinions are typically heavily influenced, even controlled, by the way we see our own best interests are directly, indirectly, or not at all impacted. Truly, we believe we can clearly ‘see’ things as they ‘really are’, yet we can still be essentially wrong in the broader scheme of things. A little story to illustrate…
Once upon a time, three ‘average guys’ who’d never before seen or heard of elephants were each asked to describe one of those creatures… However, each was first blindfolded before being introduced to the subject, then each was allowed to only touch and feel one but for each a different anatomical feature. One felt the leg, one the tail, and one the belly. They each were certain of their conclusion and steadfast in their own belief in the appearance of elephants based upon real, irrefutable, 'clear' evidence… So, a vigorous defense of each view was made during discussion following the exercise.
Should each be willing to ‘fight’ to 'prove' their correctness… to defend their righteous belief and to expose the 'wrongness' of any rube sporting tin-foil lined headgear who dared to hold a different opinion? Would personal insults be acceptable or appropriate in order to prevail? Would it even be best for one view to prevail and then be forced upon the two less skillful/persuasive debaters who are completely convinced otherwise?
Would it be better instead for each to listen to the others, realize none of them have all the information or a complete perspective, but that together they might find a more accurate description…? In most things that latter course of action might be a wise and worthwhile pursuit, but when it comes to politics, apparently, ‘trial by combat’ – physical or verbal – is clearly the preferred 'solution'…
We want to find simple solutions for complex issues, because ‘right’ answers are extremely hard to find and define, such elusive yet constantly moving targets, ever changing as times and circumstances are at all times fluid, plus they’re nearly impossible to sell to members of the masses when each have their own 'clear' beliefs.
Clever politicians know all of this, so they first seek to divide us into polarized camps either pro or con, left or right, up or down in order to distract and divert us away from productive dialog and to focus instead upon thoughts of 'wedge issues' and 'winning' arguments rather than actually seeking to find real solutions, then they gin-up enthusiasm and motivation to act in certain ways… "Absolutely necessary to vote and/or protest our way," we're told, "because the fate of our democracy hangs in the balance!"
All with an eye towards the manipulation of us into furthering their own aims for gaining/maintaining power and wealth… for the real aim of all politicos… personal, party, and/or ideological ‘success’ (in that order)… and, naturally, all for the greater good, of course (sarcasm font desperately needed here)… Divide and conquer is not a good long-term-solution strategy for 'the greater good', I don’t believe, but it is, clearly, a superb tool for manipulation and conquest.
I am unwilling to concede or acquiesce to the manipulation attempts continually confronting me, nor am I willing to give-in to my own tendencies to knee-jerk vehemently defend my own point of view. I am instead hopeful and waiting patiently for a time when civil discourse will replace vitriol and verbal attack. When we’re reasoning with reasonable peers seeking answers we can all live with instead of fending off assaults and defeating mortal adversaries and their nonsensical ideas.
A pipe dream, perhaps, when the sincere views of anyone are heard with respect and genuine interest in understanding the thinking behind such a perspective… A time when notes are compared and carefully considered and not merely scrutinized for any opportunity to impeach the ‘evil’ holder of such an opinion.
I’m convinced none of us as individuals nor any of our institutions have the answers… That perhaps we together, though, with open minds and a willingness to adjust our own views, might find some consensus solutions to urgent needs and thereby improve the lot of humanity… Perhaps I’m aiming too high, but that hope is borne of a conviction that nobody truly wins until we all do…
Of course, there will always be some who delight in controversy, and who relish any opportunity to stir the pot or poke a thumb in somebody's eye. Narcissists, too, will always be among us looking for personal gratification and benefit while not considering or even caring about the bigger picture or larger implications. These plus a thousand other human characteristic variables will impede efforts, but... Most folks, I think, could be brought to the table, and just maybe...
Genuine progress also would inescapably require genuine leadership to bring folks together... Unfortunately, any system of governance or power-source-leverage mechanism so far conjured-up by mankind has always included the coincidental companion drawback of rewarding the more dedicated, energetic, resourceful, 'morally flexible' narcissists along with the most greedy and self-centered egotists from the ranks of the most able among us to the positions of leadership... a fatal dagger in the heart of any realistic prospect, I'm afraid... But still I am hopeful... Could the 'Tower of Babble' actually be completed...? Human nature being what it is, I’m sad to say, likely means any such noble attempt would at best truly be a long-shot gamble!
DDT
I'm still hopeful also  (you may be one of the most thoughtful, gracious, honest people I know)  |
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2021, 11:02:28 AM » |
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I hold out hope that things will change. I have faith in whatever changes come that I will be given the grace to handle it.
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Beardo
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2021, 01:10:44 PM » |
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Thanks for taking the time to write that fantastic post.
The current division and animosity is being revelled in by your/our competition around the globe. I appreciate that it’s hard to be united with people who seem to have an end goal that is so far from what you think is right...we have the same thing going on here. After the last 5 years of our current administration, our anthem and our flag don’t stir the same feelings of pride, and I’m extremely disappointed in this loss of love of my country. I will forever love the land, where we live, but I’m getting close to the same view as Serk, where I think we may be at the point where this big country with such differences from one side of the country to the other just isn’t going to work. Am I just a sucker who has been sucked in by all the divisive politics, or are we all really too different to get along? I struggle with this.
I think all it would take is one good leader to unite us...but the political parties seem to be governing further left/right and not in the middle where a lot of us live. I don’t see one of these leaders in either of our immediate futures, but I hope I’m proven wrong.
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msb
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2021, 02:43:36 PM » |
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I think all it would take is one good leader to unite us
I don’t see one of these leaders in either of our immediate futures, but I hope I’m proven wrong.
Hey, ya never know Jason... there just might be such a candidate on the horizon up here. I heard he's just what you're stating we need... is reasonably intelligent and can actually hold a conversation, is as honest as those straight sections of road you have there in Saskatchewan are long and endless, will have some extra time on his hands in the not too distant future, supports fossil fuels (at least until his need to feed 6 carberators subsides, which won't be anytime soon), and already has this cool campaign poster made up.  |
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 02:45:07 PM by msb »
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Mike
'99 Red & Black IS
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Beardo
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2021, 02:47:47 PM » |
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Lol. You got my vote. As long as your security detail won’t have a problem with us going fishing and riding.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2021, 02:48:15 PM » |
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Thanks for taking the time to write that fantastic post.
The current division and animosity is being revelled in by your/our competition around the globe. I appreciate that it’s hard to be united with people who seem to have an end goal that is so far from what you think is right...we have the same thing going on here. After the last 5 years of our current administration, our anthem and our flag don’t stir the same feelings of pride, and I’m extremely disappointed in this loss of love of my country. I will forever love the land, where we live, but I’m getting close to the same view as Serk, where I think we may be at the point where this big country with such differences from one side of the country to the other just isn’t going to work. Am I just a sucker who has been sucked in by all the divisive politics, or are we all really too different to get along? I struggle with this.
I think all it would take is one good leader to unite us...but the political parties seem to be governing further left/right and not in the middle where a lot of us live. I don’t see one of these leaders in either of our immediate futures, but I hope I’m proven wrong.
I've never been further east than Saskatchewan, so I don't really know the mindset of most Eastern Canadians. But, I think I have a pretty good mindset of the western side of your country. I think you have a lot to be proud of with your country. I also think the current political atmosphere can be overcome. It won't be easy. It won't be pretty. It will require a lot of the good will of your fellow Canadians. Much as it will here in the USA. I refuse to believe that our country will be better off split up. As I also do with Canada. May God be with us. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2021, 02:50:02 PM » |
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I think all it would take is one good leader to unite us
I don’t see one of these leaders in either of our immediate futures, but I hope I’m proven wrong.
Hey, ya never know Jason... there just might be such a candidate on the horizon up here. I heard he's just what you're stating we need... is reasonably intelligent and can actually hold a conversation, is as honest as those straight sections of road you have there in Saskatchewan are long and endless, will have some extra time on his hands in the not too distant future, supports fossil fuels (at least until his need to feed 6 carberators subsides, which won't be anytime soon), and already has this cool campaign poster made up. Your going to have to shave. Nobody will vote for a white beard.  |
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msb
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2021, 03:30:59 PM » |
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OK, in all seriousness now.... Bruce... your slant on life in general and thoughts on our current societal/political issues are bang on as usual, as is your articulation of such. I find it hard to believe that people, groups, parties, etc can't at least take the time to listen to opposing views before dismissing them outright or denying that they even exist. It's really not that hard... heck, I've done that successfully for the last 40 years (and so has she  ) Yes there is Right and Wrong and Fact and Fiction, and at some point limits have to be set on blurring those lines, but there is still enough of the in-between as well that can be hashed out to the betterment of most. Unfortunately, the elite "powers that be" who are currently in place in our two countries and who's MO it is to create differences and divide rather unite, are not making it easy. Those of us who remember better times when there was "real" news available to us instead of just opinion and you could and were allowed to agree to disagree without being labeled an extremist of some sort, can only hope....you have to think that at some point a certain level of common sense has to re-emerge into our society, right? |
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Mike
'99 Red & Black IS
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Valkorado
Member
Posts: 10493
VRCC DS 0242
Gunnison, Colorado (7,703') Here there be twisties.
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2021, 09:58:35 PM » |
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And THAT, my friends, is why I've referred to DDT as Socrates. A little something for everyone there. Thank you Bruce for taking the time to compose and share your observations and wordplay with the likes of us haggard old bikers. You have a way of sparking introspection and understanding, like a digital guru on a mountaintop.  Carry on! |
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Have you ever noticed when you're feeling really good, there's always a pigeon that'll come sh!t on your hood? - John Prine 97 Tourer "Silver Bullet" 01 Interstate "Ruby"  |
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Thunderbolt
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2021, 04:17:50 AM » |
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Bruce you did it again. You expressed your thoughts in such a way that everyone can understand. Sure you don't want to run for President in 2024? But no that wouldn't work because you would hold to your campaign promises.
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DDT (12)
Member
Posts: 4112
Sometimes ya just gotta go...
Winter Springs, FL - Occasionally...
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2021, 09:39:44 AM » |
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I think it is naive to expect political parties or practitioners of the 'dark art' to meet or exceed our wants and desires, as neither of those lofty platitudes is their aim at all... They are all about winning elections in the furtherance of acquiring, maintaining, and controlling power and wealth. When their performance is measured against their own objectives, they can only be judged entirely successful. When they are measured against the objectives of the people, however, they can only be judged as miserable failures...
It is the goal of all serious candidates to make the choices clear cut, so they oppose anything proposed by the opposition and propose anything opposed by the opposition. If there is no stark contrast or distinct difference, why would folks want to vote for them and reject the competitor? While lip-service is often paid towards 'unity' and 'bipartisanship', there is actually no sincerity behind those words. There is no need nor intention to find middle ground or compromise... can't divide and conquer with that loosing 'political' strategy... A desirable, essential governance model, it would seem, but not one well suited to decisively winning elections... ergo the outcome...
DDT
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Don't just dream it... LIVE IT!
See ya down the road...
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Bigwolf
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2021, 11:08:59 AM » |
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Bruce,
Thank you for this very well thought out and very well stated post.
I wonder if the masses of people ever will, or even can, realize and become comfortable with the fact that their understanding of the “elephant” is very limited.........unity is the only way forward. Perhaps the only way to find out is to take on that attitude personally and hope that your actions become contagious. It could be the same as eating an elephant one bite at a time.............change the course of society one person at a time. Yes Bruce, I know that you have in fact taken on that attitude as your regular course of action. Good on you man! I am grateful to know you!
Bigwolf
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DDT (12)
Member
Posts: 4112
Sometimes ya just gotta go...
Winter Springs, FL - Occasionally...
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2021, 06:58:02 AM » |
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Jerry,
Some very good questions and astute comments in your reply… as is usually the case! No, most of my thoughts expressed on the general subject are really just wishful thinking borne of frustration with the ease at which we are duped and led around by those who excel at manipulation… It appears our ‘buttons’ are quite visible and easily pushed!
I completely agree with you that unity is the way forward! Indeed, it is my own view that it is the only productive, efficient way forward. That without it, our species is destined to languish mostly in the backwater of stagnation, to remain locked in the same epoch-long cycles that have been our lot since pre-history times…
What ‘progress’ we do achieve is painstakingly slow and more the product of advances in technology and science than of intellectual ascendancy. Although those are intertwined to some degree, human nature has actually changed precious little since before the building of the pyramids… Neither does it appear likely to be perceptibly changing in the foreseeable future!
So, we continue with the cyclical reality of ‘the more things come together, the more inevitable it becomes that they will break apart… The more things break apart or diverge, the nearer we draw towards certain unification…’ Back and forth… that ol’ pendulum continues its perpetual swing… While this curious but frustrated observer continues to watch and wonder… and to struggle to practice what he 'preaches'... I appreciate your thoughts!
DDT
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« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 03:26:57 AM by DDT »
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Don't just dream it... LIVE IT!
See ya down the road...
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Bigwolf
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2021, 02:16:26 PM » |
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Jerry,
Some very good questions and astute comments in your reply… as is usually case! No, most of my thoughts expressed on the general subject are really just wishful thinking borne of frustration with the ease at which we are duped and led around by those who excel at manipulation… It appears our ‘buttons’ are quite visible and easily pushed!
I completely agree with you that unity is the way forward! Indeed, it is my own view that it is the only productive, efficient way forward. That without it, our species is destined to languish mostly in the backwater of stagnation, to remain locked in the same epoch-long cycles that have been our lot since pre-history times…
What ‘progress’ we do achieve is painstakingly slow and more the product of advances in technology and science than of intellectual ascendancy. Although those are intertwined to some degree, human nature has actually changed precious little since before the building of the pyramids… Neither does it appear likely to be perceptibly changing in the foreseeable future!
So, we continue with the cyclical reality of ‘the more things come together, the more inevitable it becomes that they will break apart… The more things break apart or diverge, the nearer we draw towards certain unification…’ Back and forth… that ol’ pendulum continues its perpetual swing… While this curious but frustrated observer continues to watch and wonder… and to struggle to practice what he 'preaches'... I appreciate your thoughts!
DDT
Exactly! In this digital age of information, services, and goods constantly at our fingertips, digital tracking has exposed our “buttons” so brightly that a highly animated laser light show is pale by comparison. What self serving politician would ever let that tempting power tool go unused?! Certainly not a politician with an eye for his/her longevity in politics! I try to unwire my buttons and not be manipulated. I think that I have made some progress in that endeavor but it ain’t easy! Bigwolf |
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