COVID 19

[hubcapsc]

It would be like people taking Emergen-C when they get the flu.

Which is about the same as taking Dr. Hamlin's Wizard Oil Liniment
when you have a bad case of the ague 

It is easy to assert that Emergen-C cures/helps/prevents/whatever the flu,
but an entirely different thing to prove it I guess. And without proof... ?

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Most of the “covid deaths” ARE the normal flu deaths and a large percentage of those deaths are/were people that were ready to die anyway. There’s not a lot of people taken out early hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.

Incorrect on several fronts.

[Rams]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?   

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Hmm, OK.   If you don't want to answer my question, so be it. 

Rams

I thought I answered your question, restrictions on movement of a healthy population is tyranny and violates the rights of travelers. This virus is not the Bubonic plague, it's the Chinese plague and it's nowhere near as dangerous. As I said survival rates for this disease are in line with the flu, and the more people we know who are or have been infected the higher the survival percentages go.

Just think how easy it would be if everyone had Hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet and started taking it along with zinc at the first sign of any problem. It would be like people taking Emergen-C when they get the flu. Hydroxychloroquine used early and often is extremely effective at protecting people against this bug, anybody who says otherwise is lying. The government along with our yapping media have very effectively scared much of the population.

The more I think about this the more it becomes clear to me, ideology seems to be the driver and who is willing to have their rights restricted and/or to restrict the rights of others. Those on the left don't seem to have no problem having their rights trampled, and they definitely don't have a problem trampling on the rights of others.

I'm slightly right of center and slightly libertarian, and enjoy my freedom.

I bolded the parts I question.

With the lengthy and variable incubation time of this virus, how is one to know prior to travel that he or she is healthy.   Temp checks are not all that accurate and nasal testing (even the quick test take time and are proving to be less than 100% accurate.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to be vaccinated and have less opportunity or need for another medication?

We all enjoy our freedom and very few of us like wearing a mask or even dealing with this virus.   I don't believe your political views have much to do with whether or not you get vaccinated.   Just my opinion.   

Rams

[Chrisj CMA]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Most of the “covid deaths” ARE the normal flu deaths and a large percentage of those deaths are/were people that were ready to die anyway. There’s not a lot of people taken out early hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.

Incorrect on several fronts.

Well I’m not delusional so if you can show why this is incorrect, I’m all ears

[Serk]

hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.

The raw number of deaths in the USA in 2020 was an aberration that was well above normal:



Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

By mid December we were already at 12% more deaths in 2020 than in 2019, which works out to 334,000. And that was without the last few weeks of 2020 being included and the lag time of ones that happened before that.

Source: https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

[The emperor has no clothes]

the virus is a fear tool

Actually, it's a deadly lysogenic parasite.

-Mike "they're quite different  "

Deadly? No more than flu, but you go ahead and keep spreading the fear.

No more than flu ?  I’m 63 years old. I don’t remember flu deaths ever coming close. (But go ahead and keep spreading the bs)

Most of the “covid deaths” ARE the normal flu deaths and a large percentage of those deaths are/were people that were ready to die anyway. There’s not a lot of people taken out early hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.

Incorrect on several fronts.

Well I’m not delusional so if you can show why this is incorrect, I’m all ears

I did not imply you were delusional. Finding exact numbers for 2020 is near impossible yet. There is a lag in complete tallying of the deaths. By most accounts there was between 300-500 thousand excess  deaths.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-chart-us-death-figures-2020/fact-check-chart-does-not-present-accurate-us-deaths-figure-for-2020-idUSKBN2872MV
It is also not a fact that regular flu deaths are included in the Covid numbers. It is also not a fact that most people who died due to Covid were “ready to die anyway”. It’s impossible to tell the length of life many of those people would have had otherwise.

(Serk’s chart explains it pretty well)

[Chrisj CMA]

hence the national death rate is pretty much unchanged.

The raw number of deaths in the USA in 2020 was an aberration that was well above normal:



Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

By mid December we were already at 12% more deaths in 2020 than in 2019, which works out to 334,000. And that was without the last few weeks of 2020 being included and the lag time of ones that happened before that.

Source: https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

Maybe. I didn’t check your numbers. But if you remove all the nursing home murders and unnecessary deaths due to failure to early treat And deaths of people that had terminal/critical co morbid conditions like heart disease, COPD and others. The numbers would be way less. And the death rate would be a lot closer to being unchanged.

[Rams]

Some won't put any stock into this but, I thought I'd share it anyway.


Fully vaccinated people don't need to quarantine if exposed to Covid, CDC says

People who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 do not need to quarantine if they are exposed to the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday in updated guidance on its website.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fully-vaccinated-people-don-t-need-to-quarantine-if-exposed-to-covid-cdc-says/ar-BB1dAgjg?ocid=DE_20210211_ENUS_coronavirus_4

[Valkorado]

Many people live decent lives even with heart disease, COPD, various cancers, chronic issues, etc..  Millions of people suffering from disease aren't necessarily the walking dead.

[Serk]

Some won't put any stock into this but, I thought I'd share it anyway.


NBC News logoFully vaccinated people don't need to quarantine if exposed to Covid, CDC says

People who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 do not need to quarantine if they are exposed to the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday in updated guidance on its website.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fully-vaccinated-people-don-t-need-to-quarantine-if-exposed-to-covid-cdc-says/ar-BB1dAgjg?ocid=DE_20210211_ENUS_coronavirus_4

Yah, I posted it in the "Will you get the vaccine" thread, but if you read the fine print the "exemption" is currently only good for 3 months after your 2nd shot (Or 1st for a 1 shot vaccine).

Although I do expect as time goes on and more data is collected they'll extend that time as appropriate...

[Jess from VA]

Boy, these Covid/Vaccine threads have jumped to lead the way in the all time biggest dispute ever.

Makes oil and tire threads pale by comparison.

I'm always happy to see people get motivated and energetic in pursuing their beliefs.  (Except for democrats).

As a real middle of the roader on this subject, I've about given up trying to follow all the information and arguments (except I read everything Connie writes).

Covid is real and it's worse than the flu.  But it unquestionably has been politicized and used (and inflated) to advance political agendas.  Which naturally creates suspicion and distrust.

And it's also damn complicated and new science.

And I've run out of popcorn.

But please carry on.      (really I mean it)

[Bret SD]

It would be like people taking Emergen-C when they get the flu.

Which is about the same as taking Dr. Hamlin's Wizard Oil Liniment
when you have a bad case of the ague 

It is easy to assert that Emergen-C cures/helps/prevents/whatever the flu,
but an entirely different thing to prove it I guess. And without proof... ?

-Mike

WTHeck? Now you want to start on a tangent? People who get the non-vaccine still get the cooties.. so what's yer point Mike? The only cure for any disease is a chemical concoction from Big Pharma? 

[Bret SD]

Mark my words, they WILL attempt forced vaccinations, it may not be at gunpoint, rather it will be through denying your basic human rights, like the right to travel freely and/or crossing state lines as an example.

We are being manipulated through medical fascism.

Sir,
I'm still interested to learn who's rights are being infringed, vacated or removed.   The person wanting to travel (who may potentially be an exposure risk) or the population of the area he's traveling to?   

I would argue that maybe both or neither.  But, that doesn't seem very realistic.   Would the old axiom of "The Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" apply?   Just seeking your opinion.
Who's rights are being violated?

Rams

Our constitutional rights are God given, our constitution is in place to protect us from government overreach. Restricting the movement of sick people is prudent, restricting the movement of healthy people is fascism.

Hmm, OK.   If you don't want to answer my question, so be it. 

Rams

I thought I answered your question, restrictions on movement of a healthy population is tyranny and violates the rights of travelers. This virus is not the Bubonic plague, it's the Chinese plague and it's nowhere near as dangerous. As I said survival rates for this disease are in line with the flu, and the more people we know who are or have been infected the higher the survival percentages go.

Just think how easy it would be if everyone had Hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet and started taking it along with zinc at the first sign of any problem. It would be like people taking Emergen-C when they get the flu. Hydroxychloroquine used early and often is extremely effective at protecting people against this bug, anybody who says otherwise is lying. The government along with our yapping media have very effectively scared much of the population.

The more I think about this the more it becomes clear to me, ideology seems to be the driver and who is willing to have their rights restricted and/or to restrict the rights of others. Those on the left don't seem to have no problem having their rights trampled, and they definitely don't have a problem trampling on the rights of others.

I'm slightly right of center and slightly libertarian, and enjoy my freedom.

I bolded the parts I question.

With the lengthy and variable incubation time of this virus, how is one to know prior to travel that he or she is healthy.   Temp checks are not all that accurate and nasal testing (even the quick test take time and are proving to be less than 100% accurate.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to be vaccinated and have less opportunity or need for another medication?

We all enjoy our freedom and very few of us like wearing a mask or even dealing with this virus.   I don't believe your political views have much to do with whether or not you get vaccinated.   Just my opinion.   

Rams

First of all, I don't believe asymptomatic infection (if it's actually an infection) is a problem, there's no definitive proof, and a huge Wuhan study says it's not a problem. Why on Earth would I take an experimental, unproven and potentially dangerous non-vaccine when my risk of death is near zero 

And please don't offer the 'for the good of humanity' argument, none of it holds water.

Political affiliation may have some bearing, but of course there are exceptions.. again, this is just my observation as I've watched this debacle unfold over the last year+

[Valkorado]

People who get the non-vaccine still get the cooties..

Something like 95% of those fully inoculated with one of the approved mRNA vaccines and then become symptomatic avoid moderate COVID disease requiring medical attention, close to 100% are staying out of ICUs or dying.

[Bret SD]

Boy, these Covid/Vaccine threads have jumped to lead the way in the all time biggest dispute ever.

Makes oil and tire threads pale by comparison.

I'm always happy to see people get motivated and energetic in pursuing their beliefs.  (Except for democrats).

As a real middle of the roader on this subject, I've about given up trying to follow all the information and arguments (except I read everything Connie writes).

Covid is real and it's worse than the flu.  But it unquestionably has been politicized and used (and inflated) to advance political agendas.  Which naturally creates suspicion and distrust.

And it's also damn complicated and new science.

And I've run out of popcorn.

But please carry on.        (really I mean it)

Jess, I've bowed out of political threads and am soon going to get off the covid debate merry-go -round. It's a political disease from the CCP designed to wreak havoc on the world. China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

People have made their decisions, I've only jumped back into the cootie debate since the 'election' has changed the way cooties are affecting us re policy changes.

[Bret SD]

People who get the non-vaccine still get the cooties..

Something like 95% of those fully inoculated with one of the approved mRNA vaccines and then become symptomatic avoid moderate COVID disease requiring medical attention, close to 100% are staying out of ICUs or dying.

HCQ and zinc do the same thing, only safer and better. On top of that it's been proven safe worldwide over decades unlike the experimental non-vaccine.

[Valkorado]

First of all, I don't believe asymptomatic infection (if it's actually an infection) is a problem, there's no definitive proof, and a huge Wuhan study says it's not a problem.

Will, there ya go!  

I thought we were a bit leery of Chinese data.     Lest we forget, they originally denied human-to-human transmission altogether.

[The emperor has no clothes]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

[Bret SD]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

Uh huh.. yep

[The emperor has no clothes]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

Uh huh.. yep

Which ones ?

[Bret SD]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

Uh huh.. yep

Which ones ?

The ones you likely get information from 

[The emperor has no clothes]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

Uh huh.. yep

Which ones ?

The ones you likely get information from 

I guess that’s a no then. Doesn’t it bother you to make such accusations with no merit ?

[Bret SD]

China owns the media, most of govt, colleges etc.

They do ?

Uh huh.. yep

Which ones ?

The ones you likely get information from 

I guess that’s a no then. Doesn’t it bother you to make such accusations with no merit ?

Look it up, do some digging.. you may be surprised what you find

[Bret SD]

Politicians.. in San Diego no less, this city was a solidly conservative city, until Dominion voting machines..

Doublespeak and dodging on full display, tell me how this virus isn't a political tool of oppression by medi-tyrants.
https://youtu.be/VH_nZ5sg8AU

[Bret SD]

Medical fascism in Canada.. Cootie detention centers are real it seems.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-man-in-forced-detention-in-a-canada-covid-camp

[hubcapsc]

Ectoplasmic romance in Canada.. resurrected expired people join dating service

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/hunter-devoted-ghoulfriends-wanted-to-resurrect-dead-man

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ectoplasmic romance in Canada.. resurrected expired people join dating service

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/hunter-devoted-ghoulfriends-wanted-to-resurrect-dead-man

“He had apparently died while on the toilet and there he had stayed.

The problem was that it was also the home’s only bathroom so another was built in the basement. Soon, that went south too and it became unusable.”

Dang, that’s some quality journalism. (I wonder if they are owned by the Chinese ?)

[f6gal]

Yes, we have faced more deadly viruses.  The Marburg virus and the Ebola virus are the most deadly.  However, the most deadly label derives from the percentage of deaths of those that have the virus, not from the number of people it killed. 

There are essentially 2 phases in the viral cycle, lytic and lysogenic.  The lytic phase is the disease producing or deadly phase, while the lysogenic phase is primarily reproduction.  A virus with longer lysongenic phase (like coronavirus) can be spread to more people.  Whereas, viruses that are primarily lytic (like Marburg, Ebola), kill their hosts before the virus can be widely spread to other people.

So, while less deadly per se, the coronavirus has the potential to kill more people, but at a lower percentage of deaths per cases.

P.S.  I like science.

Right, one key ingredient we're missing is a baseline for infections, due to this we have to rely on what we think are infections or infection rates, those remain unknown. Regarding flu we have a pretty good idea of mortality rates has those who come down with flu will know it. Infection with the Chinese cooties isn't necessarily going to show any symptoms at all.

This argument is flawed in that influenza also has a large number of asymptomatic cases.  In fact, asymptomatic influenza cases are estimated at 33-50%, depending on the source.  It is still unclear whether or not asymptomatic transmission occurs in either influenza or the Wuhan coronavirus.  

So yes a higher infection rate can potentially kill more people, and comparing the Wuhan virus and flu death rates are pretty much impossible without an infection baseline for the Wuhan virus. Knowing that, the survival rates for the Wuhan virus infections can only go up from here, not down.  

A moving target of infection rates is a key ingredient in the manipulation, it provides a lot of leeway to those who wish to exploit and control us.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do believe the case and mortality rates were exaggerated for political reasons.  But, from first-hand observation, I can tell you that C-19 is much more serious than the flu.  Survival vs mortality is not the only measure.  Consider, if you will, length of illness, severity of illness, and long term complications.  
 
I can also state unequivocally that certain treatments were politicized and not used appropriately.  The guilty parties (politicians and the media) have blood on their hands, IMHO.  

[f6gal]

Ectoplasmic romance in Canada.. resurrected expired people join dating service

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/hunter-devoted-ghoulfriends-wanted-to-resurrect-dead-man

Do dead people vote in Canada too?

[f6gal]

Boy, these Covid/Vaccine threads have jumped to lead the way in the all time biggest dispute ever.

Makes oil and tire threads pale by comparison.

I'm always happy to see people get motivated and energetic in pursuing their beliefs.  (Except for democrats).

As a real middle of the roader on this subject, I've about given up trying to follow all the information and arguments (except I read everything Connie writes).

Covid is real and it's worse than the flu.  But it unquestionably has been politicized and used (and inflated) to advance political agendas.  Which naturally creates suspicion and distrust.

And it's also damn complicated and new science.

And I've run out of popcorn.

But please carry on.      (really I mean it)

LOL.  I agree with everything you said, grasshopper.  Except the popcorn... I'm off carbs for the time being.

[Willow]

...
I can also state unequivocally that certain treatments were politicized and not used appropriately.  The guilty parties (politicians and the media) have blood on their hands, IMHO.  

Please include Anthony Fauci among those politicians and media.  I don't use his title as there is no acceptable title abbreviation for asshole.

[Serk]

Please include Anthony Fauci among those politicians and media.  I don't use his title as there is no acceptable title abbreviation for asshole.

Moderator?

(I kid! I kid!!!!!!!!)

(Seriously, done what you do, won't do it again, but you left the door so open it'd have been Fauci of me to NOT take advantage of it!)

[f6gal]

...
I can also state unequivocally that certain treatments were politicized and not used appropriately.  The guilty parties (politicians and the media) have blood on their hands, IMHO.  

Please include Anthony Fauci among those politicians and media.  I don't use his title as there is no acceptable title abbreviation for asshole.

Fauci made many, many, many mistakes.  I can't say for sure they were intentional.  I hope not.  But, in hindsight, knowing his politics, it's hard to reconcile his faulty projections and recommendations.  It's funny (not funny) that Trump got the blame for following Fauci's bad advice (following the science), while Fauci is still lauded as a hero by the left.  

[Serk]

In his defense, Dr. Fauci wasn't always held up in respect by the left.....

(During the outbreak of AIDS in the 80's)



...which gives me some small comfort that maybe, just maybe, he's truly trying to do what he thinks is best, regardless of politics.....

[Jess from VA]

LOL.  I agree with everything you said, grasshopper.  Except the popcorn... I'm off carbs for the time being. Cry

I lied about the popcorn.  It's not the carbs for me, it's bad for the teeth.  I still have a bunch of it in my pantry, but I look at it as disaster preparedness food.   

I eat what I want, I just try to have as little as possible of everything.  (it doesn't work as well as I'd hoped, but I keep at it)   

[f6gal]

LOL.  I agree with everything you said, grasshopper.  Except the popcorn... I'm off carbs for the time being. Cry

I lied about the popcorn.  It's not the carbs for me, it's bad for the teeth.  I still have a bunch of it in my pantry, but I look at it as disaster preparedness food.   

I eat what I want, I just try to have as little as possible of everything.  (it doesn't work as well as I'd hoped, but I keep at it)   

I miss carbs (I'll admit I fall short on occasion).  Once I officially achieve a non-diabetic HbA1c, my strategy will be close to yours, but with some calorie counting. 

[f6gal]

In his defense, Dr. Fauci wasn't always held up in respect by the left.....

(During the outbreak of AIDS in the 80's)

...which gives me some small comfort that maybe, just maybe, he's truly trying to do what he thinks is best, regardless of politics.....

Yeah, part of me thinks (hopes) he was ignorantly considering only the science aspect, with no consideration of the real world implications.  He is a scientist, after all.  But, if not him, someone should have been balancing his strict scientific method and thinking against real world repercussions. 

[Serk]

LOL.  I agree with everything you said, grasshopper.  Except the popcorn... I'm off carbs for the time being. Cry

I lied about the popcorn.  It's not the carbs for me, it's bad for the teeth.  I still have a bunch of it in my pantry, but I look at it as disaster preparedness food.   

I eat what I want, I just try to have as little as possible of everything.  (it doesn't work as well as I'd hoped, but I keep at it)   

I miss carbs (I'll admit I fall short on occasion).  Once I officially achieve a non-diabetic HbA1c, my strategy will be close to yours, but with some calorie counting. 

...do with your disdain of carbs, ONLY riding 1800 Valks now, no 1500 Valks any longer?

[Valkorado]

Ectoplasmic romance in Canada.. resurrected expired people join dating service

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/hunter-devoted-ghoulfriends-wanted-to-resurrect-dead-man

"A happier ending came for Pam Babcock of Kansas.

She stayed on the toilet of her trailer home for a month. Her boyfriend even brought her meals into the sacred room and set up a TV.

After a month, her butt cheeks fused to the seat and a crowbar was needed to separate them."

Happier ending is debatable here.    

[Jess from VA]

That is as weird a story as I ever hope to read.

After a few months of rotting, you think you might give on the resurrecting idea.  Ehhh?