Been Out for A While

[F6Dave]

I haven't been around here much for a few months.  My mom died on Christmas Eve and I've been handling all the financial and legal issues.  I want to thank Jess for some good advice.  Even though my mom had everything well organized, it's surprising how much time all these issues consume.  The upside is that you're so busy you don't have much time to think about the sad reality.  In my case that reality was both sad and also disturbing.  If you're curious, read on.

My mom had an unusual life.  She was born in 1930 to Dutch parents in Indonesia, when it was still a colony known as the Dutch East Indies.  When World War II broke out Japan invaded, and the Dutch were placed in concentration camps.  Mom spent three of her teen years separated from family in multiple camps.  It was pretty brutal.  She was malnourished, stricken with Malaria about 20 times (they treated it with diluted quinine so it easily returned), and abused by the Japanese soldiers.  She survived, and after a year was reunited with family in the USA.  Her challenges weren't finished.  She contracted Polio, but luckily escaped without lasting effects.  She went on to live a productive and very active life.  In fact she holds a Senior Olympics record in swimming.

Her active lifestyle slowed over the last few years due to heart disease which required occasional oxygen.  Things got worse a year ago when she was hospitalized for a serious infection.  She recovered very slowly, but had a mild stroke last July.  There were no obvious signs like paralysis or loss of speech, but her personality changed drastically.  She no longer had a desire to live, and talked about death incessantly.  She'd never mentioned such things before.

Then in December she caught a mild case of pneumonia and went to the E.R.  She told the staff of her desire to die.  Even though the pneumonia was treatable, she was so convincing that they allowed her to commit herself to 'palliative care'.  By the time I got there a few hours later they had stopped her meds, were reducing her oxygen, and administering morphine.  She was unconscious within 12 hours, and dead within 48.

In Colorado assisted suicide is legal when a patient has a terminal illness.  Mom wasn't terminal.  From what I've read, 'palliative care' is for patients who may soon be terminal, and I suspect the definition is stretched to cover patients who don't legally qualify for assisted suicide.

I probably would have needed a court order to declare my mom incompetent to keep her alive.  If I'd succeeded she would have been furious as she was obsessed with ending her life.  And she was 90, with failing health, and didn't have a lot of time left.  But it's disturbing that a person who clearly was no longer capable of making critical decisions was able to choose to end her life so easily.  I've read that this can be a slippery slope, and in some European nations it's even easier for people with relatively mild health issues to make the choice my mom did.  That's a scary thought as we get older.

[da prez]

  Dave , our sympathy. The struggles your mom had were immense. She served her time and raised a family.

   I have it written that I choose to stop life support if I will not be able to function.
 Mom was tired. Life could have been prolonged , but it sounded like she wanted to meet her maker.
  Bless your mom. Loosing family or friends is very hard.  Bless you and your family.  You will go on.

                                         da prez and Bonnie

[old2soon]

  Condolences. I'd like to say I understand her take. I'd like to say that. I have a DNR order. I'm Not ready to check out BUT It ain't up to me. I just have no desire to be kept alive with drugs and machines. Course right now drugs and machines are helping me stay alive. Go figure. Figure at 90 and her early life trials and tribulations as a guess maybe she'd had enough. Again-Sorry for your loss. RIDE SAFE.

[Valkorado]

I am sorry for your loss and the surrounding circumstances Dave.  Your mom lived an amazing life.  She is free now.

[Jess from VA]

Hey Dave.  

If that story reveals you are feeling any guilt (or self doubt) at all for your mother's decision and actions, just cut it out.

My dad essentially made the same kind of decision, after beating (recurring) cancer for 30 years.  He was not of perfect mind (as he had been all his life) at the end, but he knew what he was doing and what he wanted.  If anyone had tried to cross him on it, we would have lost his (lifetime of) love.  

To show his determination, after the doc gave him six months, he was gone in 4 days.  I can imagine him saying... well that's about enough of this foolishness, and being a burden to others.  I've had a blessed life, but I'm not waking up tomorrow.  And he didn't.  

We do what we can, but we must honor people we love with the respect and dignity they've earned.

(And it's hardly the same thing as a teen child bent on self destruction from bullying)  

[The emperor has no clothes]

She sounds like an amazing lady to me. You honor her with your care.

[DDT (12)]

Dave,

An absolutely amazing life she has lived! Your level of concern, and your doubt about the rightness of all that has happened are most certainly understandable. You have suffered a significant loss! Each of us has a different take on life, though, its meaning and its value. We also have differing views on the ending of it all.

It appears to me, and knowing you as I do I believe I'm right here, you've done all any loving, caring child could do for such a good and worthy parent. It is time now to accept her wishes and respect her decisions. She has died with dignity and much well-earned respect... She has chosen to take a pass on prolonging the continued degradation and suffering towards the same inescapable conclusion... Let her have her peace... And, allow yourself to find your own peace, too... We're all praying for you, my friend...

DDT

[RP#62]

Dave, very sorry to hear.  We just went through this when my mother passed over Thanksgiving. Tough on the whole family.
I was interested in your mom's story as I had a good friend that had a very similar childhood.  He was also Dutch and went through the same thing in an internment camp in Indonesia.  His name was Peter van Warmerdam.  Great guy - still didn't have much use for the Japanese though.

-RP

[f6gal]

I would think a psychiatric evaluation would be required to ensure sound mind, before signing herself into hospice.  It also seems odd that she wouldn't have wanted to wait until she could say good-bye to her family. 

I'm sorry for your loss.

[F6Dave]

Thanks for all the kind thoughts.  There are great people here.  It's quite a community.

I want to add that I have no guilt or regrets.  While this was happening I spoke with my minister and a wonderful, insightful friend.  We all agreed there was probably nothing I could do, and even if I could it was best to let Mom go.  Interestingly the preacher preached a lot, while my friend listened.

[F6Dave]

I thought so too!  I was stunned by how easy the hospital made it for Mom to literally sign her life away.  She wasn't even asked to reconsider for a few days or consult with family.  She just signed her consent and that was that.  I thought her recent stroke would have raised a red flag about her judgment.  The stroke definitely altered her personality.  But that wasn't obvious unless you knew her because she remained very conversational and convincing.  In fact the nurse hooking up her IV made a comment like 'I rarely see someone as aware as you decide to do this'.  It was a surreal moment.  We were having our final conversation and it almost felt normal.  She was coherent, talkative, and aware of everything.  But absolutely determined to end her life.  She was no longer the same person.

What's still troubling is how this might play out for someone else with serious but manageable health issues similar to Mom's.  Assume that person was going through a temporary state of deep depression, instead of suffering the permanent damage of a stroke.  Given some time that person might work through their depression and want to live again.  Would the hospital allow them to sign their life away so easily?  It's a scary thought.

I would think a psychiatric evaluation would be required to ensure sound mind, before signing herself into hospice.  It also seems odd that she wouldn't have wanted to wait until she could say good-bye to her family. 

I'm sorry for your loss.

[cookiedough]

sorry for your loss, sounds like she was a great mom and lived a long, although not great childhood, good life. Seems a bit odd though that a hospital would agree to help her end her life if not terminally ill.  I do not get that at all.

Luckily I have POA on my mom still alive,  both financially and medical wise.  The hospital enacted it about 5 years ago when she fell down at home unable to get up and never allowed to go back home alone again having altzheimers.   We let it go as long as possible her living at home, looking back on it too long at home alone,  for right about that time 5 years or so ago sort of still in sound mind she said she will NEVER leave and strongly told me that I can NEVER make her leave her home there since 1971.  Things went downhill shortly after that both inability to walk on her own and mind comprehension gone.

Sometimes you gotta wonder what is going on in their minds if sound of mine like your mom seemed to be mentally competent all thru to the end.  My Dad last month of life having an emergency pacemaker surgery 1 month before passing never was the same that one last month NO emotion, NO smile, NOTHING not himself visiting him in the rehab place which did NO good for him unable to return home ever again right back into the hospital last week.  When I talked to him was like talking to a brick wall did not really respond to much at all sort of zombie like.  I think he gave up on life but never told anyone kept it to himself knowing the end was near.  I think he did not want to worry my MOM for she was the worst worry wort I ever will meet in life and Dad was everything to her life taking care of him literally the past 20 years of his life forced to retire age 55 due to 3 spinal cord surgeries.  After Dad passed my Mom went crazy literally at home all alone with nothing to do, having to go to a psychiatric ward and heavy meds hallucinating, etc., very bad and scary.  Toughest few years of my life ever.   I think when I go want it to be quick like a stroke/heart attack and over with in a few seconds.  Seeing family members suffer for years whether be from cancer or mental issues or other illnesses takes not only a toll on that person but their family long term as well.

My mother in law is acting sort of weird lately in very good health, age 78 also like my mom,  she is getting her ending of life in order going over everything with my wife and getting rid of stuff in her house since she does not want us to be burdened with getting rid of useless items to us.  Her house is spotless and not cluttered like my mom's house is hoarding buried alive literally disaster zone feel like taking a match to everything and having one heck of a bonfire.  I think mother in law being couped up all alone in her house due to COVID past 1 year is driving her batty (goofy) for her parents lived to around age 90 and her at age 78 in very good shape mentally and physically.  We do not see her much at all like we should but a lot of that is her not wanting to catch COVID from us.  Maybe her apprenhension to see others will change after her 2nd COVID shot very soon? 

[Farside]

Wow, What an Amazing life your mother lived. She was blessed to have lived so long and she recognized it. I really admire her accomplishments thru such diversity in her early life. I'd of enjoyed talking with her. Offering up prayers to you for your loss.

[F6Dave]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Her dad feeding their pet Bengal tiger.  Yes, they really had two of them for a while.
She slept with it when it was really young and said it scratched quite badly.


On the beach with her brother.
Krakatoa is in the background.


Her dad, chauffeur, and their car.  Her dad was a surgeon and fairly wealthy, especially for Indonesia.
He was also in the Dutch Navy.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Her dad feeding their pet Bengal tiger.  Yes, they really had two of them for a while.
She slept with it when it was really young and said it scratched quite badly.


On the beach with her brother.
Krakatoa is in the background.


Her dad, chauffeur, and their car.  Her dad was a surgeon and fairly wealthy, especially for Indonesia.
He was also in the Dutch Navy.

Very cool ! Do you have any left over books you want to sell ?

[F6Dave]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Her dad feeding their pet Bengal tiger.  Yes, they really had two of them for a while.
She slept with it when it was really young and said it scratched quite badly.


On the beach with her brother.
Krakatoa is in the background.


Her dad, chauffeur, and their car.  Her dad was a surgeon and fairly wealthy, especially for Indonesia.
He was also in the Dutch Navy.

Very cool ! Do you have any left over books you want to sell ?

I think so.  I need to check one of the boxes of her stuff in my trailer.  I want to get them out so I can get my old '98 Tourer out and ride it!

[F6Dave]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Very cool ! Do you have any left over books you want to sell ?

I think so.  I need to check one of the boxes of her stuff in my trailer.  I want to get them out so I can get my old '98 Tourer out and ride it!

I found 6 of the books and may have a few more in another box.  I sent you a PM if you're still interested in one.  Need to hit the road and get my shot now.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Very cool ! Do you have any left over books you want to sell ?

I think so.  I need to check one of the boxes of her stuff in my trailer.  I want to get them out so I can get my old '98 Tourer out and ride it!

I found 6 of the books and may have a few more in another box.  I sent you a PM if you're still interested in one.  Need to hit the road and get my shot now.

Sorry, I didn’t see it. I’ll send you a message.

[h13man]

Dave,

An absolutely amazing life she has lived! Your level of concern, and your doubt about the rightness of all that has happened are most certainly understandable. You have suffered a significant loss! Each of us has a different take on life, though, its meaning and its value. We also have differing views on the ending of it all.

It appears to me, and knowing you as I do I believe I'm right here, you've done all any loving, caring child could do for such a good and worthy parent. It is time now to accept her wishes and respect her decisions. She has died with dignity and much well-earned respect... She has chosen to take a pass on prolonging the continued degradation and suffering towards the same inescapable conclusion... Let her have her peace... And, allow yourself to find your own peace, too... We're all praying for you, my friend...

DDT

You are quite the writer of life and you couldn't have presented this life scenario any better.

God Bless you Dave to having such a wonderful mother in your life. As time goes on you will heal and become more understanding of her decision. We recently had to make that decision with oldest son. God will keep them close as we all be united eventually and all will be good. May they both rest in peace.

[F6Dave]

There's a lot to do when someone dies.  That's not necessarily a bad thing because it keeps you busy.  I've needed to close bank and credit card accounts, go through belongings, transfer the title and sell the car, and track down tax forms.

However, BY FAR the most difficult task has been closing the Amazon Prime account!  I tried to close it online but they wanted to send a verification code to a cell phone number that no longer exists.  Finding a customer service number is quite a challenge, and when I finally talked to someone they couldn't close it either.  In the future I'll be avoiding Amazon as much as possible.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A little over a decade ago my mom wrote a book about her unusual life.  I published it and she would sell it at cost when she'd give talks about her life to schools (she was a retired teacher) and other small groups.  Luckily some photos survived the war and I included them in the book.  Here are a few.

Very cool ! Do you have any left over books you want to sell ?

I think so.  I need to check one of the boxes of her stuff in my trailer.  I want to get them out so I can get my old '98 Tourer out and ride it!

I found 6 of the books and may have a few more in another box.  I sent you a PM if you're still interested in one.  Need to hit the road and get my shot now.

I just want to say for any of you interested in history, jump on getting a book if Dave has any left.  Just a little ways in, but it’s a very honest, thoughtful, interesting story.