Gun gurus, what’s it worth?

[NewValker]

Thought I’d check with the gun brain trust here first, any idea what this is worth?
It came from my father, but no story of any kind. Plenty of patina...only words I can find are pictured.
Came with a bayonet, a powder horn, and a flask-looking container with very old powder in it.
Any info appreciated!

Thanks,
Craig

[Patrick]

It appears to be a .57 caliber musket used by the south during the civil war.
Is it smooth bored or rifled ? Most are smooth bore.
Actually, I don't think its worth much.

[Jess from VA]

Craig, this looks like your rifle.   ( CLASSIC ‘BARNETT’ MARKED, BRITISH 1853 TYPE 3 ENFIELD PATTERN PERCUSSION RIFLE-MUSKET, .577 caliber, rifled bbl)

http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/longarms/14163



Yours is in petty rough shape.  It needs cleaned up, but not too cleaned up.  You could try to run it by some local collector shop if one is near you.  

That would be a fine wall hanger.

https://collegehillarsenal.com/Attic-Confederate-Marked-Barnett-Pattern-1853-Enfield-Rifle-Musket
There is no English gun maker who could more appropriately be called the “Gun Maker to the Confederacy” than the London firm of John Edward Barnett & Sons. During the course of the American Civil War, Barnett delivered thousands of Pattern 1853 “Enfield” rifle muskets, as well as Pattern 1853 Artillery and Pattern 1856 Cavalry carbines to the Confederacy.

But without question, some of them were carried by Union troops too.  The Enfield Pattern P1853 was used by both the North and the South in the American Civil War, and was the second most widely used infantry weapon in the war.

There is a shop 50 miles from me (in Middleburg VA) that carries a huge quantity of old and really old stuff in fine shape, and he is routinely called upon to estimate values for NRA HQ here in NoVA.

http://www.davidcondon.com/



The powder horn carried bulk, and the flask may have been set up to pour just the right amount for a single load.  (I'd get rid of the old powder, it's not a collector item)

This one looks rougher than yours, and lists for $395 (I wouldn't, but I'm not a Civil War collector).  https://www.ima-usa.com/collections/p-1853-enfield/products/original-british-p-1853-three-band-enfield-type-rifle-untouched-full-stock-parts-gun-with-bayonet

Correct bayonet.   https://www.ebay.com/c/1447017471

Do not shoot that thing.  

When I tested my old 1888 Mauser commission rifle (8mm smokeless cartridges), I sand bagged it on a
bench, tied a string to the trigger, and got behind cover.  Five shots and it didn't blow up, and the brass was not deformed, but it went on a wall forever after.

The other few guys on the line got behind cover too.    

[The emperor has no clothes]

It appears to be a .57 caliber musket used by the south during the civil war.
Is it smooth bored or rifled ? Most are smooth bore.
Actually, I don't think its worth much.

The real question is not how much it’s worth, but what is a Yankee from Massachusetts doing with  a Confederate gun ?  Rumor has it that Craig’s ancestor snuck behind enemy lines and pilfered it. It’s pretty cool Craig. I’d clean it up and make a display with all the associated stuff. 

[da prez]

Just an FYI ,do not clean the rifle until you get it checked out.  Unless you want a wall hanger , cleaning will damage the value.  I have several old rifles waiting to go in.

              da prez

[NewValker]

Thanks all,  good links Jess, thanks.
Rob, did ya ever think that I might have some south in me? My shed is an old box truck & my wife swears I’m a redneck...
Patrick , I didn’t know they had rifled bores then, I’ll check it out, thanks.
Ross, I’ve done nothing but blow the dust off of it so far. Guy from work is interested in it, so maybe we can make a deal. I called the 2 places near me that I frequent for guns & ammo, 1 is closed for now, no stock, no ammo, and the other isn’t interested.
And no, not interested in trying it out. I’m ugly, but like my face haha

Craig

[..]

Thanks all,  good links Jess, thanks.
Rob, did ya ever think that I might have some south in me? My shed is an old box truck & my wife swears I’m a redneck...
Patrick , I didn’t know they had rifled bores then, I’ll check it out, thanks.
Ross, I’ve done nothing but blow the dust off of it so far. Guy from work is interested in it, so maybe we can make a deal. I called the 2 places near me that I frequent for guns & ammo, 1 is closed for now, no stock, no ammo, and the other isn’t interested.
And no, not interested in trying it out. I’m ugly, but like my face haha

Craig

That's a nice piece of history if your father has the story about it.

Be a shame to let it go?

[Jess from VA]

Craig, I doubt any regular gun shop or store would have any interest in it at all, except to give you a pittance for it, then mark it up for quick sale. 

As the 2d most common rifle carried in the Civil War (behind the Springfield Model 1861), it's not particularly rare, nor is it anything close to pristine. 

I bet someone at the Springfield Armory Museum (National Park Service) might be able to give you better info about it, or value, or point you to a local collector shop.  About 50 miles from Oxford MA.

As a possible family heirloom, be a shame to sell it for beer money.  IMHO 

Course, it's none of my business either.

[NewValker]

I wish I knew the story on this gun. My Dad died in 1985, and he never said anything about it. On his deathbed, he told me where his guns were and to secure them. His family came from Canada around  1900, so I doubt it’s a family heirloom but I really don’t know...

Jess, I quit drinking, but maybe I’ll use the money for chrome....   and I wanted your input, that’s why I asked.

Craig

[Jess from VA]

Well I'm glad to help when I can.  I found out what it was, but I didn't do much on the actual value question; I just don't know much about civil war stuff. 

I do know I don't want to defend myself with a front-loading single-shot smoke pole (even with a long spike on the end).   

[Patrick]

Some were muskets [ smooth bore] and a fewer number were called rifle muskets [ rifled]. That kinda seems like a misnomer to me, but,,,,

Muskets were popular. They are cheaper and easier/faster to reload which was kinda important back then.


quote "One receipt from J.E. Barnett & Sons (London), dated July 3, 1862 documents the shipment of 8,260 smoothbore muskets from Liverpool, bound for the Confederacy. The arms appear to be part of a lot of some 30,000 “obsolete & defective muskets & rifles” that were purchased by Barnett f " quote

Maybe yours could be one of these. Do you know which side it may have come from ?

There was one that sold at auction about 10 yrs ago for $3K.

[Andy Cote]

Road trip!

Go see the folks at Amoskeag Auction Company in Manchester, NH (actually, with COVID, may be give them a call first).  Feel free to use my name.  Agree with the fine folks posting before me as to value.  Not overly rare nor exceptional condition.  Unless you have the documentation that it was carried by someone famous, do not expect to buy a new car from the proceeds.