I HATE DOING PLUMBING !!!

[scooperhsd]

Especially old CPVC. Line broke down in the basement (MIL area), right as I was leaving for Physical Therapy. At least she still has it together enough to shutoff the water to the whole house when it happened. Still don't have it completely fixed (washer still doesn't have hot water - it drips), but at least the rest of the house does.if something breaks overnight - I can shutoff the input to the water heater. Still some other stuff to deal with down there, but I'm too tired and frustrated tonight.

[cookiedough]

joys of home ownership.....

I still remember in 1993 coming home from work both of us to find 2 inches of standing water all over my basement floor 24x46 feet of it.  Luckily was a Friday night and spent the next 2 full weekend days to clean it up.  If that happened now having a basement full of crap on the floor,  would be disastrous.   Sump pump failed and downpouring rain all day long several inches.  This town seems to have an abundance of water yet just our water/sewer bill averages about an outrageous 110 bucks per month the highest by far of any city or town within 50 miles of us.

[hubcapsc]

What's not to like?



-Mike

[Jess from VA]

Plumbing was designed to make men crazy. 

[DirtyDan]

Plumbing was designed to make men crazy. 

Or wealthy

Dan

[old2soon]

      A now Dear Departed friend and I specialized in mobile home repair in the winter in Northern Il. and Southern Wi. 98% of our after hrs calls were-tada-plumbing related. Froze some jeans and jackets BUT I could Afford it!  Sold some mobile home skirting jobs along with the plumbing work. Rolls in Rolls in my-you Know the words!  RIDE SAFE.

[Oss]

Simplesafe has option for sensor that can alert  you  when water detected

It saved  us once

[$ Ball]

+ 1 on. That Oss

[Rams]

Especially old CPVC. Line broke down in the basement (MIL area),

SNIP

 but I'm too tired and frustrated tonight.

The way I see this is, you have several options.   
Option 1:  Throw the MIL a life vest (or not) and give her a whistle for when the water reaches neck level.
Option 2:  Turn off the water to the house if there isn't a way to isolate the leak.
Option 3:  Call a plumber and let the MIL in know the leak is in her area so the costs is also hers.
Option 4:  Tell the wife where the tools are and let her have at it.

Just trying to give you options that don't require a lot of stress on yourself.   Get some rest.

Rams 

[f6john]

I’ll take cpvc over galvanized any day.

[Patrick]

Hmm, I'm surprised. I like CPVC, been using it for 50 yrs with no problems. I wonder why you're having problems.

[hubcapsc]

Hmm, I'm surprised. I like CPVC, been using it for 50 yrs with no problems. I wonder why you're having problems.

I did my whole house in cpvc so I don't have to differentiate between
hot and cold...

-Mike "oh no! did I put the right kind of elbow on that hot?"

[scooperhsd]

Ok - having a night to rest and get more rational about it -

There is a joint above MIL bathroom (actually 2 - hot and cold) where the CPVC connects to copper pipe that feeds the washer up on the first floor. The original source of the problem was that the CPVC fitting cracked .Unfortunately  - unlike my NC house where I had shutoff valves on EVERY SINGLE USER OF WATER, this house has the house supply and the feed into the water heater only. When I decided to give it up last night, I put a ball valve on the CPVC (in case my latest attempt on the fitting to copper failed again) so I could have hot water through the house (except the washer). Well, apparently I'm not doing something right ( I'm using teflon tape on a fitting that also has a rubber washer (maybe I shouldn't be using the tape ?)), so I closed the ball valve and started cleaning MIL bathroom where the suspended ceiling tile was in the process of dissolving. There are a couple other ceiling tiles that will also need replacing , but they haven't fallen through as of last night.

[Wizzard]

I like to do plumbing and like cpvc also. If a fitting cracked usually its because it froze at some point. To junction to copper I use sharkbite. Never had a problem

[Rams]

I’ll take cpvc over galvanized any day.

What?   No access to life vests or is the whistle the problem?

Rams 

[scooperhsd]

One other thing - does anybody know what can remove purple primer stains from solid surfaces ? I was thinking I might try bleach....

[signart]

I thought everybody quit using cpvc when PEX came out. Why would one use anything else?

[hubcapsc]

I thought everybody quit using cpvc when PEX came out. Why would one use anything else?

30 years ago when I plumbed my house PEX (or something like it)
had a reputation for breaking at the connectors. cpvc is pretty easy
to work with, easy to get and you don't have to have the crimper
tools...

-Mike "I'd get the tools now  "

[hubcapsc]

When I decided to give it up last night, I put a ball valve on the CPVC (in case my latest attempt on the fitting to copper failed again) so I could have hot water through the house (except the washer). Well, apparently I'm not doing something right

I'm not sure how you're doing it, but I'm the king of doing it wrong. NEVER use any pvc with threads on it.

Here's how I always do it easy and right now... brass ball valve and these kinds of transitions...



-Mike "learn by doing (over and over)..."

[signart]

I thought everybody quit using cpvc when PEX came out. Why would one use anything else?

30 years ago when I plumbed my house PEX (or something like it)
had a reputation for breaking at the connectors. cpvc is pretty easy
to work with, easy to get and you don't have to have the crimper
tools...

-Mike "I'd get the tools now  "

You don't need no stinkin tools with Shark Bite connectors ... and you can remove them and reuse them. PEX doesn't freeze & bust!

[hubcapsc]

PEX doesn't freeze & bust!

My worst fear. If I'd used copper, my worst fear would be
burning my house down.

If/when any of my pipes burst, I'll look into PEX 

-Mike

[scooperhsd]

I like PEX - I redid my NC house with it (to replace the grey poly butulene that DID have class action lawsuits on it for leaking). I could rent the crimping tools, so no problem there either.

MIL's house is an early'50s home, all CPVC or copper (some galvanized / steel). When she isn't living here any more, one of my first projects will be putting in PEX to the greatest extent possible.

I'm not so sure about Sharkbites - the plumber who did the water heater used them to join copper / CPVC.

[Wizzard]

I have sharkbite cpvc to copper in several areas for years and no problems at all.

[Patrick]

Teflon tape ? It probably just me, but, I hate the stuff and think the guy that discovered that crap should be drawn and quartered in the village square. I'm a pipe dope guy.

CPVC. As mentioned I like the stuff. But, when it comes to sticking the pieces together I hate the primers for it. I've had bad luck with that crap. I use the cleaner and the glue, thats it.

There are some code inspectors that look for the primer on the joints and I get in an argument, errrr, discussion with them at times.

Maybe I'm just just a nasty old fart that likes old skool, but, I like what I know works.

[carolinarider09]

Interesting "chart".  Not many folks have a Periodic Chart on the wall.  Sort of like the time my dentist asked me "What's Nu?" and I said 2.43 for U235. 

[hubcapsc]

Interesting "chart".  Not many folks have a Periodic Chart on the wall.  Sort of like the time my dentist asked me "What's Nu?" and I said 2.43 for U235. 

It's brand new from 1979... I got it at the Clemson Library book sale for $2 twenty years ago...

-Mike

[carolinarider09]

Interesting.

Regarding PEX, when I built my house, I did a lot of research and Holmes on Homes was one major source.

He was very fond of PEX and I was not a fan of PVC (except for underground runs for service) and copper was ok but did corrode over time and you did have to get it hot to solder.

So, all the water lines in my house are run with PEX.  I did hire someone to do it but I supplied the tools (which I had purchased with the thought of doing it myself) and materials.  Still have plenty of PEX if needed.

I also installed a water manifold for control of Hot and Cold water sources.  That manifold has one major drawback and that is the length of the line from the manifold to the point of delivery. In this case, the washing machine.  The washing machine turns on the hot water and expects it to be hot.  It has a 50 to 60 foot run from water heater to washing machine.  I have solved this problem but it is something to consider if you build a system/house again. 

[Jess from VA]

It has a 50 to 60 foot run from water heater to washing machine.

My flash heater overseas was like that.

The propane was on the balcony (where it needed to be, since their tanks blew up regularly).

The flash heater was on the kitchen wall.  When it ignited there was a big WHOOSH, and flames.  If you did not do the starting sequence correctly, it would blow itself off the wall.

The shower was all the way in the back of the apartment, and no insulation on any pipes.

You didn't dare get in the shower and turn it on.  You turned the hot water on and waited, when it finally got hot, you added enough cold not to injure yourself.

The propane tanks were all one gallons, and every 5-6 shower, it turned to ice water once you were all soaped up.

So I'd just go out on the 5th floor balcony naked and soapy and change the tank.

Also, the whole country was 220 electric.  Americans hired electricians to do apartment conversions so we could run the 20 110 appliances we brought with us.  My guy only converted some of the circuits.

You cannot believe how fast 110 things run on 220, and how fast they produce smoke and blow up.

It wasn't just a job, it was an adventure.      

[Patrick]

PEX. I got a real bad taste in my mouth from Pex when it first came out. Back then there were several styles with different fittings and tools. There was a huge problem with the fittings failing and it was a royal PITA replacing everything a year or so later when they started failing. The new stuff however seems to be trouble free and easy to install.

[scooperhsd]

After yesterdays fiasco - I decided it would save alot of aggravation to call a professional.

Learned some things.

1. PVC cement should have 24 hours before putting pressure on it. I've gotten by with an hour before, but the 5 minutes I was giving it was for sure not enough, leading to blowouts of my joints.

2. Plumber used sharkbite, PEX and some PEX fittings. Took him about 15 minutes after he got back from a supply run. If I would have used that, maybe 30 minutes (instead of wasting over 8 bours of my time).

[Jess from VA]

If I would have used that, maybe 30 minutes (instead of wasting over 8 bours of my time).

But his 30 minutes (or 8 hours) is somewhat more expensive than yours.  

After about 60 years my master bathtub faucets were leaking.  Well, they had been leaking for a few years, but a firm grip closed them.  Then, the channel locks closed them.  Finally, not even the channel locks stopped a slow drip.  Conventional wisdom is that changing washers should have fixed them, but everything was so old and corroded, I could not get them to break loose.  And there is no shut off, so if I broke something, I'd have no water in the house.

So then I call the plumber.  He was a young guy.  His first comment was.... this is some old stuff.  No kidding.

He got them off, and said they were toast and I needed new.  He told me to take them to the store and find some that looked like them.  Oh no you don't, I'll never get this right.  So I happily paid him to go get them.  Good thing.  They were some ancient Price Pfister stuff.  But he got them working great and no leaks

However, now the difference between luke warm and scalding hot is like a quarter inch on the hot faucet.  But what's life without some excitement?

But at least they don't leak anymore.  And only a small pile of hundred dollar bills.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

After yesterdays fiasco - I decided it would save alot of aggravation to call a professional.

Learned some things.

1. PVC cement should have 24 hours before putting pressure on it. I've gotten by with an hour before, but the 5 minutes I was giving it was for sure not enough, leading to blowouts of my joints.

2. Plumber used sharkbite, PEX and some PEX fittings. Took him about 15 minutes after he got back from a supply run. If I would have used that, maybe 30 minutes (instead of wasting over 8 bours of my time).

Don’t feel too bad. Plumbing ain’t my game either. I probably spent 10 hours and 10 trips back and forth to various hardware and home supply stores remodeling the 2 sinks and shower in the motorhome.

[hubcapsc]

blue glue...

"allow 15 minutes for good handling strength and 2
hours cure time at temperatures above 60 deg F
before pressure testing up to 180 psi."

I count my trips back to the plumbing supply store
in days, not hours...



-Mike

[Patrick]

When all else fails, read the directions.


CPVC cement cures for use within 2 hrs. Actually 1 hr is just fine when applied correctly.

Plumbing is pretty simple.

I'm not a big fan of Sharkbite, never installed any. I think the ones I've had to recently replace may not have been installed correctly and when they leak, they LEAK.  One blew completely off. I don't have a problem with solder.

[h13man]

Over the past 32 yrs. my home has been totally re plumbed with PVC/CPVC. The pro's: Easy to work with, cost effective, and repair, when you have a leak, you will know it unlike copper that may leak from LONG periods of time and cause damage much greater. When doing CPVC you prime both pieces and add glue to both pieces and twist and push together, hold 30 secs., and cure at least 2 hrs. but I'm 8 hr. fan if possible. The biggest Con I've seen with CPVC is, if you don't support/fasten it properly it will break/leak as the CPVC age's it becomes brittle so be careful working around already present CPVC plumbing. CPVC install suggestion, use the purple primer that way when the joint glued you will be able to see it got glued. Also you can get good buzz on under the house due to the fumes emitted from the two products. The only repair I've done is a 3/4" supply line froze and broke. Fortunately I heard the well pump circulating to often in the middle of January was my clue that garage was being flooded.

Copper in my opinion looks good and works well but most leak repair/replacement I've dealt with always involved a metal related component leaking. And I don't bury water lines in the wall unless its a inner wall that support sink's, etc. All my plumbing comes from the floor/crawl space.

Pex is pretty awesome but to do pex the cost is relative higher to install and special tools/supplies needed etc. New construction maybe otherwise rigid plastic for me.

The SharkBite fitting is a compression style fitting similar to a Genova Genogrip water supply fittings but on my last plumbing adventure, I found out that PEX, CPVC, and copper are the same size dia. thus a 1/2" compression coupler will work on all three material variants.

http://www.genovaproducts.com/cpvcuniversal.html

[Patrick]

Can I tell a plumbing disaster story ? Yes, Good.

My next door neighbor which I didn't know well cause she had just moved there called a local well known plumbing co for a stopped bath drain. 4 trucks and 8 guys show up and convince her she needs everything replaced. $18,000 later they leave and her bath drains/toilet still don't work.
I go and meet her to talk to her. I live a quick look at the work. They did replace everything with Pex including faucets stating code requires all single handle faucets.
I crawl under the house and find the vents to her main bath were cut and eliminated.  So I run to Lowes, get some fittings and a few hours later she had a working bathroom. The closest vent for the bath/toilet was 12 ft away. We told those plumbers when they returned to get out and never come back. Come to find out the original owner of the company retired and sold it to these nitwits who continued to use the old company name.