Any of you guys have an idea on why Karen’s trike is running on 3 cylinders

[dalai-lama]

I have been working with Shorty but am at nearly a loss. Got everything together on Karen’s trike and it was not running on all cylinders.  It sat for quite a while so maybe the carbs were gummed so I pulled those and rebuilt them.  No joy as it still is not running on the complete left side.  Compression is good and the plugs are wet so there is fuel and there is spark.

I pulled the carbs a second time just to check my work. They are fine.

Shorty suggested to crack the exhaust in case they were plugged by a mouse nest.  Did that this morning and no joy. I swapped the ECM this morning with one I have.  No joy.  My meter with an inductive pickup on plug 6 correctly reads the rpm which is another good indication that there is spark. 

I am going to swap the pulse generator next but am running out of things to swap or check.

It is something effecting the complete left side.  I already swapped coils and wires even though tthencoils work left and right side just in case.  No joy.

Almost like it is completely out of time where it is firing on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.

[Dan-bury]

When it last ran do you know if it ran well ?? That would eliminate mechanical issues like timing. If not ya may want to check the Cam or at least timing in case the Cam Timing  is off one tooth on the Belt.

[dalai-lama]

I have never seen it run correctly.  Karen said she rode it home from the shop to her house about 30 miles.  She was lucky to get home as the exciter harness was missing from the alternator

[dalai-lama]

Timing light showed the timing is off.  I think the timing disc was not lined up with the gear with the little tit in the disc not in the hole in the gear.  Everything looked lined up in relation to the timing disc but the light shows the timing off when running.

I am carefully removed the belts and am lining everything back up.  I pray that is it.

[dalai-lama]

Checked all of the timing alignment and all of the marks are lined up.

What the timing light shows does not make sense as at idle the mark is up past the reference probably like 10 degrees.  Not sure what to make of that.

[Valkrocket]

Back to basics. You say plugs are wet..... not a fuel problem. Have you pulled plugs and checked for spark on that side.   If that is good only thing left is air. Look in air box ...... anything wrong in there or tubes leading to that side have blockage. Sorry, that's all I got.  Fingers crossed you find it soon.
Glide-on>>>>>>>>>>>

[Avanti]

If the valve train timing is off than you would have valve piston interference, that would be bad. Hopefully it is not that.

[Wall]

I know im not a honda guy but, check the intake manifold for blockage or bad gaskets. It may not be getting the draw of air that it needs.
I'll shut up now.

[dalai-lama]

Figured out the weird timing light issue.  I had no timing light as I did not need one since 1979 .  The new light has the ability to dial in an advance and see it adjust.  I accidentally hit the dial which has no resistance. Once I turned it back to 0 it was ok.

[ybnorml]

A case of human error Brett  ???

[matt]

Did you have all 6 plugs out for compression check? I see you said first time it was low then did wet test and it was up and rechecked later and still up, so we're all plugs out? If not can give you fake compression reading if bad head gasket if leaking into cylinder next to it.

Matt
Derry
Been trying to figure this out from without being able to dive into it in front of me

[dalai-lama]

Matt the first time no the plugs were not all out.  But funny you mention the leakage as that is an idea that Shorty mentioned as well.  With the complete carb swap and having the same issue on the same cylinders I think I have removed the carbs as being the issue.

Everything also lines up for the timing and after I saw the issue with the timing gun advance dial that shows correct as well.

I am ordering head gaskets and will pull the head off the other motor and see what happens then. Probably sometime this week.

This is probably one of the most bizarre things that I have seen

[dalai-lama]

Lots of human error Terry but mine was just the light .  I really want to get this sorted out!

[matt]

All I can say its awesome that you took this on,  I met Karen in 16 Inzane and became friends.
When you get that head off let us know what you find as it sounds like you have checked and rechecked the three things needed for combustion engine to run. Air, fuel and spark.
If possible do one more compression check

Matt

[dalai-lama]

Matt the first time no the plugs were not all out. 

You know now that I think of it I did have all of the plugs out the very first time I checked the compression.  I remember now that I showed my wife the different cylinder values just so I could talk to someone .  I see where you are going with this and will pull all the plugs and check again today.

[ybnorml]

Lots of human error Terry but mine was just the light .  I really want to get this sorted out!

Glad you were able to figure it out Brett....My comment above was totally made in jest.
If anyone had the knowledge and determination to figure out that issue, it would be you....

[dalai-lama]

And it was taken all in jest Terry.  I have stories to tell on things that I did find but those will wait because I think maybe there is a light at the end of this tunnel and that might be possible.

I am going to see my sister and brothers in NH this Saturday which will be good.  Have not seen them in over a year!

[dalai-lama]

Pulled all of the plugs and did compression test wide open throttle on left side.  All were 150psi.

Kills the cross cylinder leakage theory.  I had my hopes.

[matt]

Huh not what I was expecting, so next question i know ya probably did numerous times. Make sure the right cylinder wire going to coils to cylinders are correct

Matt

[matt]

Wish I had a day we were both available, would love to be at bike and help you go over everything. Sometimes I been stumped and another set if eyes is all it took

Matt
Keep us posted, send personal message if needed and Karen does have my #

[Dan-bury]

Brett, I use an  infrared thermometer for multi cylinder engines for testing.
 Run the engine and check each exhaust pipe temp to see what cylinder is dead. It can help narrow things down. If you get cold cylinders you can figure no ignition, but if the temps are up on all 6 then more towards fuel or timing  as your getting the fire in the cylinder to produce heat but not enough or not at the proper time.

[dalai-lama]

I had the boy come up on Sunday and he triple checked all the input wires to the coils are correct and all of the output plug wires to the correct cylinders. I had checked multiple times myself but I wanted that extra set of eyes

He and my daughter-in-law came over last night with a new WRX that they just picked up an hour before.  I asked if maybe I could use that engine

[dalai-lama]

Hey Dan.  Yup I bought a laser thermometer at harbor freight about 4 weeks ago and have checked.  All right side exhaust warms up nicely.  Left side is stone cold with the #6 maybe slightly warmer than the #2 and #4.  First time I checked it was about 50 degrees out and right side were 160 and left side were like 47.  It was chilly that morning.  I have repeatedly checked after I have made any change just for verification.

[matt]

Alright next question another one that may have been answered. Did you open drain screw on carb? Compare flow best you can left side to right? Make sure its flowing?  If flow looks good spark plugs dry and then run again plugs now wet or still dry.

Matt

[dalai-lama]

Yup Matt.  Same flow on each carb.  I had the boy also open each carb drain on Sunday just so I could have some else physically see.  Plugs still wet.  Other than the occasional pop after running a bit nothing is happening. 

Remember this is a complete separate set of carbs in there that came from the other interstate that I never touched.  For both sets to have the same issue on the same carbs seems like the probability would be pretty low. 

I am checking everything as I go round and round.  Head gaskets will be in Friday and I will work on it again on Sunday.  Will change the pulse generators even though I doubt that will make a difference but it is something I can do before swapping the head.  Then I will swap the head.

Someone on the tech board said they had a warped head but were chasing it as a carb problem. I posted that I was interested in knowing the symptoms they were seeing to think it was a carb problem but no response so far.

I will keep you guys posted on Sunday.  I sure hope it is with a bunch of

[Valkrocket]

I'm sure you already checked but, you got spark and you got gas.......are you sure you got air getting into that side? 

[dalai-lama]

Air box is completely off Ron.  Not putting that back on until this is fixed as it is a pain in the ass and I have had the carbs in and out multiple times.  This also gives me compile access to the intake side. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Air box is completely off Ron.  Not putting that back on until this is fixed as it is a pain in the ass and I have had the carbs in and out multiple times.  This also gives me compile access to the intake side. 

Being that the air box is already off, maybe disconnect the fuel hoses from the fuel rails and see if there is equal flow to both sides.

[dalai-lama]

On Sunday I got ready to pull the head but figured I would swap the pulse generators from the other motor I have. Not to bad a job with one motor out and the other not having the heat shield behind the radiator as not having that makes dealing with the carb banks easier.

The trike seemed to be running better. I pulled the plugs to check them and they seemed to not be wet. I put the 3 right side back in and it was hot and I got distracted and started the bike with the 3 left cylinders with no plugs.  It started and of course was noise with an air pump on the left but that got me to thinking.  If it ran with only plugs on the right, would it run with only plugs on the left?  So I put plugs in on the left and took the plugs out on the right. I started it and it ran!

That is definitive that it is now firing on the left side. I put all the plugs in and it is running. There is an occasional pop that makes me think it is leaking some air in.  Not often and more right after rev’ing it up and going to idle.  While the carbs are out I am going to desmog it.

Now to put things back together. I need to swap the original carbs back as well and adjust them.  But I do see a light at the end of the tunnel!

Strange that the pulse generators made a difference but that is the only thing that changed on Sunday. But at this point I will take magic

[RonBou]

It's not magic Brett. It's called perseverance. Good job!

[Tony C.]

It's not magic Brett. It's called perseverance. Good job!

Agreed, well said! Glad you've got it figured out Brett!   

[ybnorml]

It's not magic Brett. It's called perseverance. Good job!

You nailed it Ron....perseverance is determination !!
Brett has it, and has proven it once again....

[matt]

Its nice when things start coming together. Keep up the awesome work!

Matt

[holmes]

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[Wall]

see

Go Wookie Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://giphy.com/gifs/star-wars-gif-wookie-mPfK2YvGl2eNG