Dark wet spark plugs

[andym]

I wanted to change my plugs as routine maintenance item. The bike has abour 35 k miles and the plugs were done at least once by the prior owner. The bike has been running a bit funnyand get fairly poor gas mileage even though I ride like grandma Moses accoring to my riding buddies. Two years ago  I had the stealership tell me I had a bad head gasket and repaired it for $1000. Now that I pulled the plugs and see that they are dark and wet and that one of the possible causes is a bad head gasket Im a bit concerned but Im not headed back to the dealer. I also pulled the cobra pipes and replaced them with OEM pipes about 2 years ago. The carbs were rejetted when the Cobra pipes were added by the prior owner but I left those jets in when I put the OEM pipes back on so it could just be running rich?

The wet dark plugs can aslo be from bad valves, etc.  Should I do a compression test ? Rejet the carbs ..Your input is appreciated..........:-)  Could there be gas seeping past the Petcock causing a partial hydrolock and wet cylinders? Im going to pull the tank next month and thought about changing the vacuum lines and the petcock or rebuilding it since the bike is 10 years old...

[Warlock]

You might want to go back with the stock needles. This will help and also improve you gas mileage. I would also have someone re-sinc your carbs. I haven't heard of a lot of head gaskets going bad. Usually hydro locks messes up the starter and that could cost a pretty penny to repair. Peck cocks leaking isn't the cause of the hydo lock. It's the seats in the carb bowls. Of course it could leak back thru the # 6 intake tube threw the vacuum line from the peck rooster. A leaking peck rooster needs to be repaired.
David

[asfltdncr]

Change Jets,then see if it runs better before spending anymore time or money into that problem.

[art]

I am changing the head gaskets because my valk with 100000 mis. had water in the oil an was running bad .#1 cyl . was not firing at all.I did all the carb work I could an it didn't help at all then I found the water in the oil .Total cost will be about $300 for gaskets an seals .I'm also doing a valve job an am suprised to find that the valves are almost perfect like new.A little laping of them an back to good shape..I will be finished in a few weeks an will post a report about how it runs.I've been having trouble for a year an a half with bad performance an I hope this fixes it.Art

[Patrick]

I tend to agree that your problem is riding style and jet size.. Either ride harder or replace the jets. , or go to the next range hotter sparkler..  Your the first I've heard of that has had a defective head gasket, how or why did the gasket fail??

[R J]

I'd put my $$$$  on the bob tailed mare.

Nuttin wrong with it to start and this was a good experience for the Tech........

I didn't say that.........   But that was my thought......

I've seen too many Tech's as they are called that did not know thier arse from a hole in  the ground screwing around on motors.

Especially at CHP garage over the years.

They finally woke up and are now using FACTORY trained Tech's.

[andym]

Wish I knew why gasket failed . The stealership was NO help. THey are VERY independent here in NJ.
I think I saw jets and needles ? for almost $280 ... Is that right ..looks pricey? Ill check HDL and Ron Ayers  since the local  stealerships here are insane with prices.
Im getting better doing some of my own work but I have a long way to go and Im no where as good with bike repairs as most of the folks in this forum......but I never give up. Wish there was someone local in NJ that I could pay and assist so at least I can get educated . The dealers here wont let you into the shop because of "insurance regulations".......I will admit the forum here is great help for us non mechanics................Thanks again folks

[andym]

Rejetting the carbs
THere is an article in shop talk on how to rejet the carbs but the photo links dont work. Anyone know if there is another article with pics

[andym]

More Info

I pulled the recipt that the original owner gave me date Oct 2000 and it says they installed " Jet Kit COBRA Roadstar" Ok maybe the Roadstar jets also fit the Valk I/S ? When I check part 087608  online, the description agrees it is a Cobra Jet kit, but the photo (see link below) seems to look like it is only 6 jets  and I believe the short ones like that are the slow jets?? So would that make a big difference on gas mileage or performance or plug fowling?

http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Cobra-Jet-Kit-Road-Star-1600

[Ricky-D]

I wanted to change my plugs as routine maintenance item. The bike has abour 35 k miles and the plugs were done at least once by the prior owner. The bike has been running a bit funnyand get fairly poor gas mileage even though I ride like grandma Moses accoring to my riding buddies. Two years ago  I had the stealership tell me I had a bad head gasket and repaired it for $1000. Now that I pulled the plugs and see that they are dark and wet and that one of the possible causes is a bad head gasket Im a bit concerned but Im not headed back to the dealer. I also pulled the cobra pipes and replaced them with OEM pipes about 2 years ago. The carbs were rejetted when the Cobra pipes were added by the prior owner but I left those jets in when I put the OEM pipes back on so it could just be running rich?

The wet dark plugs can aslo be from bad valves, etc.  Should I do a compression test ? Rejet the carbs ..Your input is appreciated..........:-)  Could there be gas seeping past the Petcock causing a partial hydrolock and wet cylinders? Im going to pull the tank next month and thought about changing the vacuum lines and the petcock or rebuilding it since the bike is 10 years old...

Are you talking about one or two plugs or all of them?

Are the plugs uniformly colored and wet or only a few?

When you talk in generalities you get general answers.

If you want some specific help, you need to give better and more definitive information.

***

[andym]

Sorry
Im home just 2 weeks out of major spine surgery

If my wife catches me working on the bike ....ouch

Ill sneak out there tomorrow and pull the plugs that arent under the pods

[Patrick]

Sorry, I can't help with the Cobra Jet Kit, I don't know what that consists of.. Stock high speed Jets are #100 and can be obtained from Sudco and are fairly inexpensive, I don't know without looking if they have/stock needles.. I do know that these monsters will 'soot-up' the sparklers if it is not 'ridden with authority'.. It really doesn't hurt to 'let the badger loose' once in a while..

[John U.]

The short ones are the main jets, the slow jets are narrow but longer, 35's are stock, many of us change to 38's to reduce the likelyhood of clogging from ethanol, but the pilot screws have to be adjusted. Here's link to slow jets cheaper than Sudco: http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/product_family.asp?family%5Fid=11180&gift=False&mscssid=08AE4CACA68EC45E6B6C1EE4174FEC90

[fstsix]

If all your plugs are consistent with darkness, you might be able to adjust your mixture screws back in, and lean it out, before you start digging to far. try 1 1/2 turns on the pilot screws after you put some new plugs in it. hope your wife don't see ya.

[andym]

Thank you all again. This group has so much collective and amazing knowledge and it so giving with their time and knowledge. I feel so much more comfortable with the VRCC than my local mechanic. I found from experience that many, not all, of the mechanics are just parts changers. In my experience, they change a part and send you off. If you come back with the same problem, they change another part and so on until they get the right one. I realize this is a gross generalization but I had a mechanic down the jersey shore soak me for over $800 after 3 trips to the shop, when all that was wrong with the bike was dirt in the fuel tank. One of my dearly departed friends from the VOA finally took over and diagnosed the problem which cost me $6 for some Techron and some time to flush out the tank and screen. After three trips to the mechanic I continued to be stranded with the bike.
I enjoy learning about this stuff since Im generally handy. Think I just need to get over the fear factor that Im going to mess up my bike :-)

[Warlock]

More Info

I pulled the recipt that the original owner gave me date Oct 2000 and it says they installed " Jet Kit COBRA Roadstar" Ok maybe the Roadstar jets also fit the Valk I/S ? When I check part 087608  online, the description agrees it is a Cobra Jet kit, but the photo (see link below) seems to look like it is only 6 jets  and I believe the short ones like that are the slow jets?? So would that make a big difference on gas mileage or performance or plug fowling?

http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Cobra-Jet-Kit-Road-Star-1600

Most of the time when they jet for Cobra pipes they usually just change the needles and not the jets themselves. The needle I refer too are the ones that fits in the slides on the top of the carbs. They stock needles aren't that much and will give you way better mileage than the Cobra needles will.
David

[andym]

David
Thanks ..That was exactly what I needed to know ..............

[Ferris Leets]

If you do ride like Grandma Moses, you should definetly look at adjusting the slow jets, it may not solve the whole problem but it will get better.  If the high speed jets are oversize then you will have no choice but going back to stock.  I had not heard about changing the needles but every other bike forum that I've been on has said the same thing.  Stick with the stock needle and you get better gas mileage.  I am fairly new to these monsters but this is just general internal combustion motor knowledge.  I would not go to a hotter plug, something else is the problem.
    The one thing I believe is that HONDA built the Valks right.  You can not do much to a stock Valk as afar as after market stuff to gain performance.  That is, without modifying the basic system, new heads, new pistons, chargers etc.
Mine is stock and with the carbs tuned and the K & N filter it puts out 102 horses.  If I need/want more I expect to lay out some srious money.

[Warlock]

David
Thanks ..That was exactly what I needed to know ..............

Just a note. Before you order stock needle pull one of the tops off your carb and check one of the needles. If the needles that are in there has a clip where you can adjust them to different heights then you have cobra needles. The stock needles are not adjustable. Some people has added small washers under the bottom whenever they have went with modified pipes. With stock pipes I would go back to stock needles.
David

[9Ball]

Andy, where in NJ are you located?  I've rejetted a few Valks and might live close enough to help you out.

John

[andym]

John (jr horton)
I live near Great Adventure in JAckson,but I work in TUrnersville. Im off on disability till mid February however. Maybe when Im back to work and its a bit warmer, I can take my bike to work or can trailer it down it the weather stay snowy .etc. Meanwhile if you are headed up this way,Im 5 minutes off exit 7A on the turnpike . Got lots of great feedback here but it does sound ike I need to adjust or replace the cobra needles to start with and I will change the vacuum hoses cause I read that can cause this problem and they are 10 years old anyhow. should rebuild petcock,,,,all of which is cheap to do ,then I guess I will go from there ........

[9Ball]

give me a hollar (PM and I'll send my phone #) and we can make arrangements to get your bike going.  If you're going to the trouble to replace vacuum hoses then I have some suggestions and you can order the parts so they're in hand before taking the bike apart.

I'm between Exit 1 and Exit 2 (old NJ joke)....

John

[andym]

John
Im trapped in the house for 3 more weeks ..Doctors orders..but please provide those suggestions of what I can do when the tank is off. I plan to take this bike ( or another Valk ) with me to see St. Peter, so I want to keep it in good shape. I bought an Audiovox Cruise control and need to escape to autozone, etc to get the check valves and some fittings, i did just get a new front tire (did the rear in the fall) , Im doing the plugs this week (those pods are fun to get off) . I was thinking of rebuilding the petcock. I had all fluids done by dealer in 2007 . I plan to ride to LaCross WI with Voa and hopefully do another long ride. Now I have a noise that sounds like marbles tossing in my alternator???

I bought a shop manual and Im trying to teach myself a bit. I lost my good friend, mentor and Valk consultant  (Dan Stocker) in AUgust 2008 when he died of a heart attack suddenly, what a great guy he was. What a loss.

Anyhow my home is 732 446 9483 if you want to chat sometime. I appreciate your help and thoughts. Still some nice folks left in NJ ..LOL

[Ricky-D]

In general, when someone changes the exhaust system, it's usually the main jets that are changed. A size larger.  You cannot and should not change anything until you certify what is presently inside the carburetors.  Determining if there are any stock components and what they are will go a long way to formulate a course of action.

It would be foolish to spend money or starting to make adjustments without knowing exactly what you have!

***

[andym]

I felt the need to get on the boards here and sing the praises of John Horton. He came over week before last and helped (mostly I helped him) pull the carb rack , change all the jets , pull the needle shims, clean the carbs and much more and he is headed back this weekend to help startup the bike, balance the carbs , bleed fluids, etc. I still find it hard to believe in todays world that someone will drive 150 miles round trip , twice to help an absolute stranger.....but then in the VRCC , are there really any strangers..what a great group of people...
I have, in the course of my life made many bad decsions, but based on the people I have met via the VRCC and the VOA, I must say, one of the best decsions of my life was buying a Valk :-)
Thanks John and my dear departed friend Dan 

[Big Rig]

Andy,

I miss Dan's expertise as well, he walked me thru castrating the piggies on my I/S. I have not been on the VOAI board in a while, how is Davey doing?

I will have to look John up (i know he will be checking the board) I am thinking about the same thing with my carbs, as the bike is now 10+ and have never rejetted the carbs...no problems so better left alone...I will PM him later today...

Glad to here you are up and about....keep listening to those docs, some of em are perty smart....

We will have to meet up again along the jersey coast....

Dave

[alph]

Before you go off and spend money on a head gasket, do a compression test and find out for sure if that’s the problem. 

Make sure you do the compression test correctly, read and follow the service manual.  If you don’t follow the book, you’ll get an incorrect reading and you’ll be thinking the worst!!

With out seeing the plugs, and checking out your carbs, it’s hard to diagnose. 

[andym]

ALph
Thanks for the tip . WHen I get the bike all back together, I will remember that if it doesnt run well

Dave
I didnt know you knew Dan Stocker. I still miss him something awful. Not too many folks liek him left in the world...real old school standup guy......
I sent a long email to Davey and tried to get together with her and Lloyd Dean but no response. I have been out of circulation for a while with the neck surgery and Im itching to get the bike running and see some of my biker buddies :-)