SpaceX Inspiration 4 Launch Sept 15

[Oldfishguy]

I find this very interesting.  SpaceX is taking four civilians into space aboard the Dragon.  In most cases this was a lottery system in selection.  One of them is a billionaire and pilot that kind of leads this.  The other three were chosen in different ways for different reasons but are rookies in every sense.  Till now, one either had to be a billionaire or a lifelong dedicated astronaut for a shot at space.  And to boot, these folks are scheduled to circle the earth for three days . . . what a ride!

Netflix is doing a series on this; it is kind of hokey but still interesting.  “Countdown”

To see the earth from space, and to see the darkness of space beyond earth would be beyond dreams.  Risk, yes.  Reward, yes yes.

[Serk]

Alas I didn't win, but I donated a decent amount to St. Jude's to get a chance at one of those seats...

Love to see what's happening with space these days!

[Jersey mike]

Alas I didn't win, but I donated a decent amount to St. Jude's to get a chance at one of those seats...

Love to see what's happening with space these days!

The words “….the final frontier” have a ton of significance, all this experiments and journeys are still just the beginning. One has to wonder where we/they will be in another 2 generations.

Any idea where they are for trip to Mars?

[Moonshot_1]

Alas I didn't win, but I donated a decent amount to St. Jude's to get a chance at one of those seats...

Love to see what's happening with space these days!

The words “….the final frontier” have a ton of significance, all this experiments and journeys are still just the beginning. One has to wonder where we/they will be in another 2 generations.

Any idea where they are for trip to Mars?

Be a long long time before a manned Mars mission. Technology not there yet. Can get there but no can come back yet.

[Oldfishguy]

Alas I didn't win, but I donated a decent amount to St. Jude's to get a chance at one of those seats...

Love to see what's happening with space these days!

The words “….the final frontier” have a ton of significance, all this experiments and journeys are still just the beginning. One has to wonder where we/they will be in another 2 generations.

Any idea where they are for trip to Mars?

Be a long long time before a manned Mars mission. Technology not there yet. Can get there but no can come back yet.

Hmmmmm.

At the rate Space X has accelerated the technology I'd say more like within 5 years. They will have failures along the way, but they seem to learn from them quickly, pick up the pieces and move on before the dust even settles. And that is the difference between NASA and Space X. 

I believe we are in one of those narrow periods in history when historic jumps in space travel are occurring before our eyes.

[Moonshot_1]

Manned Mission to Mars.
Currently only some of the technology needed for a successful Manned Mars mission exists.
First let’s briefly define the mission.
To send a crew to Mars, land on its surface, explore general surroundings, and return home.

With that basic mission plan in mind, let’s play out  the mission.
You can’t launch from Earth. Assuming a crew of four you would need:

A craft large enough for :
4 crew members to live in for 2 and a half years.
2 ½ years of provisions, air and water
A Martian Lander, fully fueled
All the equipment for the Mars Mission

Can’t get that payload off the ground in one shot.

So the Martian craft must be built and loaded in orbit.
A big project but technically possible.
Upon completion, an orbital burn sends it on it’s way.

The crew and craft arrive at Mars. A 6 month journey.
They have a 10 day window to land on Mars, explore the surface and then return to the Martian orbiter for the orbital burn to send them back to earth. Another 6 month journey.  Miss the window and it is another 18 months in Martian orbit till the next window. Hence the added provisions just in case of such an issue.

The big problem arises with the Martian Lander. It must descend into the Martian atmosphere, so the lander will need to have a heat shield.

The lander must be fully fueled not only for the descent, but for the ascent as well. The craft will have to be aerodynamic in shape for its ascent.  Accounting for fuel tanks, engine, heat shielding and aerodynamic shape this will be a very tall craft and be difficult to get out of and into while on the planet.

This will be a heavy craft to land with crew and fuel and heat shield.
It has to be liquid fueled so as to be able to throttle the engines up through the atmosphere and to orbit velocity to meet the Mars orbiter and be able to redock.

We can’t even do that here on earth.

But if we can create a nuclear powered engine with virtually unlimited but variable and controllable  thrust, then that would change things a lot. Less weight and more freedom of design. May not even need a heat shield if you can use the engine to reduce your orbital velocity before you enter the atmosphere to the point you wouldn’t burn up.

So the only current possible Mars mission is to send a crew up and not have them come back. They go with the intent to colonize the planet. This is within the realm of possibility. Barely.  We would have to know we can grow food and make water there. Set it up remotely then, if established, send the crazy crew on their way.

[Skinhead]

What about a refuellable Mars lander?  Stage fuel on Mars prior to the manned mission and refuel after landing.  Also ditch the heat shield prior to launching from the Martian surface, it should no longer be needed correct?  Provisions could also be placed in Mars orbit and a space docking could be made to resupply. 

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do ride a Valkyrie (sometimes), and have stayed in Holiday Inns. 

[Serk]

Although SpaceX's 2026 prediction for the first manned flight to Mars and back is EXTREMELY optimistic, they've got a solid plan in place IMHO. (Disclaimer - I'm a computer geek, not a rocket scientist.)

Knowing the rapid iteration SpaceX is doing, if the government doesn't bog them down too much (SpaceX has already had delays because of government bureaucracy slowing things down) I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the early to mid 2030's realistically...

Basically Starship would leave Earth, refuel in Earth orbit then head to Mars. Starship has been designed to use propellants that can be easily (Relative term) produced on Mars for the return trip. (Methane and liquid Oxygen)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Mars_program

[Moonshot_1]

Although SpaceX's 2026 prediction for the first manned flight to Mars and back is EXTREMELY optimistic, they've got a solid plan in place IMHO. (Disclaimer - I'm a computer geek, not a rocket scientist.)

Knowing the rapid iteration SpaceX is doing, if the government doesn't bog them down too much (SpaceX has already had delays because of government bureaucracy slowing things down) I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the early to mid 2030's realistically...

Basically Starship would leave Earth, refuel in Earth orbit then head to Mars. Starship has been designed to use propellants that can be easily (Relative term) produced on Mars for the return trip. (Methane and liquid Oxygen)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Mars_program

I'd like to see the SpaceX guys launch a lander into earth orbit, do a re-entry, land in the desert southwest, re-launch without any ground support, and go back into orbit at orbital velocity. Do that and Mars is in play.

The problem is you need an engine to provide thrust for landing and a heat shield for the re-entry.
Cover the engine with the shield, can't use the engine, don't shield the engine, engine burns up on re-entry. Plus you are trying to land with a full tank of gas that you need for your launch.

Whhhhatt could possibly go wrong?

While in theory you can produce methane and oxygen on Mars,  the quantities needed to fuel a relaunch would be excessive. You'd need a processing facility to make and store it.

We're not even there yet.

So we have to take everything we need with us.

[scooperhsd]

The whole thing is full of risks. The questions become - what degree of risk is tolerable.

Serk's scenario seems workable, but I also like the idea of putting provisions and return fuel as close to onsite as possible - martian orbit maybe ?

An engine that has virtually endless energy that can be throttled would be a big plus for making this work.

Assembling the Mars mission spacecraft in orbit would seem like a no-brainer, but it will take numerous missions to get the stuff up there and assemble the pieces. Ideally, plans should be made to assemble a rescue craft as well.

If we could invent Star Trek's Warp Drive or Star Wars' hyperdrive, risks would go down substantially.

[Serk]

It won't be this decade, but I really think it's within reach of the next decade...

One data point that will help the return mission, the gravity on Mars is only 38% as strong as it is on Earth, so it won't take nearly as much fuel to leave Mars as it does to leave the Earth.

Also the landing won't use as much fuel or be as violent because of the lower gravity and lesser atmosphere to cause friction and heat.

Of course, in the "Gotta walk before you can crawl" department, gotta get Starship to orbit and back, get it human flight worthy, get it to the Moon and back, then we can get serious about Mars.

[Jersey mike]

 

Although SpaceX's 2026 prediction for the first manned flight to Mars and back is EXTREMELY optimistic, they've got a solid plan in place IMHO. (Disclaimer - I'm a computer geek, not a rocket scientist.)

Knowing the rapid iteration SpaceX is doing, if the government doesn't bog them down too much (SpaceX has already had delays because of government bureaucracy slowing things down) I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the early to mid 2030's realistically...

Basically Starship would leave Earth, refuel in Earth orbit then head to Mars. Starship has been designed to use propellants that can be easily (Relative term) produced on Mars for the return trip. (Methane and liquid Oxygen)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Mars_program

I'd like to see the SpaceX guys launch a lander into earth orbit, do a re-entry, land in the desert southwest, re-launch without any ground support, and go back into orbit at orbital velocity. Do that and Mars is in play.

The problem is you need an engine to provide thrust for landing and a heat shield for the re-entry.
Cover the engine with the shield, can't use the engine, don't shield the engine, engine burns up on re-entry. Plus you are trying to land with a full tank of gas that you need for your launch.

Whhhhatt could possibly go wrong?

While in theory you can produce methane and oxygen on Mars,  the quantities needed to fuel a relaunch would be excessive. You'd need a processing facility to make and store it.

We're not even there yet.

So we have to take everything we need with us.

I knew earths gravity was stronger, but wasn’t sure how much so I looked it up, earths gravity is over 60% stronger than Mars. Thant landing and reaching orbit from earth isn’t really right, unless I’m wrong.

[Serk]

Dangit, I took the monsters to dinner figuring no way would it launch on time, got home, and they're already off!

[RP#62]

Just watched it.  They're at T+18:00 now.  It was pretty textbook.

-RP

[ridingron]

I watch the launch this evening. Nice!   

[..]

Dooood, just use solar power and batteries. C'mon man.

Sandra's son live streamed the launch. He lives close enough. Great halo around the rocket due to the atmospheric conditions.

[J.Mencalice]

"Spam in a can"-Chuck Yeager
So true, so true.

[..]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10000783/Grandfather-builds-mini-Space-X-module-working-doors-grandson-wants-astronaut.html