Decision advise; your personal health & being responsible for caregiving

[Jersey mike]

Ok so Barbara had surgery Monday for total hip replacement on her right side. Her hips are shot. Knew she had low back and hip issues for years but could not treat properly due to being responsible for the care of her parents, so things were put off.

We had a window of opportunity 3 years ago after our youngest graduated HS which were were in the early stages of planning, but 3 weeks before graduation Barbara’s mother passed which is when we took in her dad which turned into almost 3 years of care and now she’s paying the price.

Over the last year+ she’s been fighting back back and hip pain and has lost a good amount of ability with her leg muscles and basic movement.

Hip surgery went well, 24 hour discharge meant home Tuesday. Wednesday visiting nurse came as did a physical therapist, both were optimistic and happy with movement and the look of her leg/wound area.

The plan is a second surgery for the other hip ASAP, the worst hip was done first which was flat, the other is just bone on bone.

Her walking will need some serious work because her body adapted to the pain she was experiencing, she needs to get back to the original factory settings or as close a possible.

So where I going with all this is, weigh the pros and cons if and when the time comes to care for a family member of when and how to care for yourself. It’s important. She’s paying the price for not forcing one of her siblings to step up. The care of family is important but your well being is vital. There will be hurdles, work, potential doctors visits or even kids but it needs to be addressed and figured out.

Don’t misconstrue this as a rant or venting, it’s a little heads up reminder that to care for someone else you need to be healthy enough and strong enough to carry that extra job and continue to keep moving forward through the years ahead.

Sacrificing your body for the care of another loved one serves no purpose in the long run. It’s admirable, understandable and courageous but find the help so you can get yourself squared away.

[da prez]

Bless her HEART.  Therapy will guide her to recovery.  Many times it is painful.  I was in physical therapy for about five years.  Nine surgeries and three joints were replaced.   Therapy before surgery if possible.  The stronger you are  , the better the recovery.
 Now is the time to help her. :police

           da prez

[..]

Sacrificing your body for the care of another loved one serves no purpose in the long run. It’s admirable, understandable and courageous but find the help so you can get yourself squared away.

 

[henry 008]

my brothers and I work on our Families vegetable farm, and can be quite demanding in the summer. My mom is 93 and we have hired on 2 ladies who care for mom 12 hrs a day 7am-7pm. we have security cameras through out the house so that we can monitor her when her caregivers are not there. there are ways to care for your parents without sacrificing your own health.

[scooperhsd]

Mike  - thoughts out for your wife as well as you. Don't forget to take care of yourself  MENTALLY as well as physically - you wouldn't be able to help as much if you're not in a good place either. Get out for some wind therapy as much as you can, as well as exercise and any other outside the house activities you enjoy.

I know whereof I speak - MIL with a worsening case of dementia and wife was diagnosed with cancer in the last month. And I have been playing caretaker for Mom almost since we got here. I do have my music (both orchestra and I have started piano lessons again).

[0leman]

When my Mom fell two years ago and ripped a hole in her arm (she was 101 and living alone at the time), My wife and I  (alone with blessing from sister) decided to that Mom needed to move into an assisted living situation.    I didn't want to burden my wife with my Mom's care.  As it turned out it was a good move.  The assisted living place we chose was very attentive to Mom, especially this last two months.   Mom went home to the Lord the first of the month.  There was not way my wife and I could have given her that level of the care she needed.   Especially with the Virus floating around.

Thankfully my Dad provided for Mom so that she could afford the cost of the assisted living place.

I know some have no choice in taking care of our parents, we were lucky. 

[Patrick]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

[Jersey mike]

When Covid locked everything down and nursing homes were not allowing visitors Barbara could not see her doctor. She also was not thrilled with the idea of trying to get surgery with all the ruckus Covid caused. I really don’t know if she would have had the surgery even if there wasn’t Covid, she did not want to be laid up in the event of an emergency concerning her dad.

Her dad passed last November, we were allowed to visit at will through a back entrance for 3 days before he died. Alzheimer’s sucks!

[Jersey mike]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

[Patrick]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

What ! Didn't know that !
I figured when the move south was permanent I'd look into old timers long term health care insurance, especially home care.
Not much sense in looking if Alzheimers isn't covered.

[scooperhsd]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

What ! Didn't know that !
I figured when the move south was permanent I'd look into old timers long term health care insurance, especially home care.
Not much sense in looking if Alzheimers isn't covered.

You will find Long  Term care insurance VERY EXPENSIVE at your age. MIL has been paying in for over 20 years, and they will cover in excess of $8000 / month for the rest of her life after we get her into a facility. Most people end up using Medicaid and they take your assets (starting with your house). You need to check about Alzheimers coverage.

[Oss]

You have to not be able to do several things to qualify

dementia or alz. is not a factor

For instance if she cant bathe, feed herself, go to the bathroom unattended etc

This is not advice but I know of a case where the person was "unresponsive and had a load in the diaper" during the home visit and met the criteria      

[Patrick]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

What ! Didn't know that !
I figured when the move south was permanent I'd look into old timers long term health care insurance, especially home care.
Not much sense in looking if Alzheimers isn't covered.

You will find Long  Term care insurance VERY EXPENSIVE at your age. MIL has been paying in for over 20 years, and they will cover in excess of $8000 / month for the rest of her life after we get her into a facility. Most people end up using Medicaid and they take your assets (starting with your house). You need to check about Alzheimers coverage.

$8K/month ?  Around here thats about half the cost. That'll still bankrupt most folks I know pretty quick.  Its hard to protect yourself from losing everything. Its been illegal in NYS to sign the house/assets over to the kids for years.
From what I've seen over the past 20 yrs nursing home care is atrocious.

[Jersey mike]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

What ! Didn't know that !
I figured when the move south was permanent I'd look into old timers long term health care insurance, especially home care.
Not much sense in looking if Alzheimers isn't covered.

You will find Long  Term care insurance VERY EXPENSIVE at your age. MIL has been paying in for over 20 years, and they will cover in excess of $8000 / month for the rest of her life after we get her into a facility. Most people end up using Medicaid and they take your assets (starting with your house). You need to check about Alzheimers coverage.

$8K/month ?  Around here thats about half the cost. That'll still bankrupt most folks I know pretty quick.  Its hard to protect yourself from losing everything. Its been illegal in NYS to sign the house/assets over to the kids for years.
From what I've seen over the past 20 yrs nursing home care is atrocious.

NJ has a 5 year look back at finances.

A free consultation with an attorney that specializes in estate planning is a great start, but get started early looking for a qualified and recommended attorney.

If you get your ducks in a row and are comfortable with doing what the attorney recommends to protect your assets then you can rest easier knowing your assets will be there.

I’m a firm believer in people paying their fair share for care, but with Alzheimer’s there’s no help.

My father-in-law worked his entire life, providing for his family, keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table. They struggled for years at times paying the bills and at one point had 3 mortgages on the house if I have the history still straight in my head.

Finally when he was in his late 50’s early ‘60’s they got things squared away financially.

Then he retired with a fantastic pension and health care for life but we couldn’t get them to put their health care to work for them. They couldn’t understand that for them to go to the doctor basically cost them nothing. Hospital stays were next to nothing. A week in the hospital for Barbara’s mother would have out of pocket bills come in the mail for $30.00, $10.00 and such.

When the time came that Barbara and I got involved on a deeper level it was too late for the 5 year look back. We couldn’t get them to create a trust and couldn’t do much with the house.

However, (if I remember correctly) the house cannot be subjected to forfeit provided a spouse continues to live there and his pension could not be garnished entirely provided his spouse was living off that and it was providing to the upkeep and maintenance of the home including paying the property tax.

Also in NJ once on Medicare your assets cannot exceed $2000.00 a month, we’ve been told record keeping is important.

Getting an attorney with a good reputation is worth the money and getting plan together early to protect your assets is the best way to go. Just 4 or 5 months ago Barbara and I got our wills all laid out and are discussing how we want to lay out the future to protect everything without surrendering access to money and real estate holdings.

[Patrick]

Yep, every state seems to have its own laws. We've found that some local lawyers that claim to specialize in this have given some pretty poor info to friends.
In NYS they can not take the home as long as the spouse is living in it, but, they will when he/she passes. Signing it over to family is now considered fraud, that stopped more than a decade ago. I believe they can take all assets down to $7K.
I too believe one should pay for their own care, but, to me, the cost of that care should be reasonable. It is not.

[Oss]

This is why so many create a revocable trust to hold title to the house

Look back is correct at 60 months  You can give all to a spouse no penalty

The shame is when people either do not fund the trust or sell the house shortly after shelling out that money

Some long term care policies have a life insurance component that you can borrow against

You can also borrow against a whole life policy which is golden if you have been putting in for many years you could have well over a million to work with  Again starting whole life early was the key and many are check to check so not optimal by any means

And I am required to say this is not legal advice, pay for it after getting recommendations and reading reviews and actually meeting with an attorney in your state

[Jersey mike]

She’s paying the price for not forcing one of her siblings to step up.

And here is the rub. How do you force a sibling to step up ? Especially when they have different ideas how on what care they should have.

MH, I wish I had the definitive answer to that issue, but I don’t. Every family has different dynamics, number of people and each with their own dynamics and set of issues. Logistics and finances play a huge role also.

I know if she really tried, Barbara could have had one of her siblings take care of her dad for a brief period, she’s the ring leader, the family counselor, the one who is not the oldest but has her stuff together. For the most part she’s the new family leader.

She could have convinced them they all needed to step up but we had made big steps getting Pop settled in here, got a new routine in place and made big steps in his personal care and hygiene. Getting him to shower was a huge battle, and I mean coming close to physical altercations. There were several times he tried to hit me with his belt, getting him to bathe was a challenge learned how to handle, but there were still incidents of refusal. The theme song for taking care of Pop became Tom Petty’s “I won’t back down”.

Caring for a person with dementia/Alzheimer’s is a delicate situation. Routine, routine, routine was vital for us but every Alzheimer’s patient is different. Some are meek, mild and gentle and others are like my father-in-law was, a fighter…he wouldn’t hesitate to try and physically fight.

We came to the conclusion he was almost alway in a state of being scared. He didn’t know us. He didn’t know where he was. He constantly asked when he was going home. He told Barbara one night as she was trying to settle him in bed, “I don’t know who you are but I feel like you’re important to me”. Heartbreaking words to hear on one hand but comforting on the other.

Trying to seek help from family members may not be easy, especially when you feel as though you’ve made progress and you’re not willing to sacrifice that progress because you know how long and difficult it was to get there.

All I can say is try to find the necessary help, even if you as a caregiver need to pay out of pocket from mom/dads funds.

What I’m seeing Barbara go through for the last few years has been tough. She sacrificed herself to be the responsible one and is now on a long road just to walk and live “normal”. I stood by her side through each decision, we made them together. We knew this could be what the consequences would be and sure enough it is what it is.

No one ever said doing the right thing was easy and we’d probably do it again, but no one ever said in doing the the right thing you couldn’t ask for help. Sometimes it’s available, work it the best you can.


Sorry all, didn’t mean to ramble on, the words just came out.

[scooperhsd]

Yep, caring for people can be very demanding as well a costly.

We have done it as many others also have. We have a friend now with radiply advancing Alzheimers at 71 years of age. He has been in the nursing home for less than 6 months now and she is now bankrupt. The cost is $780/day and they take everything you have to pay for it.

Yes they do. We paid $144,000 a year.

The fact there is no coverage for Alzheimer’s care through health insurance is sickening.

Had he fallen down, broken a leg or hip he would have gone to rehab even with Alzheimer’s, insurance even covered his doctors visits for the Alzheimer’s but to need only Alzheimer’s care there are no conditions for this, even if you take away the room and board, nothing to help cover anything Alzheimer’s related.

What ! Didn't know that !
I figured when the move south was permanent I'd look into old timers long term health care insurance, especially home care.
Not much sense in looking if Alzheimers isn't covered.

You will find Long  Term care insurance VERY EXPENSIVE at your age. MIL has been paying in for over 20 years, and they will cover in excess of $8000 / month for the rest of her life after we get her into a facility. Most people end up using Medicaid and they take your assets (starting with your house). You need to check about Alzheimers coverage.

$8K/month ?  Around here thats about half the cost. That'll still bankrupt most folks I know pretty quick.  Its hard to protect yourself from losing everything. Its been illegal in NYS to sign the house/assets over to the kids for years.
From what I've seen over the past 20 yrs nursing home care is atrocious.

Memory care units are evidently less expensive here. $8k / month will more than cover the one that we have looked at ( need to check out some others).

[0leman]

The assisted living place where we were able to place my MOM, was $3100 a month.   Included food and limited care.   When She went in two years ago she was able to take care of herself, totally. She had an apartment all to herself.    So we had the security of knowing someone was around 24/7 and she had good food to eat.  When she had lived in another town some 80 miles away she had fallen several times.  This is why we brought her to our town and sold her home.    Then Covid hit.  At first the place was locked down, eating in rooms only.  Limited movement in the halls.  This was policy the OR Governor decide was necessary.   No visit from outside.  Lots of phone calls.

Finally the shots were available and we were allow visits during the day.  Could go outside and enjoy the place's sidewalks and yard.   Fast forward to about two months ago.  Mom went down hill, a higher level of care was needed, cost $1500 more a month.  Because we, under direction of her doctor, got one of the local hospices involved.  We had unlimited visits even though dear Governor had again did a lockdown.   The staff was checking on her every hour during this period. 

So we were very happy with this place and that my Dad, before he died in the early 80's, had provided for his wife.   The company he had worked for provided at no cost health insurance for Mom plus his pension for nearly 40 years.   

[Jersey mike]

So the last 2 weeks of post surgery has been an eye opener. Patient is coming along nicely. I’m dropping a comment on how impressed I am with the whole process.

I have been vocal on the whole shot thing which may be construed as anti medical advances but on the contrary. I was and I am impressed with the speed the shot was established. Trump said there was a shot coming and low and behold we have a shot. Well done and I’ve left many comments about how impressive that was. “Golf clap Mr.President “

The speed at which Barbara’s recovery is awesome, she still has pain at the suture location and still has muscle issues in her leg but for 4 nights this week she slept through the night and not with an overload of pain meds either which she is now down to 2 oxy a day for a few days. Coincidence, I don’t know.

Her “private” PT has begun and therapist is happy with the first day benchmark.

Having her say she slept good and feeling better is a great day. There’s more work to do to make her goal of the 2nd hip replacement in early November but at this rate of improvement I don’t think is out of reach.

I’ve read several posts about the hip surgery and the quick and positive results which was great to read about but to actually see the results on a weekly basis is cool.

Achieving a good nights sleep is not to be taken for granted.