Just had minor surgery

[Chrisj CMA]

GOOD MORNING VRCC  

Pain pills are working good. I’m a couch potato so if you are working on your Valkyrie or planning on it and you need advice you can call. I can talk you through, take pictures of my parts/assembly if needed or talk you out of it. Lol.

Things I have done a lot of:

Alternator R/R
Wheel R/R front and back
Tank removal
Valves
Timing belts
Fork leaks
Brakes/Hydraulic bleeding
Cleaning tips
Posting pictures


PM me or call at 850 eight 65-five378
My cell is also my business phone so I’ll probably answer “Hello, Wood Perfect “

You won’t be bothering me you will help me from going nuts sitting here

[hubcapsc]

I'm stoned on pain pills, call me for advice on how
to work on your bike... 

-Mike "just plug it in anywhere, it doesn't matter!..."

PS. Glad you're OK...

[6adan]

That is great of you. It will help people who need help and you to keep your mind busy.  I know it is best for me to help and be helped by talking.

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm stoned on pain pills, call me for advice on how
to work on your bike... 

-Mike "just plug it in anywhere, it doesn't matter!..."

PS. Glad you're OK...

Lol Mike. Didn’t think of it that way. I take minimal pain meds. People need not worry. I’m not stoned. But that was a valid observation. Thanks

[Mooskee]

Chris, Hope you heal fast.

[Avanti]

The only winterized motorcycle in Florida.

[Chrisj CMA]

The only winterized motorcycle in Florida.

Lol. But not for the WHOLE winter

[RonW]

been there. don't over eat or under eat.

[Steel cowboy]

Get well soon.

[Grey wolf oz]

GOOD MORNING VRCC  

Pain pills are working good. I’m a couch potato so if you are working on your Valkyrie or planning on it and you need advice you can call. I can talk you through, take pictures of my parts/assembly if needed or talk you out of it. Lol.

Things I have done a lot of:

Alternator R/R
Wheel R/R front and back
Tank removal
Valves
Timing belts
Fork leaks
Brakes/Hydraulic bleeding
Cleaning tips
Posting pictures


PM me or call at 850 eight 65-five378
My cell is also my business phone so I’ll probably answer “Hello, Wood Perfect “

You won’t be bothering me you will help me from going nuts sitting here

Swift recovery !

[RonW]

Hi Chrisj CMA, perhaps, you'd like to field some Q & A on this thread. I've been going over your Power Point presentation on the Rear Wheel Service.

You advised that nothing is gained by overtightening the right shock lower bolt and the caliper plate holding bolt ..... "just snug them up as tight as a spark plug." However after checking the torque spec for the caliper plate holding bolt, I found the torque value stated as 51 ft-lbs in the manual. Not trying to nitpick but with a 51 ft-lbs torque spec, tightening this bolt the same as a spark plug would undertighten bolt.







The threaded section on the stopper bolt screws into a steel boss in the swingarm such that there is no aluminum to steel connection as it would be the case if the stopper bolt was threaded in the aluminum caliper bracket. Neither a significant risk that 51-ft lbs would strip the threads as long as care is exercised.








Btw, does the slot make it possible to position the rear brake caliper bracket incorrectly? I never noticed the slot until I saw the pics but everything went well with my rear wheel installation.

[Chrisj CMA]

I do not think that “slot” can allow a miss alignment of the caliper plate. If you draw an ark that runs through the “slotted hole” with the center of the arc being the axle the slot does not follow that arc so there will be very limited slop or movement.

As far as torque on those to bolts. As stated, they are just pins. 51 lbs is way over kill. So long as they don’t loosen they will do the same job at any torque setting. I probably torque them to 10-15 lb. if you ever had a stuck caliper plate pin/bolt you will be careful with it

[RonW]

okay

[hubcapsc]

I've seen the threads that lower shock bolts screw into
stripped out, maybe from over tightening, maybe from
trying to replace the bolt while there was weight on
the rear wheel. I jack my bike until the wheel is barely
resting on the ground to remove the lower shock bolts,
once they break free you can screw them out by hand,
and when you put them back in you can screw them
all the way in back in by hand. No tension or compression
on the shocks...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

I've seen the threads that lower shock bolts screw into
stripped out, maybe from over tightening, maybe from
trying to replace the bolt while there was weight on
the rear wheel. I jack my bike until the wheel is barely
resting on the ground to remove the lower shock bolts,
once they break free you can screw them out by hand,
and when you put them back in you can screw them
all the way in back in by hand. No tension or compression
on the shocks...

-Mike

Yes start byhand

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm stoned on pain pills, call me for advice on how
to work on your bike... 

-Mike "just plug it in anywhere, it doesn't matter!..."

PS. Glad you're OK...

Lol Mike. Didn’t think of it that way. I take minimal pain meds. People need not worry. I’m not stoned. But that was a valid observation. Thanks

I wouldn’t hesitate to ever call you for advice on a Valkyrie. (Unless you were all hopped up on them OxyContin things)  This is kind of personal, but I missed what kind of surgery you got ?

No more pain pills. You didn’t miss  the surgery

[Chrisj CMA]

Just to clarify what I was thinking. The red arc with arrows show the direction of motion that the plate can move once the axle is installed. So that slot is not going to allow misalignment

[RonW]

roger dat.

[pancho]

Hey Jeff    a couple of us are wondering about the surgery you mentioned... is this something to do with your shoulder that got torn up a few years ago?

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey Jeff    a couple of us are wondering about the surgery you mentioned... is this something to do with your shoulder that got torn up a few years ago?

Ok, no. I hadn’t shared because it’s kinda gross. It was a multiple hemorroidectomy. A royal PITA and not really any fun at all to be honest. And no! No pictures

[pancho]

WHOA,   I had to ask!!!!         won't get that picture out of my head for awhile. 


I said a prayer for you brother, hope your back in the saddle soon.

[Chrisj CMA]

I've seen the threads that lower shock bolts screw into
stripped out, maybe from over tightening, maybe from
trying to replace the bolt while there was weight on
the rear wheel. I jack my bike until the wheel is barely
resting on the ground to remove the lower shock bolts,
once they break free you can screw them out by hand,
and when you put them back in you can screw them
all the way in back in by hand. No tension or compression
on the shocks...

-Mike

Mike, the way I remove the right side shock :

Put the bike on the lift. Second catch
Remove top bolt first and dismount shock from the upper post
Now there is no pressure on the lower bolt

[Bagger John - #3785]

When I put those pins back in, I use a dab of Anti-Seize and de-rate the torque spec accordingly (~5% in terms of noted ft/lb values). The shock pin gets a coating of high-temp silicone grease too.

Never had one give me problems coming back out.

I HAVE seen people experience issues with the brake stopper pin because some "mechanic" thought that Unified National Cross-Thread is the proper approach to take with ALL fasteners.

Start by hand, snug by hand. If the pin bottoms without resistance you may then apply the wrench.

[Chrisj CMA]

When I put those pins back in, I use a dab of Anti-Seize and de-rate the torque spec accordingly (~5% in terms of noted ft/lb values). The shock pin gets a coating of high-temp silicone grease too.

Never had one give me problems coming back out.

I HAVE seen people experience issues with the brake stopper pin because some "mechanic" thought that Unified National Cross-Thread is the proper approach to take with ALL fasteners.

Start by hand, snug by hand. If the pin bottoms without resistance you may then apply the wrench.

Yes. I believe in the anti seize for those two bolts for sure.

[RonW]

reinstalling the shocks, I found that installing the lower bolt before the upper bolt makes it easier to pull the shock to make it a little longer or compress it a smidgen. Albeit, I don't have the shocks on the stiffest setting.

[Chrisj CMA]

reinstalling the shocks, I found that installing the lower bolt before the upper bolt makes it easier to pull the shock to make it a little longer or compress it a smidgen. Albeit, I don't have the shocks on the stiffest setting.

Yep, totally agree. Especially the right side. It takes forever to get the holes lined up for the bottom bolt if its already on its upper mount

[Bagger John - #3785]

reinstalling the shocks, I found that installing the lower bolt before the upper bolt makes it easier to pull the shock to make it a little longer or compress it a smidgen. Albeit, I don't have the shocks on the stiffest setting.

Yep, totally agree. Especially the right side. It takes forever to get the holes lined up for the bottom bolt if its already on its upper mount

I have a couple of screw jacks that come in handy for raising the final drive unit just enough to line things up.

[Chrisj CMA]

reinstalling the shocks, I found that installing the lower bolt before the upper bolt makes it easier to pull the shock to make it a little longer or compress it a smidgen. Albeit, I don't have the shocks on the stiffest setting.

Yep, totally agree. Especially the right side. It takes forever to get the holes lined up for the bottom bolt if its already on its upper mount

I have a couple of screw jacks that come in handy for raising the final drive unit just enough to line things up.

That works as long as the axle then the four final drive bolts are all torqued before you jack up the final drive

[RonW]

that's why these thingies are handy installing the axle and 4 bolts. The thingie is on the left side of the bike and don't get in the way of work on the right side while allowing wiggle room for the right side swingarm.

[Chrisj CMA]

that's why these thingies are handy installing the axle and 4 bolts. The thingie is on the left side of the bike and don't get in the way while allowing wiggle room for the right side swingarm.

 

[Bagger John - #3785]

That works as long as the axle then the four final drive bolts are all torqued before you jack up the final drive

I follow the service manual procedure for this:

Final drive is positioned onto the swing arm (w/ drive shaft engaging U-joint) and the case mounting bolts are put loosely onto the studs. Jack is applied underneath the case (if needed) to line the shock bushing collar up; pin is inserted. Final drive nuts are torqued, the wheel and brake backing plate installed then the axle torqued. Lastly, the shock pin is torqued. The wheel is checked for binding and free rotation before the bike comes down off the lift and the pipes are re-installed.

Yes, I follow that part of the manual as well. It gives me the opportunity to clean and inspect sections of the exhaust which are normally inaccessible.

[Chrisj CMA]

Well keep doing what works for you but that procedure is not by the book.  Proper final drive alignment happens when the axle is torqued while the four bolts are still loose. I’d rather not even have the right side shock on to impede the alignment process

[Bagger John - #3785]

Well keep doing what works for you but that procedure is not by the book.  Proper final drive alignment happens when the axle is torqued while the four bolts are still loose. I’d rather not even have the right side shock on to impede the alignment process

1997-2001 Service Manual. Section 12-3, "Final Drive Removal" and Section 12-18 to 12-19, "Final Drive Installation".

Yes, what I laid out most certainly IS by the book. FWIW, I double-checked the manual before my original comment just to be certain the process is as I've been describing.

[Chrisj CMA]

Like I said do what works for you. If the procedure you described is by the book it’s not the Honda book and I would not recommend that procedure.

Honda book



Correct sequence

[Bagger John - #3785]

Look up the term "superceded".

Mine's a later manual than yours.

Things (and processes) change. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Clearly the axle is tightened before the four nuts. Torquing the four nuts before the axle makes no sense and obviously thereby removes the mechanism for final drive to wheel alignment. I’m not going to argue with you but four bolts then axle is a guess at alignment and not reliable

[Chrisj CMA]

Here’s the glitch. Yes the book says to install the drive as you said on pp 12-18. However, it also says install wheel pp14-8

When you get to the wheel installation it directs you to loosen the four nuts. You have to add both sections together

[Bagger John - #3785]

Just going on what my manual states here. What I suspect is that the procedure was changed to make the final drive the "reference" by which the other parts are pulled into alignment.

I've done it both ways and FWIW can detect absolutely no difference in play, rotational freeness (or impediment), alignment...tire wear. My litmus test is a freely rotating, non-binding wheel. If the parts are aligned and tightened properly, there should be little or no rotational resistance observed.

ETA:

Your comments above make sense, though you'd think the proof readers would have caught this.

[Chrisj CMA]

Just going on what my manual states here. What I suspect is that the procedure was changed to make the final drive the "reference" by which the other parts are pulled into alignment.

I've done it both ways and FWIW can detect absolutely no difference in play, rotational freeness (or impediment), alignment...tire wear. My litmus test is a freely rotating, non-binding wheel. If the parts are aligned and tightened properly, there should be little or no rotational resistance observed.

ETA:

Your comments above make sense, though you'd think the proof readers would have caught this.

Not arguing simply discussing. Once the axle is through the wheel the alignment of the wheel cannot be altered. Once the four nuts are loosely installed there is significant play rotationally for the drive on the swing arm flange. So that being true, it only makes sense that the wheel is the primary reference and the drive must me “told” to marry up with the wheel. This only happens when the axle is torqued while the dive can still move.

[Chrisj CMA]

By combing over these pages I think I know why the writers did it this way. The shock sets the altitude. The axle sets face to face alignment It might be better to install the shock with the lower bolt loose before the torquing sequence. But the axle still will get torqued with the four nuts loose.

Added:  in my case since I don’t remove the exhaust I would need to:

Torque the axle then install shocks, left first then right leaving the bottom bolt loose and then the four nuts followed by the lower shock bolt. I’ll have to ponder this.