Gas leak / opinions

[mauigts]

I have a 97, in progress restoration. CORRECTION: I MISPOSTED EARLIER, FOR THOSE WHO PREVIOUSLY READ THIS. YES, still have a leak, but discovered that it is the right side exhaust pipe which leaks some gas right after I start the bike. It leaks where the union is, (below the side cover). Some of it might be condensation, but it, it is definitely  gas, with a strong  smell of gas. It is not misfiring, so starts and rev's normally. Trying to figure out what's happening. Didn't notice this earlier, so it's something developed in the last couple months.

2nd question: STARTER seems to  e going out. The bending is sometimes sounding like it is loosing engaging  strength. New battery, but it fails to crank a few times, then does, bike starts, happening more and more. So, are we rebuilding the brushes and springs on these, or is everyone just replacing the starter. Starter cranks the engine fine,  once it engages?

Thought I would listen to a few opinions, before troubleshooting it.
Thanks

[hubcapsc]

You'll need to check your petcock, that's probably what it is, and it is
bad for valkyries to have a non-functional petcock because it can
lead to engine damage - if one of your top-ends fills up with
uncompressible liquid and you hit the starter KAPOW!

There's a vent in the OEM pipes in the place you describe the gas
coming out. Exact same thing was happening to a friend of mine.



We fixed his petcock and that fixed the problem. The OEM repair kit
is a "cover set", it includes that wrinkly diaphragm you see in the
pictures and a few other bits.

-Mike

[mauigts]

Thanks,.... yes know about the petcocks, but still a strange site to see fuel leaking from the exhaust, I started turning off the gas, just to prevent any additional problems. Assume,  . . . that the petcock repair kits are still available. Certainly seems like the expense would be reasonable, to not do it. I have 2 Valks, and never experienced  a problem with the other one, which I've owned for 10 years now

[RonW]

"There's a vent in the OEM pipes in the place you [mauigts] describe the gas coming out."

did not know that.

[hubcapsc]

"There's a vent in the OEM pipes in the place you [mauigts] describe the gas coming out."

did not know that.

Is Newport Beach one of those places where you don't have to stand
around for a few minutes watching your bike run with the choke on
while it warms up in the winter ? ... That's the best time to see exhaust
spewing out of the two little vents... I guess they keep water/condensation
from collecting in there and rusting stuff out...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

This is the repair coverset and part number.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/16953-MBZ-B51

If your petcock is leaking fuel (off or on) be very careful hitting the start button.  If you hear any clunking, STOP, and don't hit it again.

[Chrisj CMA]

2nd question: STARTER seems to  e going out. The bending is sometimes sounding like it is loosing engaging  strength. New battery, but it fails to crank a few times, then does, bike starts, happening more and more. So, are we rebuilding the brushes and springs on these, or is everyone just replacing the starter. Starter cranks the engine fine,  once it engages?

It’s hard to understand exactly what you are describing but I think I would do the starter button maintenance if you haven’t already. There is an article in shop talk that details the procedure. It’s rare that a starter fails on a Valkyrie. I have a 97 with closing in on 200,000 miles and the starter is just fine. If the start button needs attention starting can be intermittent.

This was today before our ride

[longrider]

I’m reading his story different.  He has a float valve not holding and excess gas is pouring through the engine.  It has already hydro locked and the starter gears are gone.   

[Chrisj CMA]

I’m reading his story different.  He has a float valve not holding and excess gas is pouring through the engine.  It has already hydro locked and the starter gears are gone.   

I thought that was a possibility too. Maybe the OP will investigate and clarify

[hubcapsc]

I started turning off the gas

If your petcock is busted "on" or "off" or "reserve" may all be "the same"...
When those little diaphragms in the petcock go bad all bets are off. My
friend's bike was like that when he got it. He only started in the garage
a couple of times, and the few times he started after that he started it
out in the yard. The gas spewing from the mufflers left dead spots in the
grass...

-Mike

[mauigts]

Well.. ordered a couple petcock diaphragm kits , as the cost is minimal. Will inspect / repair the petcock first,  as I didn't think the starters go bad very often. When you hit the starter button, the bendix engages and you hear the starter pinion  shaft engage, but it doesn't turn the engine over. This might happen 2 or 3 times, .... or sometimes not, and then it turns the engine over, (brand new battery made by yuesa 220CCA). So, started wondering if the gas leak is leaking into the engine, affecting the starter,  but that makes no sense, since when the bike does start it acts normal, except for the gas leakmin the exhaust, which ...... does stop after the bike runs for a minute?
Don't  think the starter button is a problem, as you push it, you hear the starter engage every time
Also, in the last monthmI did take the bike out for a short ride, gas was low, maybe 1/4 tank, so filled it up. Now, wondering with the comments, that a bad petcock, and a full tank of gas makes for more static pressure, ... which might enhance the leaking, if that is in fact what is happening. Repair diaphragm ordered this morning, if it is bad

Guess  I could lift the tank, disconduct the fuel line, and see if gas leaks with the petcock turned off




So in reality a flooded engine with gas is "the dreaded hydrolock" everyone describes?

[John Schmidt]

If your starter spins but doesn't engage the motor when you hit the button, your bike has had a hydrolock at some point...almost guaranteed. My guess is there's some broken teeth on one or more of the gears involved. Pull the starter and you'll be able to confirm yes or no, my bet is yes.

[hubcapsc]

Guess  I could lift the tank, disconduct the fuel line, and see if gas leaks with the petcock turned off

That might prove it is bad, but maybe not that it is good.

Some kind of vacuum test is what will make you sleep soundly...

I like the test here, I think I like the visual assurance I get when I look
down in there and see the little "valve" close...

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/petcock.htm

Another easy vacuum test that I can't describe in detail involves sucking
a vacuum on the petcock with a mightyvac or something and just
waiting a bit to see if it holds.

I think a "Dreaded Hydrolock" description is that gas can get through
a petcock with no vacuum on it, even just a drip at a time, and also
can get past at least one of the carburetor float valves. After that, it
is the luck of the draw whether or not the affected top end will
be full of uncompressible gas next time you hit the starter button.

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Well.. ordered a couple petcock diaphragm kits , as the cost is minimal. Will inspect / repair the petcock first,  as I didn't think the starters go bad very often. When you hit the starter button, the bendix engages and you hear the starter pinion  shaft engage, but it doesn't turn the engine over. This might happen 2 or 3 times, .... or sometimes not, and then it turns the engine over, (brand new battery made by yuesa 220CCA). So, started wondering if the gas leak is leaking into the engine, affecting the starter,  but that makes no sense, since when the bike does start it acts normal, except for the gas leakmin the exhaust, which ...... does stop after the bike runs for a minute?
Don't  think the starter button is a problem, as you push it, you hear the starter engage every time
Also, in the last monthmI did take the bike out for a short ride, gas was low, maybe 1/4 tank, so filled it up. Now, wondering with the comments, that a bad petcock, and a full tank of gas makes for more static pressure, ... which might enhance the leaking, if that is in fact what is happening. Repair diaphragm ordered this morning, if it is bad

Guess  I could lift the tank, disconduct the fuel line, and see if gas leaks with the petcock turned off




So in reality a flooded engine with gas is "the dreaded hydrolock" everyone describes?

I agree with John. You most likely have broken teeth on the gear the starter engages caused by a hydro lock. To prove this, you could wait until the next time it doesn’t turn over the engine. Stop immediately and push the bike in gear. Then if it starts right up you have confirmed strongly enough to justify pulling the starter and take a look see. If you have broken teeth you may also have broken engine casing parts. This would require pulling the engine to repair.

PS. I wish I could come help with the repair. I used to live in Kihei an still have family on Maui. Good luck

[Jims99]

Once the bike starts and runs, does the starter work normal afterwards? (Before it sits long enough to have a cylinder fill with fuel) I would replace float needles no mater what. There is an upgraded needle (18-8955) that will help from hydro lock even if petcock is not working properly.
If the starter seems normal after initial start, it’s probably the fuel leaking into engine.

[h13man]

If the bike is leaking fuel/hydrolocking, I be more concerned about my oil being contaminated thus I wouldn't even venture to start it anymore. This is the reason to put a Pingle manual shutoff as it seems this isn't a predictable failure. To think 50 yrs./20 bikes I always used/had manual petcocks and could have had a leaky float that I didn't know or found out I had.   

[mauigts]

OK, I am now convinced  that  the bike, does,  has a  petcock failure. Unfortunately, did take it out a couple weeks ago, and did a short ride, gas was low, so FILLED the tank, probably  not the smartest thing, now realizing that it was a leaker.
So, assuming, that it is full of gas and won't crank, what is the correct procedure from here.  Obviously, will remove the tank, repair the petcock... but do you drain the oil, pull the plugs check for gas in the cylinders?
I'm  a bit confused as to hydrolock....if in fact the bowls have floats, that zre supposed to shut off gas, thus not allowing this problem?

So just wondering ... now from here, what are the procedures,  fortunately.. I have another bike,, as its the Holidays, and time to ride... although again this year our.. Toys For Tots run was cancelled

[mauigts]

Just did,  check my oil, and appears to be good, no gas, and normal fill mark

[RonW]

I'm  a bit confused as to hydrolock....if in fact the bowls have floats, that zre supposed to shut off gas, thus not allowing this problem?

if those valves are not seating properly then the second level of defense is gone.

[mauigts]

OK , pulled the tank, and can't get gas to flow out of the petcock in any position. Not going to take it apart, as repair kit not here yet. SO, am I to think, "1" of the carbs has a bad float valve and it has been filling that  cylinder? I was only seeing gas out of the right side exhaust.... but this morning, after cranking it a few seconds, saw lots of gas leaking out of the left side exhaust, 
I filled the tank a week or so ago, and it is not full, probably half? m so definately  am missing gas for the 28 miles, since the refill

[RonW]

OK , pulled the tank, and can't get gas to flow out of the petcock in any position.

..... I was only seeing gas out of the right side exhaust.... but this morning, after cranking it a few seconds, saw lots of gas leaking out of the left side exhaust, 

and how did you get the gas to flow out?

[mauigts]

Well it's not going to flow unless there is a vacuum. Although, funny thing, Had the tank on the tailgate of my truck on its nose, petcock up in the air. I walked away, only to come back a few minutes later to find gas siphoning out of the air vent line. Twice, so that air vent must be a hard line inside the tank to the front somewhere.  Sun is out and a warm day, so pulled its own vacuum to start draining the gas.
So my problem with the excess gas,,has to do with cranking the engine, which allows excess gas into the engine, if.. the bowls are stuck and it is allowing all the extra gas to enter the engine

Thinking about pulling the plugs, and then using a chopstick to see how many cylinders have gas in them. As stated it did this a couple weeks ago, and was able to get it started, idled fine, then rode it about 15 miles. So the problem is fairly recent.

[RonW]

After pulling the plugs, I've been advised to remove the plugs from their wires and plug or tape the boot opening to avoid spewed gas from igniting.

[Jims99]

I would definitely start with petcock rebuild, replace vacuum line, replace all float valves with upgraded ones, pull plugs and make sure there’s nothing in the cylinders, check starter. You don’t want to cause any extra problems by skipping anything, can get expensive. Good luck and hopefully it all goes well.

[Icelander]

Are you certain that it's gas leaking from the exhaust drain holes? I live in a pretty humid area and I get a bunch of condensation on first start-up even on the driest of days. Every time I start her up to warm while I gear up, I startle at the moisture on the concrete.

If the oil doesn't smell like fuel, then I'd start it up and put some sort of container down to collect the drippings. Then smell it to see if it smells strongly of fuel.

Once you get past all that, then I'd chase the starter issue to determine if it's a bad starter/gearing/hydrolock damage.

Hope it's not fuel and that it's something easily fixed.

Happy holidays!!!

[Madmike]

If you suspect that the carbs are leaking into the cylinders you do not want to crank it over unless you first remove the spark plugs.  Once you remove the plugs and crank it any volume of gasoline that is in the cylinder(s) will get pushed out.  You can catch it or minimise how far it spews by putting rags around the plug recess in the heads.  If the carbs are leaking into the cylinders there is no quick fix for this, it means that one or more float valves are not seating.

If the starter is motoring but not turning the engine over then you will have to remove it to see what is going on.  If this is the case then I would check this out first as it means extensive repairs.

Good luck.