Ignition Advance

[Duct Tape]

I take it that if you install a Dyna 3000 module there is really no need for the 4 degree advance trigger wheel mod.  Is that right?

Would appreciate thoughts/experiences with one versus the other.

Thoughts on Dyna 3000 vs 3000 II?

[Ricky-D]

Keep the trigger wheel.

You'll be glad you did!

***

[Patrick]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees and these monsters do not like anything over 27degrees total.. I really don't know anything about the Dyna's other than there were some problems with the earlier units..The original ICMs are pretty bullet-proof and there is a slight advance curve rate difference between the STD/Tour and IS units..I'm not a big fan of advancing the ignition timing on these engines so I guess I would recommend sticking with a stock ICM and using only a lower advance trigger[4] or modifying the stock trigger..

[Airetime]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees and these monsters do not like anything over 27degrees total.. I really don't know anything about the Dyna's other than there were some problems with the earlier units..The original ICMs are pretty bullet-proof and there is a slight advance curve rate difference between the STD/Tour and IS units..I'm not a big fan of advancing the ignition timing on these engines so I guess I would recommend sticking with a stock ICM and using only a lower advance trigger[4] or modifying the stock trigger..

  In regards to the IS ICM unit, you will be advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through the 1800 – 4500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end. A timing wheel that has a 6-degree advance has that advance from start to finish or from 900 RPMs to red line. Because they have a fixed advance all the way through, but they lose top end. By adding another 4 degrees through modifying the timing wheel, you will benefit by not only the I/S ICM programming, but also the fixed additional 4-degree advance. You will have the 4 degree advance in the lower RPMS 900 - 1800 RPMS, full 6 degree advance in the 1800 - 4500 Mid range RPMS and back to a 4 degree above 4500 RPMS. Because the mod of only using an advance of a fixed 6-degree is all the way through, those will run rougher, usually demand high octane and reduce the top end more than you. I ran my Tourer with a fixed 4-degree advance before I got the I/S ICM and I noticed that it ran a little rougher and I had to run the high-test fuel. Once I added the I/S ICM unit it smoothed it out and gave me the low end, mid range and top end that I wanted. You will have an advantage if you combine the both.

I suggest that you also order the Carb-springs while you are at it as they will increase the throttle response and costs only about $13 or $14. If you run a Standard/Tourer with the I/S Carb Springs and a I/S ICM it runs like a stock I/S but doesn't have the extra 100 pounds that it was programmed to carry. Now because it thinks that it is now a stock I/S, it runs like one only faster because it doesn't have the extra weight. Take a look at doing the ECT Mod (in ShopTalk) for even more wallop!

Remember if you install just the IS ICM unit, you are advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through that 1,800 – 4,500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end and the mileage should increase by giving it a better mid range performance, depending on how much fun you are having.

[maniscar]

When you say "loses top end", is that just a HP drop (e.g. 25% loss), or does the engine start to sputter (sp?), fell like it's out of gas because of too much advance at high end?

Thanks,

  Rich

[Duct Tape]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees and these monsters do not like anything over 27degrees total.. I really don't know anything about the Dyna's other than there were some problems with the earlier units..The original ICMs are pretty bullet-proof and there is a slight advance curve rate difference between the STD/Tour and IS units..I'm not a big fan of advancing the ignition timing on these engines so I guess I would recommend sticking with a stock ICM and using only a lower advance trigger[4] or modifying the stock trigger..

  In regards to the IS ICM unit, you will be advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through the 1800 – 4500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end. A timing wheel that has a 6-degree advance has that advance from start to finish or from 900 RPMs to red line. Because they have a fixed advance all the way through, but they lose top end. By adding another 4 degrees through modifying the timing wheel, you will benefit by not only the I/S ICM programming, but also the fixed additional 4-degree advance. You will have the 4 degree advance in the lower RPMS 900 - 1800 RPMS, full 6 degree advance in the 1800 - 4500 Mid range RPMS and back to a 4 degree above 4500 RPMS. Because the mod of only using an advance of a fixed 6-degree is all the way through, those will run rougher, usually demand high octane and reduce the top end more than you. I ran my Tourer with a fixed 4-degree advance before I got the I/S ICM and I noticed that it ran a little rougher and I had to run the high-test fuel. Once I added the I/S ICM unit it smoothed it out and gave me the low end, mid range and top end that I wanted. You will have an advantage if you combine the both.

I suggest that you also order the Carb-springs while you are at it as they will increase the throttle response and costs only about $13 or $14. If you run a Standard/Tourer with the I/S Carb Springs and a I/S ICM it runs like a stock I/S but doesn't have the extra 100 pounds that it was programmed to carry. Now because it thinks that it is now a stock I/S, it runs like one only faster because it doesn't have the extra weight. Take a look at doing the ECT Mod (in ShopTalk) for even more wallop!

Remember if you install just the IS ICM unit, you are advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through that 1,800 – 4,500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end and the mileage should increase by giving it a better mid range performance, depending on how much fun you are having.

Are you suggesting to do the ECM mod in addition to the 4 deg trigger wheel and the I/S ICM?  I thought that I read somewhere that the ECM mod would replace the need for the trigger wheel.  Thanks for the comments.

[fstsix]

To answer your original question, No need to install trigger wheel if Dyna is to be installed. Not recommended or necessary.

[Duct Tape]

To answer your original question, No need to install trigger wheel if Dyna is to be installed. Not recommended or necessary.

That was my understanding.  Just wanted to clarify.  Thanks.

[Willow]

I run the Dyna 3000 on two Standards one of which has been on the Dyna 3000 for 120K miles.  I'm very pleased.  It improves both performance and fuel mileage.

I'm not particularly a fan of the trigger wheel mod, but then I've never tried it. 

[Airetime]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees and these monsters do not like anything over 27degrees total.. I really don't know anything about the Dyna's other than there were some problems with the earlier units..The original ICMs are pretty bullet-proof and there is a slight advance curve rate difference between the STD/Tour and IS units..I'm not a big fan of advancing the ignition timing on these engines so I guess I would recommend sticking with a stock ICM and using only a lower advance trigger[4] or modifying the stock trigger..

  In regards to the IS ICM unit, you will be advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through the 1800 – 4500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end. A timing wheel that has a 6-degree advance has that advance from start to finish or from 900 RPMs to red line. Because they have a fixed advance all the way through, but they lose top end. By adding another 4 degrees through modifying the timing wheel, you will benefit by not only the I/S ICM programming, but also the fixed additional 4-degree advance. You will have the 4 degree advance in the lower RPMS 900 - 1800 RPMS, full 6 degree advance in the 1800 - 4500 Mid range RPMS and back to a 4 degree above 4500 RPMS. Because the mod of only using an advance of a fixed 6-degree is all the way through, those will run rougher, usually demand high octane and reduce the top end more than you. I ran my Tourer with a fixed 4-degree advance before I got the I/S ICM and I noticed that it ran a little rougher and I had to run the high-test fuel. Once I added the I/S ICM unit it smoothed it out and gave me the low end, mid range and top end that I wanted. You will have an advantage if you combine the both.

I suggest that you also order the Carb-springs while you are at it as they will increase the throttle response and costs only about $13 or $14. If you run a Standard/Tourer with the I/S Carb Springs and a I/S ICM it runs like a stock I/S but doesn't have the extra 100 pounds that it was programmed to carry. Now because it thinks that it is now a stock I/S, it runs like one only faster because it doesn't have the extra weight. Take a look at doing the ECT Mod (in ShopTalk) for even more wallop!

Remember if you install just the IS ICM unit, you are advancing it by programming 2 degrees advance through that 1,800 – 4,500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end and the mileage should increase by giving it a better mid range performance, depending on how much fun you are having.

Are you suggesting to do the ECM mod in addition to the 4 deg trigger wheel and the I/S ICM?  I thought that I read somewhere that the ECM mod would replace the need for the trigger wheel.  Thanks for the comments.

I have been running that combo for a while now and am very impressed with the results for the reasons that I stated in my post. The combination works by filling the gaps in the RPMs that are not addressed by the other mods. Top end is speed.

[Airetime]

When you say "loses top end", is that just a HP drop (e.g. 25% loss), or does the engine start to sputter (sp?), fell like it's out of gas because of too much advance at high end?

Thanks,

  Rich

Top end is top speed

[maniscar]

When you say "loses top end", is that just a HP drop (e.g. 25% loss), or does the engine start to sputter (sp?), fell like it's out of gas because of too much advance at high end?

Thanks,

  Rich

Top end is top speed

Thanks Airetime.  So if you don't go above 90MPH, the 6 deg TW (only) should be okay?  I believe it's ~4200 RPM at 90MPH ('03 Standard).

Thanks,
   Rich

[fudgie]

I've done the ECT mod 3 winters ago and I am very pleased. Far better then the TW, imho. Not sure about mileage but I think I only lost 2 mpg.

[Relax]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees ..

Is it the original Trigger wheel that gives this 3,5 degree timing?
If so, a 4 degree TW then only add 0,5 degree ?

OR,,is the original 3,5 degree timing cause by the original I/C and you actually add 4 degree to that with the 4 degree TW?
 

[fudgie]

Original base ignition timing is 3.5 degrees ..

Is it the original Trigger wheel that gives this 3,5 degree timing?
If so, a 4 degree TW then only add 0,5 degree ?

OR,,is the original 3,5 degree timing cause by the original I/C and you actually add 4 degree to that with the 4 degree TW?
 

I believe the I/S oem ICM is already advanced for the added weight of the bike.This is why a 4 is used and a 6 is used on non I/S bikes, they have different ICM. That is why some change to a oem I/S ICM on their std or Tourer. Don't quaote me on all this I havent done any timing reading in a few years!

[Patrick]

The after market triggers add their value [ either 4 or 6 degrees] to the base timing and are therefore there for the entire ride thru the RPM range..

[Ricky-D]

I've done the ECT mod 3 winters ago and I am very pleased. Far better then the TW, imho. Not sure about mileage but I think I only lost 2 mpg.

Not trying to sound argumentative but I installed the 6 degree wheel in my I/S and gained about 2 mpg.
Around 42 miles per gallon regular daily riding.

[John U.]

I did the ECT mod to a 98 Standard which I then changed to a I/S ICM.
I've been pleased with it as well. I too have gained about 3mpg, but some of that can be attributed to the I/S ICM. I can say that it is much quicker than my 99 I/S with no timing mod. Of course, as mentioned, the Standard is lighter.
Still, I can't leave it alone. I've got two 4 degree Airlakes waiting to be installed when I change belts.
No doubt the ECT mod is the biggest bang for not many bucks.