Things you know that turn out not to be...

[Serk]

I've been riding Valkyries for over 21 years now, and know my way around one decently well... I've always started 'em by putting the choke on (If really cold), and simultaneously hitting the starter and futzing with the throttle. That's just what you need to do to start a cranky old carbureted engine, innit? Often times it takes numerous tries to get it to fire but, hey, they're just finnicky old bikes, right?

So the other day I saw a discussion on Facebook about starting our Valks, and Daniel Meyer mentioned you should NOT futz with the throttle while starting 'em, just set the choke if necessary, and hit the starter, nothing else.

No way. That can't be right.

Tried it yesterday. Worked a charm. Tried it again every time I started the bike while out running errands. Did the same thing today, works a charm.

Can't believe I've been starting my Valk's "wrong" for over two decades now.

So that got me to wondering, I bet there are lots of other things we just know to be the right way to do something, but they aren't. Do you have any you've learned to do a different way? Or ones you've seen other folks do that just aren't the best or right way?

Been riding Valks a long time, but won't ever pretend I can't learn more about 'em!

[Whooray]

 
Great post Serk!

[Chrisj CMA]

A pet peeve of mine is, I hate it when someone closes the throttle all the way to shift gears (at least on my bike).  I have learned to close the throttle just enough so when I pull the clutch the engine doesn’t rev up or down significantly. Makes for much smoother shifting.

[hubcapsc]

On super cold mornings my bike doesn't generally start right away. If, after
five or six tries, it doesn't turn on, I stop trying. For ten minutes
or so. I've pretty much never had my bike not start at all. I have
seen people try and try and try until their battery was dead, though.

I don't know if this is "a thing" or not, but it is how I do it...

-Mike

[Moonshot_1]

"So that got me to wondering, I bet there are lots of other things we just know to be the right way to do something, but they aren't. Do you have any you've learned to do a different way? Or ones you've seen other folks do that just aren't the best or right way?"


Don't know why I thought of this but the subject made me recall a story I read. (Not me I assure you)

Some friends were having a conversation and they got to talking about their morning routines.

All shared that they started the day with a shower. One of the friends said "Don't you hate it when you get in and turn on the shower and get hit with the cold water?"

They asked him "Don't you let it warm up before you get in?"

He'd never thought of doing that.

[Patrick]

"So that got me to wondering, I bet there are lots of other things we just know to be the right way to do something, but they aren't. Do you have any you've learned to do a different way? Or ones you've seen other folks do that just aren't the best or right way?"


Don't know why I thought of this but the subject made me recall a story I read. (Not me I assure you)

Some friends were having a conversation and they got to talking about their morning routines.

All shared that they started the day with a shower. One of the friends said "Don't you hate it when you get in and turn on the shower and get hit with the cold water?"

They asked him "Don't you let it warm up before you get in?"

He'd never thought of doing that.

He never thought of doing that ?  Really makes you wonder doesn't it ! And there are more like him out there, and, cold showers aren't the only thing. If common sense was common everyone would have some.

[Patrick]

I've started mine just like Daniel Meyer since 1998. I don't ride in real cold weather though, its always started right up.

[Rams]

I've started mine just like Daniel Meyer since 1998. I don't ride in real cold weather though, its always started right up.

Hmm, interesting.   I've never started any of mine other than the way Daniel said.  Tweak the choke and hit the starer.  Cold weather only.   Always cranked without an issue.  

Rams

[Moonshot_1]

"So that got me to wondering, I bet there are lots of other things we just know to be the right way to do something, but they aren't. Do you have any you've learned to do a different way? Or ones you've seen other folks do that just aren't the best or right way?"


Don't know why I thought of this but the subject made me recall a story I read. (Not me I assure you)

Some friends were having a conversation and they got to talking about their morning routines.

All shared that they started the day with a shower. One of the friends said "Don't you hate it when you get in and turn on the shower and get hit with the cold water?"

They asked him "Don't you let it warm up before you get in?"

He'd never thought of doing that.

He never thought of doing that ?  Really makes you wonder doesn't it ! And there are more like him out there, and, cold showers aren't the only thing. If common sense was common everyone would have some.

A little more on that story. As I recall...
This was told by the guy who started the shower cold.
Apparently that was how he was "taught" to do it when he was a kid. Thought that was the norm.

[Oss]

my battery gave up the ghost

It never fully recovered from my leaving the key on (lights on) for an hour or so earlier this winter even tho I use a smart charger    Once it gets into the teens and such for a few weeks

Next battery I will just take out during those times I know I wont ride as the clock drain is significant

But I must have heard Daniel when I was a wee lad as that is how I always do it on the Valk

[cookiedough]

yah,  never mess with the right hand throttle when FULL choke and start cold.  Mine does not like that either.  I find the choke on all my Honda cycles over the years did an excellent job all by themselves on a cold morning start.  I drove in late 1980's my brothers near new 1985 suzuki gs550l and that engine sucked since day one would not start if below 45 degrees out nearly impossible cold blooded machine.  

Funny story now, but was NOT the first year I had my Valk I/S about 12 years ago or so now.  I found the solution by asking on this website.  I could NOT start the darn thing when cold first startup in the morning or after work when cold again.  It has been addressed 100's of times on this board, but I never knew the FULL choke was another 1/4 inch down very hard on the left hand choke lever.  ONE try down HARD on that choke lever and WALLA, instant fire up.   I was so frustrated on the Valk all summer long I was going to sell it never to be seen again.  

[Jess from VA]

More often than not, if you blip the throttle at all on a cold and choked start, you stall the bike.

Even though it stumbles (and sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders) on cold choked start with no throttle, it keeps going.  After 20-30 seconds of full choke start, you can blip a bit of throttle if you want to, and it won't stall.  (Only after desmog, I have to hold my choke lever full on with my thumb or it slips back just enough to not start, or not stay running; and you cannot see that it moves at all, but it's not on unless held on) (I never lubed those cables and I don't think Big BF did either)

Now with every motorcycle I've had, and lots of other machines, each machine has it's own peculiarities in starting, and you just need to learn them.

My (like new) automatic choke Honda lawnmower will not start cold period (hot or cold weather).  I must pull the air cleaner cover and give a blip of starting fluid (and it fires first pull every time).  For the rest of the day, it starts like a champ.  But not the first start, you could pull the rope till your arm falls off and it will never start.

My opinion is all automatic chokes suck.  Give me a mechanical one.

[Skinhead]

More often than not, if you blip the throttle at all on a cold and choked start, you stall the bike.

Even though it stumbles (and sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders) on cold choked start with no throttle, it keeps going.  After 20-30 seconds of full choke start, you can blip a bit of throttle if you want to, and it won't stall.  (Only after desmog, I have to hold my choke lever full on with my thumb or it slips back just enough to not start, or not stay running; and you cannot see that it moves at all, but it's not on unless held on) (I never lubed those cables and I don't think Big BF did either)

Now with every motorcycle I've had, and lots of other machines, each machine has it's own peculiarities in starting, and you just need to learn them.

My (like new) automatic choke Honda lawnmower will not start cold period (hot or cold weather).  I must pull the air cleaner cover and give a blip of starting fluid (and it fires first pull every time).  For the rest of the day, it starts like a champ.  But not the first start, you could pull the rope till your arm falls off and it will never start.

My opinion is all automatic chokes suck.  Give me a mechanical one.

Does it have a priming bulb?  Couple pumps on the bulb first if it does.

[Jess from VA]

Does it have a priming bulb?  Couple pumps on the bulb first if it does.

NO.  It does not have one damn thing but a pull rope.

At least the aircleaner cover pops on and off one handed (for the shot of ether).

However, it pops off so easy, it came off mowing under my spit rail fence and I chopped it up.  Got another one. 

[John Schmidt]

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

[Clarkcelt]

I think the manual says to NOT mess with the throttle when starting, so I never did.

Interestingly, I have a 2010 Vulcan 900 custom with FI - I start both bikes each week during the winter, and on the coldest mornings, the Valkyrie starts up MUCH easier than the Vulcan does - as long as I put it on full choke.

I saw a video last week of a guy cold starting a Valkyrie, and he did the old Harley trick of opening the throttle a few times BEFORE trying to start the bike - only this guy did it over 13 TIMES! I thought that was nuts at the time, but I know Harley guys with carbureted engines swear by the technique. Anybody else try that?

[h13man]

Other than after winter layup/2 wks., I haven't used the choke for 2yrs. now since I installed Iridium plugs gapped @ .030. When starting I'm straight vertical no side stand stuff. And no touchy throttle for a minute if I wait that long.   Winter layup take about 3 attempt's before starting.

[Skinhead]

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

John, on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?  That would reduce the load on the starter from the trans gears trying to spin in the thickened oil due to the cold.  It would provide more energy to crank the engine and reduce the drain on the battery.

[hubcapsc]

on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?

I never thought about that. But I will... 

-Mike

[cookiedough]

Does it have a priming bulb?  Couple pumps on the bulb first if it does.

NO.  It does not have one damn thing but a pull rope.

At least the aircleaner cover pops on and off one handed (for the shot of ether).

However, it pops off so easy, it came off mowing under my spit rail fence and I chopped it up.  Got another one. 

My newer Toro just like the Honda lawnmower is no choke as well.  I think most all of the mid to higher priced ones are NO primer bulb nowadays.  I too have issues starting it when 35-40 degrees out for the last before winter use.  I usually can get it to fire over after about 15 HARD FAST pulls surprising not breaking the recoil or starter rope.  I was this fall going to buy another Toro but in worse shape for only 50 bucks but I tried and tried and tried pulling fast and hard in mid 40's for temps and could NOT start the darn thing.  The big guy like me owning it came over and after 3-4 pulls, he got it to start.  I guess I am not as strong as I thought I was?  Sorry, if I cannot pull start the mower myself,  I will pass on buying it.  He said it has always been like that YANKING and YANKING the pull rope like a dickens.

[John Schmidt]

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

John, on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?  That would reduce the load on the starter from the trans gears trying to spin in the thickened oil due to the cold.  It would provide more energy to crank the engine and reduce the drain on the battery.

True, except she lives in Florida where I used to live until 2019. Cold starts aren't usually an issue down in God's waiting room...if it's too cold to ride, you're not going to start it anyway.    Strangely enough, in neutral and the clutch not pulled in it actually turned her and her hubby's bike over faster.

[hubcapsc]

on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?

I never thought about that. But I will... 

-Mike

It is 36 here, not that cold. Holding in the clutch (on this one experiment) didn't
seem to help. I did like usual and went back out there and just held in the choke
and it fired up after a while.

I never start it unless I'm going to ride it, I want the alternator to put back in the
juice I sucked out of it with the starting attempts. Now I'm paranoid   ...

Anywho... I put a mouse trap in there while I was there, and later I'll
take the seat off and see if there's been any mouse activity there in the last
week... while I'm there I'll press the test button on my lithium battery...

-Mike

[John Schmidt]

I saw a video last week of a guy cold starting a Valkyrie, and he did the old Harley trick of opening the throttle a few times BEFORE trying to start the bike - only this guy did it over 13 TIMES! I thought that was nuts at the time, but I know Harley guys with carbureted engines swear by the technique. Anybody else try that?

As I stated above, all that does is loosen up your wrist but doesn't squirt any raw gas into the intake since these carbs have no accelerator pump. Wasted effort, and if the HD carbs are without pumps, also wasted effort.

[Rams]

I think the manual says to NOT mess with the throttle when starting, so I never did.

Interestingly, I have a 2010 Vulcan 900 custom with FI - I start both bikes each week during the winter, and on the coldest mornings, the Valkyrie starts up MUCH easier than the Vulcan does - as long as I put it on full choke.

I saw a video last week of a guy cold starting a Valkyrie, and he did the old Harley trick of opening the throttle a few times BEFORE trying to start the bike - only this guy did it over 13 TIMES! I thought that was nuts at the time, but I know Harley guys with carbureted engines swear by the technique. Anybody else try that?

Maybe I'm just silly but, for what purpose would one roll the throttle so many times.   Assuming there is no electric fuel pump, twisting that throttle is only going to allow any previously pressurized fuel to be released.   Once that pressure (if there is any at all) is released, then that throttle twist becomes just an exercise to strengthen the wrist (I would think).  Vaccuum is what pulls that fuel through the system (or so I thought).

Rams

[Skinhead]

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

John, on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?  That would reduce the load on the starter from the trans gears trying to spin in the thickened oil due to the cold.  It would provide more energy to crank the engine and reduce the drain on the battery.

True, except she lives in Florida where I used to live until 2019. Cold starts aren't usually an issue down in God's waiting room...if it's too cold to ride, you're not going to start it anyway.    Strangely enough, in neutral and the clutch not pulled in it actually turned her and her hubby's bike over faster.

I doubt that will be the case where you live now.

[Skinhead]

I think the manual says to NOT mess with the throttle when starting, so I never did.

Interestingly, I have a 2010 Vulcan 900 custom with FI - I start both bikes each week during the winter, and on the coldest mornings, the Valkyrie starts up MUCH easier than the Vulcan does - as long as I put it on full choke.

I saw a video last week of a guy cold starting a Valkyrie, and he did the old Harley trick of opening the throttle a few times BEFORE trying to start the bike - only this guy did it over 13 TIMES! I thought that was nuts at the time, but I know Harley guys with carbureted engines swear by the technique. Anybody else try that?

Maybe I'm just silly but, for what purpose would one roll the throttle so many times.   Assuming there is no electric fuel pump, twisting that throttle is only going to allow any previously pressurized fuel to be released.   Once that pressure (if there is any at all) is released, then that throttle twist becomes just an exercise to strengthen the wrist (I would think).  Vaccuum is what pulls that fuel through the system (or so I thought).

Rams

You are correct, on a carbureted engine, fuel is drawn in by vacuum in the venturi.  Unless there is an accelerator pump (used in carburetors to provide extra fuel when the throttle is opened, which results in a decrease in vacuum, and correspondingly, fuel).  Even with an electric fuel pump, there is no pressurized fuel in the carb bowel, perhaps there is in the fuel line to the carb, but generally it is at low pressure, enough to over come gravity and deliver fuel to the carb bowl.

Fuel injection is another story.  Fuel pressure is what is used to flow the fuel through the injectors, the injectors may open briefly on a key up to provide a prime pulse of fuel, but the throttle doesn't cause the injectors to open when you twist it, the ECM controls the duty cycle on the injectors, which based on the injector flow rate, determines how much fuel is delivered.

 

[Jess from VA]

Anywho... I put a mouse trap in there while I was there, and later I'll
take the seat off and see if there's been any mouse activity there in the last
week.

FWIW, when I had a family get in the house a few years ago, I put down a collection of traps (old and new style snap traps, electronic, glue traps, and another).

Except for one that got in an electronic trap, all the other ones were caught in the glue traps (usually come in packs of 6, and pretty cheap).  Watching Youtube for advice, you put them down along the edges of the floor/walls because that's where they travel.  The downside is they are not dead, just stuck, so you have to take care of that.

Now mice have a nasty Hantavirus, a potentially life-threatening disease transmitted to humans by rodents-primarily, the white-footed deer mouse.  People become infected through exposure or inhalation of infected rodent urine, droppings or saliva, and the chances increase when people are near spaces where rodents are actively living. And they might pee out fluid in the trap, so beware.  I swept them in the traps to old coffee cans (and scrubbed up floors and hands).

https://www.amazon.com/Tomcat-Mouse-Glue-Trap-Eugenol/dp/B012VJLZOM?th=1

 

[Jess from VA]

I had a carbureted Harley for many years, with a (much) improved Mikuni HSR carburetor, and I used both the choke and the HSR enrichner, and blipped the throttle a couple times to get it started.

The problem with that bike was not cold starting, it was hot starting.  If I got caught in traffic, I liked to shut it down, but if I did, it might net restart hot easily.  After I graduated to Valkyries, I sold the old Harley.   

[Cracker Jack]

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

John, on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?  That would reduce the load on the starter from the trans gears trying to spin in the thickened oil due to the cold.  It would provide more energy to crank the engine and reduce the drain on the battery.

Don't believe pulling the choke will change anything since the clutch discs will be stuck (engaged) and the starter won't be strong enough to "jerk" the discs free. 

[Patrick]

I've started mine just like Daniel Meyer since 1998. I don't ride in real cold weather though, its always started right up.

Hmm, interesting.   I've never started any of mine other than the way Daniel said.  Tweak the choke and hit the starer.  Cold weather only.   Always cranked without an issue.  

Rams

????  I thought thats what I said.

[Cyclejohn]

I still remember when someone would ask 'the best way to start a Valkyrie' (years ago) and I would start counting cue
RJ in 3, 2, 1..."Keep your firkin' hand off of the throttle".

I would smile every time.

John

[Avanti]

This is why it is called a Fuel Enrichner not a choke. A Fuel Enrichner does not change the flow of air.

[3fan4life]

I think the manual says to NOT mess with the throttle when starting, so I never did.

Interestingly, I have a 2010 Vulcan 900 custom with FI - I start both bikes each week during the winter, and on the coldest mornings, the Valkyrie starts up MUCH easier than the Vulcan does - as long as I put it on full choke.

I saw a video last week of a guy cold starting a Valkyrie, and he did the old Harley trick of opening the throttle a few times BEFORE trying to start the bike - only this guy did it over 13 TIMES! I thought that was nuts at the time, but I know Harley guys with carbureted engines swear by the technique. Anybody else try that?

If it has been awhile since I've started one, I will open the throttle 3-4 times before I hit the starter.

As others have said it doesn't help to hit the throttle while you're trying to get it started.

Yup, messing with the throttle is nothing more than an exercise for the wrist. The carbs don't have accelerator pumps so twisting the throttle doesn't give you a shot of raw gas when trying to start, something our old carbed motors would do. I've always started in neutral without pulling in the clutch, if cold out then I might use a bit of choke and leave the throttle alone til the motor runs for a bit. Then it will usually let you add some throttle but gradual if still cold. Starting in neutral without pulling in the clutch surprised my granddaughter, she had always thought she had to leave it in gear with the clutch in. She found it actually turned over easier and faster, thus starting quicker. It got me a hug and a smooch on the cheek so was worth it. 

John, on a cold start, wouldn't it be better to pull the clutch in?  That would reduce the load on the starter from the trans gears trying to spin in the thickened oil due to the cold.  It would provide more energy to crank the engine and reduce the drain on the battery.

Don't believe pulling the choke will change anything since the clutch discs will be stuck (engaged) and the starter won't be strong enough to "jerk" the discs free. 

I've NEVER thought about pulling in the clutch for a specific reason.

I do typically pull in the clutch when I'm doing a cold start, no reason it's just a habit that I formed somewhere along the way.

I also put it into neutral, when I can find it.

[Serk]

Brief update:

After the bike was parked for the winter last week, I was kinda worried today. Now that spring is here with temps in the 60's and sunny, went to start it, but even after being parked all winter, fired right up without an issue.

[Jess from VA]

Smartass.

We may get a couple days of 50 (with clean roads).   Yaaay

[valkmc]

Brief update:

After the bike was parked for the winter last week, I was kinda worried today. Now that spring is here with temps in the 60's and sunny, went to start it, but even after being parked all winter, fired right up without an issue.

Winter is here in Ocala Florida also. 31 degrees this morning. Flipped on the choke hit the starter and she fired right up. No throttle needed.

Good news, spring will be back when I get off work 73 degrees for the ride home!

[Jess from VA]

To be fair, you guys in FL have never had to start your bikes after months of teens and twenties.   

[valkmc]

To be fair, you guys in FL have never had to start your bikes after months of teens and twenties.   

That is so true sir, however I grew up in upstate NY on the shores of lake Ontario, got my 1st bike while still in high school. Rode to work at the nuke plant for many years, lots of teens and twenties. Kind of like a badge of honor up there, don't miss it one bit. Do miss the sweet roads in and around the Adirondack Mts.  I bet there are lots of us Florida guys with a similar story.