Rebuiding the tension idlers. Problem....

[John Schmidt]

Following the instructions and also using a method I previously used, I simply can't get the old pulleys off. I had an old one in my junk box and experimented on it...to no avail. A 1/2" drill doesn't do the job in drilling out the back side so you can drive it out of the mounting bracket. In the past I've been able to use my Sawsall with a metal cutting blade and cut far enough through to just use a chisel and break it the rest of the way. Never have been able to do the job using a drill bit. I have the new pulleys, need to pick up the hardware but want to remove the old pulleys first for bolt size trial since I don't remember it from before...about 5-6 yrs. ago. On the junk idler, after drilling the back side of the pulley mount, I tried driving it out using a punch. The only success I had was bending the mounting plate so that's now ruined, glad it was an old one to experiment with. I know it's super hard metal used for the pulley shaft, it's just that nothing is coming loose like it did before. Has to be a better method, didn't really want to take it to a machine shop, called three today and they didn't really want to mess with it. What the hey...you're a machine shop, what's so unusual about this?

FWIW...the only reason I'm rebuilding(other than cost of OEM), is due to signs of lube being spun out on the back side of both pulleys. One side had substantial markings going all the way to the outer edge which would have an effect on belt life.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Do you have a Dremel or other rotary-type grinder? If you drill with the 1/2" bit and it isn't enough, you could open the hole a bit with that and it would probably be easier to drive the pin out. I was able to drill mine and the drive a heavy chisel down between the pulley and plate. They popped off without much work. I wouldn't recommend setting the plate across two stands (like pieces of wood) and trying to use a punch or a press to knock the pin through. I think that the plate would bend because the support would be too far apart. Good luck with it John.

[John Schmidt]

Yes, I have a Dremel and some grinding tips for it. I'll give it a try...and yes, the backing plate bends rather easy. Found that out with the old one I experimented with.

UPDATE; The Dremel did the trick, was able to pry it apart with a large screwdriver. I'm hopeful the second one goes easier now that I've figured it out. Seems like that's much like how I did it a few years back but don't recall for sure. I know I was able to pry them apart, don't remember how I got to that point. I'd like to use a 12mm flat head allen head bolt but would need to drill out the hole a bit in the new pulley. Don't want to mess with that so might go with something SAE that's close but doesn't require drilling out the new pulley.

[mello dude]

Following this for just because.... I was looking at the pulley mod for grins....
I'll take any old ones if someone is up to donate.....

I dont remember completely the last time I looked at it, but I think I was looking at machining new backplates based on the Honda parts.... need to jog my fading memory...

Just an experiment guys  ...

 

[luftkoph]

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/eastern-up-and-algoma-district.1172226/page-19

This is how I did it.
You’ll have to scroll down a bit

[John Schmidt]

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/eastern-up-and-algoma-district.1172226/page-19

This is how I did it.
You’ll have to scroll down a bit

I tried cutting the shaft like your picture shows, but after a few minutes with a Sawzall and also trying a hacksaw, it barely made a dent. Finally got one apart, will work on the second one today or tomorrow. It's 20 degrees in the garage right now and not predicted to be much better the next couple days so probably not until about Sunday.

[luftkoph]

Same here still lot of snow cover and cold at night, plenty of lube on the hack saw blade and a good blade helps. I might do another set for my 97 this spring when I put new belts on it.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

This was my method: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,110100.0.html

[John Schmidt]

I just finished the second pulley, went a lot easier than the first one...no experimenting. I used the same bolts as in the past...flathead hex drive, 10mm, grade 10.9 which is comparable to grade 8. Same for the nuts and lock washers. Used some blue Loktite and torqued to 30 ft. lbs. Then to satisfy myself a bit more, when I've done this mod in the past and once assembled, I use a small square I have with a bubble in it. Bubble isn't of use here but the square is...I set it on the backing plate and slowly rotate the pulley to be certain it remains at 90 degrees throughout. I haven't installed the second one yet, just got too cold for these old bones. Predicted temps for Sunday through Wednesday are 40s & 50s. good temps for working in the garage.

[mello dude]

Following this for just because.... I was looking at the pulley mod for grins....
I'll take any old ones if someone is up to donate.....

I dont remember completely the last time I looked at it, but I think I was looking at machining new backplates based on the Honda parts.... need to jog my fading memory...

Just an experiment guys  ...

 

Kinda remembering what I wanted to  do.....
Thinking I could laser cut out new backplate
 from stainless.....if I had a sample to get a pattern......could run a batch if there was interest...

[John Schmidt]

Following this for just because.... I was looking at the pulley mod for grins....
I'll take any old ones if someone is up to donate.....

I dont remember completely the last time I looked at it, but I think I was looking at machining new backplates based on the Honda parts.... need to jog my fading memory...

Just an experiment guys  ...

 

Kinda remembering what I wanted to  do.....
Thinking I could laser cut out new backplate
 from stainless.....if I had a sample to get a pattern......could run a batch if there was interest...

I can send you the old one I experimented with, it has a slight bend but could be flattened out. The pulley is off so easy to work with, just PM me an address if you want it.

[mello dude]

Following this for just because.... I was looking at the pulley mod for grins....
I'll take any old ones if someone is up to donate.....

I dont remember completely the last time I looked at it, but I think I was looking at machining new backplates based on the Honda parts.... need to jog my fading memory...

Just an experiment guys  ...

 

Kinda remembering what I wanted to  do.....
Thinking I could laser cut out new backplate
 from stainless.....if I had a sample to get a pattern......could run a batch if there was interest...

I can send you the old one I experimented with, it has a slight bend but could be flattened out. The pulley is off so easy to work with, just PM me an address if you want it.

OK I'm up for that 

[luftkoph]

I’d be interested in those brackets also

[JimC]

Count me in also. If you can't get it done let me know, my son in law has a lazer and a water jet.

Jim

[mello dude]

I'll take a look at this thing,  and see how it goes...I make a few Lazer cut aluminum pieces for VFRs that have worked out well.
Typically onesies of anything is a bit pricey, (CAD work, setup and material)...so I try to make a batches of anything to drive piece price down...
Cheers  

[mello dude]

Got some parts today to work with...
Plate from John.... Thanks!


Bought a Bearing from Amazon...

[mello dude]

So.... a few questions for the peanut gallery.... your input is appreciated....
 
--- Do those 3 holes triangled around the the large hole do anything? Looks like not....
--- I am thinking to replace the large chamfered hole with a precision 10mm clearance hole so... a 10mm flange bolt could be used....
 It would look close to this, the plate is the correct thickness. . ---just some loose 3/16 inch aluminum I had laying around...drilled a hole in...
Some figuring pictures..






I asked John if there would be clearance behind the plate for a Flange hex head and he says yes...
Does everyone agree on that? It makes the design much simpler...
(I am a bit gobsmacked at the low level of precision on this piece from Honda for such a critical part.)

Then last question.....
Just checking --- I am not taking my own bike apart to take a look at this... I did check the manual..
The tensioner is not active after torqing the 8 mm flange bolts down on the tensioner - correct?
-- Not really an "active" tensioner.... the spring provides the initial tension on the pulley, but once torqued is moot?

Thanks for your input guys.... this looks like an easy job...  

[luftkoph]

I used a hex head bolt, plenty of clearance

[luftkoph]

The service manual states to check tension, put 2kg (4.4 lbs} of pressure in the middle of the long run of the belt and deflection should be 5-7 mm, what exactly the springs do, I don’t know.

[Avanti]

Your pushing the 2 kg against the spring tension.

[luftkoph]

 

[RonW]

I've followed other members' advice on letting the spring set the belt's deflection. Then add a smidgen more deflection because the spring might have lost some of its spring. A new belt gets slightly more pliable also. Beats tossing and turning all night long or investing in a dedicated belt tensioner gauge. Just checked and new springs are $2.86. I do have a luggage scale but it doesn't pull in a straight line.

[mello dude]

I've followed other members' advice on letting the spring set the belt's deflection. Then add a smidgen more deflection because the spring might have lost some of its spring. A new belt gets slightly more pliable also. Beats tossing and turning all night long or investing in a dedicated belt tensioner gauge. Just checked and new springs are $2.86. I do have a luggage scale but it doesn't pull in a straight line.

I think when its my turn, I'll just get new springs anyhoo....

[-mike-]

I have a tensioner gauge and used it on my Valk just to verify an old mechs tip that was given to me some decades ago:

Tension is right when you can twist the belt on the longest free length for a quarter turn with your fingers without brute force.
(like "fingertight" at oil filter)

-mike-

[mello dude]

For Reference...
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,121231.msg1235776.html#msg1235776

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,121914.0.html